[Shoshana]

Red: I do not disagree with you. There are adoptees who literally view adoption as a non-issue. There are adoptees who keep silent for fear of hurting parents. There are adoptees who broach the subject and perhaps even search. I do understand that there is no universal adoptee "style." However, I do believe that adoptees share a common experience that is unique to them and different from the experiences of non-adopted persons.

You argue that the lack of communication within a family is unrelated to adoption and is indicative of the individuals' personal style instead. But what IF the troubling or disconcerting topic IS the adoption itself? Wouldn't it be likely that the adoption topic would have an impact on the communication style above and beyond the family's natural inclinications?

[mallow]

Soon to be mom~You took the words right out of my head!

Cleopatrick~Wow! I think you really hit the nail on the head with that post.

I agree that on the whole, most of the responses here have been respectful and educational. However, here it is again that aparents feel like they have to walk on eggshells when they post for fear conflict and argument. Forgetting everything else for a second, let me ask bparents a question. Do you feel like that on the birthparent section of the forum? Just wondering. Now, I am not saying that adoptees and bparents shouldn't post on this section of the forum. As a soon to be adoptive parent, I need and want to learn from all parts of the triad for the best interests of my boys. Having said that, I'd like to say that this IS the part of the section for aparents to seek support, vent about problems, and learn. This does not give carte blanche for aparents to post truly ignorant or rude comments out of malice. Yet, in the same vein, bparents do not have the right to be rude or ignorant to aparents.

Christine~I noticed your signature and I understand that you're hurting.But,let me turn your question to the original poster around. Does spreading your hurt and pain make you feel better? Try reaching out for support instead.

Becky

[dkb60]

Originally Posted by Missourimomtobe

The term "mom" is incredibly precious to me after 17 years of infertility, I suppose that's why the entire naming issue is a hurdle for me.

And as a birthmom, first mom (I don't really care what you call me), I find it incredibly precious that after 24 years, my adult birthdaughter found me and allows me to do some of those things in her life that fall under the "mom" role. I have replaced no one. Maybe she is just smart enough to know 2 moms might be better than one when it comes to cooking and cleaning.


While titles may be confusing for younger children, it is still the relationship that is the important thing. Some one once said to me that if a Mother can love more than one child why can't a child love more than one mother.

I know this does not address directly Namaste's feeling but I just want to weigh in on the fact that relationships and titles are always evolving.

D.

[redhedded]

Absolutely it would Elizabeth, and I suspect in many families THAT is the case; the adoption itself and the insecurities of parents and issues surrounding their motivations for adoption dictate the way in which they interact with their children and the subtle messages that they send. I do not mean to suggest that adoption is not relevant to the communication style that is created; it is at minimum another layer. However, I think that within adoptive families, like non adoptive families, issues and facts of life do not dictate their communication style but rather the issues are affected by the way that they choose to address subjects and arising concerns, the way in which parents seek to include their children in the family dialogue or what they in general expect from their children.

In fact, I might argue that a similar familial dynamic occurred within my very dearest friends household, that his being gay, changed how the family interacted and tiptoed around their thoughts and expressions. The fact is, it is not true. They tiptoed, and he protected their feelings not because of the experience but because of their long proven history of an inability to cope with, discuss and open themselves up to his viewpoint. In his case, it was the communication style (and their judgment of him) that took him years to come to terms with; ultimately he severed all ties with them. It was through him, such a strong, enlightened and magical soul, that I learned that family has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with love, support and acceptance. He found his family in the community of like minded souls, in his circle of friends, and they gave him much more than those who have him his genes.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

nmbr1bcksfan:
I normally like to read your posts and get your insight. I think you jumped to fast on this one. This is a fairly new member and she doesnt know your story or that you are a bmom. Just to come in say that she kicked when you were down probably confused her to what you meant. When she asked if she missed something you just said,"guess you did" She was really wondering what she was missing.

OK... this is the only part that I will touch. My first post was deleted.... it referenced a line from the first post that was regarding reputation.... it basically said that I was offended by that line...but not the post. Well the original post was edited...and then that first response was deleted.

I was actually offended by the response to the post...not the original post. So the "guess you did" should not have been to MO mom. Sorry about that. I will note though, that there are plenty of threads that we have talked about this in civilized ways...this thread HAS gone that way. Again, it was the hostile response to the first post that I was offended by.

I would like to thank everyone for their feedback though...and just to ease your minds... Yes, I am fully aware that everything is not about me.

Christine

[Kmac]

Each case is different. How can we generalize about what the relationship (and hence, the name) should be among adoptive parents and birthparents with their children? The relationships grow out of the actions of the people involved.

I love reading the posts from birthmothers on these forums because it opens my eyes to their perspectives. It's hard, as a woman who lost all her pregnancies, for me to set aside my own grief and, yes, envy to understand that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side.

Unfortunately, there are birthmothers out there who aren't so sensitive, articulate or involved. They have substance abuse problems, or other problems so profound they simply can't care for a child. My mentor works for social services here in NYC and can tell you horror stories. To assume that every woman who places a child for adoption wants or deserves the title "mother" is based on our lifestyles and attitudes, not the reality.

This does not mean that a child does not have a biological mother. But the reality is, he or she may never meet her, or even hear from her.

Also, from the experts I've spoken to, having two sets of parents can confuse a child--whether through adoption or divorce. Rebellion is a natural part of growing up. An adopted child, like any child, will strain against the limits his parents have lovingly set. It can be confusing to think there is another set of parents out there who would be more fun to live with.

My sense is we're all involved in this philosophical debate about what to call birthmothers vs adoptive mothers as a way to work out our own issues--great. But in practice I think it really depends. If it helps the child feel safe and loved to do it one way, great. If it causes rifts or confusion, not so great.

[antifloyd]

Originally Posted by mallow

However, here it is again that aparents feel like they have to walk on eggshells when they post for fear conflict and argument. Forgetting everything else for a second, let me ask bparents a question. Do you feel like that on the birthparent section of the forum? Becky

Yes, sometimes! And not just when an aparent or paparent has posted in the bparent board, either. I sometimes feel I am in the minority as a bmom who DOESN'T hate adoption and who doesn't feel like I was forced into making a bad choice.
We're all human, and dealing with emotionally-charged issues does not always bring out the best in any of us!

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Christine~I noticed your signature and I understand that you're hurting.But,let me turn your question to the original poster around. Does spreading your hurt and pain make you feel better? Try reaching out for support instead.

Well now that is a whole other can. Does it make me feel better in what sense?? Does it make me feel better to spread the reality of things and not the fairytale?? Yes, actually it does. Does it make me feel better to make people aware of what is going on outside of the bubble??? Yes, it does. Does it make me feel better when I get "thank you's" from others who are hurt but cant say what I did? Yes, it does.

But I guess to get to the nitty gritty... what exactly are you saying? I think that reaching out is just what I have been doing lately. How exactly have I been spreading my hurt and pain?? Just so I know what I am responding to... is there an example?

I dont go around starting threads that are crazy. I have friends from all sides and I think I try to support all sides. I am in no way limited to 'my' pain. Or even 'birthparent's' pain. And actually... I am very sorry that you feel that way.

Christine

[numbr1dbcksfan]

I was emailing with my birthdaughter's mother over the last week and I thought she said it well right here...so I will share it with you as my input...

Don't say I am the mother that you weren't. You are the ultimate mother by making this extremely difficult decision at that time in your life. You ARE a mother to her in many ways. I know you care for her and pray for her everyday. You will know her again I hope in the future. That is probably the most difficult part of adoption for me....knowing I am not her only mother and never will be. But that is okay because no one owns another person. She is lucky to have many people who love and care for her.

[spaypets]

Getting back to the original question...I guess I'm not sure why there's an issue at all. In an open adoption what the bparents get called is something that gets agreed on, just like what the grandparents get called. Sometimes it's a negotiation (my parents specifically requested grandma and grandpa even though my brother's kids call them something else, which they don't like). Sometimes everyone agrees all at once.

I wouldn't have agreed to having the bparents be called Mommy X and Daddy Y anymore than I was willing to have my mother Grandma S and my mil Grandma M (instead she's Grandmom). I would have wanted unique names--Maybe Eema and Abba --the Hebrew names for mother and father. As it is, because we adopted from India and don't know my dd's parents names, we refer to them as Aye and Baba, the Marathi words for mother and father.

But it seems to me, like all things in an open adoption, you talk to the bparents and you work it out.

[tlc4kidz]

MOmom,
The other thread you originally were referring to was one in which I posted we are using "momma *" and "daddy *". It works for us. I think you might never know what you will do until you sit across from your child's birthmom and see the pain in her eyes and share some real tears. I think when she tells you all of her hopes and fears and dreams for her child and how she 100% trusts the job you will do in raising him/her all of those thoughts you have now will change.....at least they did for me. In one of our recent conversations we were talking about how the kids wouldn't have life without her and bdad. She said to me "and they wouldn't have the life they do without you....you are their mom and dad."

As far as the open adoption thing goes....that also works for us. Is it easy? NO. Would I walk across crushed glass through fire if it would benefit my children? ABSOLUTELY. And (if I may) speak for a birthparent....it's not necessarily the easiest thing for them either. At least that's what I've been told. But the research is pretty clear that it's a positive thing for the children. Thank you for coming here and being willing to ask. Please remember that along your journey your heart will be changed in ways that even you never thought possible.....or at least I hope so.

[icunurse]

I think all of us welcome and encourage all members of the triad to give their opinions and share their experiences. Honestly, to my knowledge, I haven't met another bmom other than my son's, so I appreciate it when a bmom gives me her opinion or shares her thoughts. I know a couple of adoptees, but I want to understand more about their feelings and experiences, as I hope that it will make me more sensitive to my son's needs as he grows older. But it's all about respect between everyone. It's called a triad for a reason and we all have to work together (at least somewhat) if we want adoption to work or change. One harsh or overly critical comment may offend or scare away one poster, but how many lurkers are getting the wrong idea? I think that we'd all agree that there are already so many stereotypes about adoptees, aparents, and bparents that we don't need to feed into them. I don't think anyone is asking someone else not to be honest or for everyone to have the same views, but as we have probably all heard from a parent or teacher "it's not what you say, it's how you say it".

[redhedded]

Spay, We use Oma and Opa (german) and Ya and Boo (thai); of course, my husband is fond of encouraging our dd to yell "boo ya!" aloud when her grandparents arrive, especially in public.

[NaomiNJaysmom]

Originally Posted by icunurse

"it's not what you say, it's how you say it".

in my daughters favorite words.....

"Can I get a BOOOOYAAAAA!!!!!!!"
(kimpossible)

[redhedded]

dana aka tlc, Research can be skewed to prove anything. I do not agree that open adoption is right for every child any more than I believe my dd has to eat meat in order to be nutritionally sound and healthy.