[NaomiNJaysmom]

I have to admit as a newbie I don't post questions because of all the bickering that goes on here. SOMEONE IS ALWAYS WRONG!!! It's ridiculous. The fact of it is just this..... the thread is Adoptive parent SUPPORT. Support being the key word! If you are a birth parent and choose to respond to this thread to be helpful or educational then great but if not you should really keep that to yourself. I feel it is only right for adoptive parents to have a place they feel safe to ask questions just as birth moms should have a place to discuss what ever they would like. Lets all stop being against each other and come together to help people on their journeys what ever direction they may be. A unity is better for our children as a whole. Please be kind to one another.
Blessings ~Amy

[Shoshana]

Adoption is about the good of the child. I have seen the vast majority of the posts on this thread as informative and respectful. The overwhelming majority of the posters on this thread have been A-PARENTS, not b-parents, not adoptees.

Seems like any time someone posts a controversial or 'touchy' question, the exhortations to silence the b-parents for the protection of the a-parents takes on yet another life.

If a-parents are too uncomfortable (a euphemism?) to post on this thread - which involves no flaming or name calling, then perhaps the a-parents might consider resorting to private communication only. How in the world will a-parents be able to truly understand an adoptee's experience and feelings if the other members of the triad are not allowed to participate. With all due respect, Amy, you suggest that the b-parents not respond, and then you call for unity. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Who has been unkind on this thread? Perhaps I just am incapable of seeing it. Oh, Christine. But can't we support her in her pain? Can't we understand that saying something to the effect of "relinquishing a child for adoption means relinquishing the right to be called a mother?" would be very hurtful? Can't we understand that SHE might be struggling more right now? What about supporting her instead of lashing out at her. Missourimom2be seems to be a strong and intelligent woman. She isn't crying. She certainly does not sound weak and unable to carry on a rational discussion.

IF a-parents & b-parents truly want to do what is best for the adoptee, then people need to be willing to not only speak respectfully (which the vast majority have here) but people need to be willing to LISTEN without casting aspersions when the perspectives offered are different than what one might want to hear.

The discussion about the definition of support has occurred ad nauseum on this forum. Support does not mean, to this rational mind and to many others here, a blind acceptance of another's perspective.

Just frustrated - again - but because of the continued division within the triad at the expense of the adoptee. Just frustrated because of the continued calls for support at the expense of participation by ALL.

[NaomiNJaysmom]

With all due respect, Naomi, you suggest that the b-parents not respond,

Elizabeth,
I believe what I said is if it was not educational or helpful not to respond. But as usual someone here is wrong. So tired of reading about people having to defend themselves.

[Shoshana]

But perhaps they ARE trying to be educational and helpful by sharing their experiences and perspectives.

Honestly, I do not see where a single poster said that Missourimom2be was wrong for her feelings.

[AMom2Two]

I had the same discussion with a group of adoptee's on this board earlier this week. I read where they want to call their bparents Mom and Dad and it felt like a knife thru my heart. My first reaction was like your's. Then I opened my heart to what they were saying.

I asked myself, would I want to take away the joy my children's bparents would feel from hearing those words and I thought, no, I wouldn't want to take away their joy. I asked that and was quickly asked back, what about the adoptee. You talk about the bparent but what about the adoptee????

I was surprised when quite a few bmom's replied and said they have told their adopted children not to call them Mom and Dad because it would have been disrespectful to us. I was humbled then I learned more.

When an adoptee is older and if they should wish to call their bparents Mom and Dad, it is not out of disrespect for us or wanting to replace us but simply that they feel a need to be closer to their bparents. The adoptee has a need to feel like they are a part of them. Calling them Mom and Dad allows them to feel "special" to these people that created them. Not everyone can have that title. It has to do with something the adoptee needed, not the bmom, not the amom, but the adoptee.

Our children are young and I am teaching them to call their bparents by their first name. If and when they should choose to call them Mom and Dad is their choice, not mine. I cannot take away their freedom to move around in these relationships as they want to.

Another bmom also posted that she felt it was wrong for the bmom to tell the child to call them Mom or Dad, it has to come from the adoptee and only the adoptee. I was touched by her thoughtfulness to us and I am sure, many feel that way. I know my daughters bmom would not even call our daughter, her daughter. She told me she gave up that right. I told she did not. She will always have a daughter. That is true.

I hope I have made sense. For now my children's bparents are known as their bparents or their first name. In time, this may change but if it does, I wouldn't feel like a knife has been put thru my heart because I understand that it is what the adoptee needs, not her bmom, not me, simply them. I have learned. You will learn a lot by being here. I wish you the best.

Hugs,

[Soon2BMom103]

Elizabeth, I think you misunderstood Amy, and I think Amy has a point.

Let me add that I DO NOT believe that birth parents should not respond, but I do believe that ANY responses (whether birth parents or adoptive parents) should be constructive.

And Elizabeth, yes, there have been non-constructive, uneducational, and somewhat hostile responses. For example numbrldbcksfan and scmennaleigh. And I am NOT making personal attacks. I am simply pointing out that their replies were not educational. That is why Leigh131313 replied for more kinder responses.

I would love to read birth mother responses that are educational, and I saw that a few have posted = Thank you! This helps me get over my fear of adoption and maybe I can bring my husband around.

One poster mentioned that we are forgetting the adoptee. How true! I think it should be up to the adoptee to decide what she/he wants to call their birth mom/dad and adoptive mom/dad. Thanks to that poster for bringing this to light!

[Cleopatrick]

I think that the word "mom" takes on almost mythical proportions to amoms who've been struggling with infertility and waiting for what seems like forever for adoptions.

You start out as wanting to be a mom. You spend one year trying to get pregnant before a fertility specialist will even see you. You spend however many months trying to figure out what specifically is wrong. If you're lucky they can figure it out, in my case we have no answer (which matters not one iota to me now, but at the time was devastating). You may or may not decide to pay the expense of fertility treatments, if you do you may spend a few years and tens of thousands of dollars to get pregnant. We tried it once, but I think most people try at least several times. Then you write to the adoption agencies to get more information and you come to the dawning realization that adoption is expensive and the waiting lists are long. We were lucky, we had decided to just keep going with foster care and see what happened but a friend of friend of a friend found us and asked us to adopt her little boy. That doesn't happen to many people, so you wait a year or more for a match and when you are matched the stress is only starting. While you are waiting for a match there are social workers digging into every aspect of your life trying to decide if you deserve to be a mother or not. Once you are matched, every well meaning person in your life will say to you "Hope she doesn't change her mind". To me, this is the equivalent of telling a pregnant woman "Hope you don't have a miscarriage". Then after years and tens of thousands of dollars this baby is born and you wait for finalization for up to a year and the whole time there is part of you that feels like you are lying when you say "Yes, I'm his mom" and there is part of you that knows, despite how illogical it is, that someone is going to come in one day and say "Sorry, you can't have him, you're not his mom". One day the adoption is final and you spend the rest of his life hearing about how you are not his real mom, or people asking you who his real mom is, and at every turn someone is making you feel like you are not enough. At the end of the day you are no longer hoping to be a mom, you want to be THE MOM!

If you're lucky, at some point you realize that it's okay, you are the mom and you don't have do be THE MOM! You calm down, relax, and are suddenly more easy around the bmom if you have an open adoption or the rest of the world whether your adoption is open or not.

At this point in my life when someone asks me "Where is his real mom" I no longer feel like they are challenging my right to be mom, nor do I feel like they are implying that I'm not mom, nor do I feel like I'm going to cry because I'm the little nothing that is raising these children. It normal and it's acceptable in the beggining, but if you don't grow out of it you are going to hurt your child. Before they know what adoption is, you have to have your mind in the right place or you will cause damage because your attitude shows through. My dawning realization came when my son was almost 4 and my daughters (both adopted through DSS at 8 and 2) were 9 and 3. In one shot we opened up all of our previously closed adoptions and other than some minor gliches, I've never regretted it.

[Cleopatrick]

As if I haven't already opened my big mouth and said enough, here's more.

I think doing foster care gives you a reality check as far as the word mom goes. You take in a foster child but no matter how much you love them, or how many times they call you mom, you're not. From a legal standpoint you are a glorified babysitter. When it comes to making decisions for foster kids a lot of people can make them, but you're not one of them. Want to give them pbj for lunch - great, want to get their haircut - ask their bparents. Want to take them to the doctor for bronchitits - great, want to get that hernia fixed - fill out all the forms in triplicate and wait for permission. It's not uncommon for a foster child to say to you "Mom, when can I see my mom again". Sort of forces those rose colored glasses off, lol.

[Missourimomtobe]

Cleopatrick! You hit - on the nail - every thought I have had in my head on this topic. Thank you, thank you, thank you - for not just seeing my viewpoint, but recognizing my fears about adoption coupled with pain about not being a biological mother. The term "mom" is incredibly precious to me after 17 years of infertility, I suppose that's why the entire naming issue is a hurdle for me.

Namaste,

[redhedded]

Missourimom, Naming is also paramount to me, and I have never struggled with infertility. I chose adoption first and NEVER wanted to give birth. I am not interested in being THE MOM, and my children have MANY in their lives who love them deeply and unconditionally. I am secure and confident in my role and think that they can never have too many who love them. I am never rattled by anyone asking about their "real mom." Having said that, I understand, and sympathize with your position.

It is important to remember that there are many views and experiences here, adoptees are no different. While I am not one, my very closest friends are. They DO NOT consider or call anyone "mama" or mom other than the women who raised them. They are not in denial or walking a fine line in an effort to placate all. Some sought out reunion, several did not and have no interest; each was raised in a closed adoption and is happy, secure and well adjusted. My husband is one such 1/2 adoptee.

[Shoshana]

Cleo wrote ""Where is his real mom" I no longer feel like they are challenging my right to be mom, nor do I feel like they are implying that I'm not mom, nor do I feel like I'm going to cry because I'm the little nothing that is raising these children. It normal and it's acceptable in the beggining, but if you don't grow out of it you are going to hurt your child. Before they know what adoption is, you have to have your mind in the right place or you will cause damage because your attitude shows through."

Christianask wrote something very similar on page 2 of this thread. I'm glad Cleo and Christina responded because I was trying to say the same thing, but not as clearly or directly.

Kids are a lot more perceptive and intuitive than we give them credit for. In no way do I mean this as a criticism of adoptive parents (I'm one too) but it is SO very, very important that these issues get resolved fairly quickly in the adoption process. Kids learn about adoption at a very young age --- and they hear the tone of voice, the silent loss of the a-parents who've struggled with infertility, and they do sense the discomfort.

That's why adoptees grow to be so protective of their parents. That's why they learn to keep their questions to themselves. Because they have learned that broaching the topic has consequences for their parents. When a-parents can truly accept and understand that --nothing-- diminishes their role as a parent, that --nothing-- can erase a child's history with his/her family, that a child can love many people without detracting from the love felt for her parents - then adoption and infertility and titles lose their power to cause the a-parents pain, and the adoptee can freely seek the a-parents support.

My purpose in responding to this thread (and others like it) is NOT to criticize or diminish anyone's feelings, but to help people understand the consequences to the adoptee of those feelings.

[redhedded]

Elizabeth, While I respect your experience and willingness to share it immensely, I know many many people who are hesitant, who keep their questions to themselves, who spend a lifetime afraid to broach subjects with their parents, fearful of disappointing them or losing their love; not a single one of these persons was adopted. While I understand fully the impact that the expression of adoption and openness within a family can have on a child's psyche and that such hesitations may not be universal but surround only adoption issues within certain families, I might argue that these dynamics are much more about a family's expression, communication style, acceptance, willingness to appreciate everyone's feelings and input rather than being about adoption.

[Cheryl62]

Another adoptee weighing in, if I may?

I'm an adult adoptee from the closed era. I call my birthmom by her first name, mostly because I don't know her very well yet, so "mom" seems too familiar, I suppose, but, to be honest, I think there's also a very large part of me that feels like it would be disloyal to my Mom to use that title. I'm not saying I necessarily SHOULD feel that way, but I have a feeling a part of me does (maybe partially because I know how she's struggling with her own fears about this reunion?).

But I also think my experience is entirely different from what an open adoption entails too - in that there wouldn't be that "stranger-ness" to it all. I have no idea if my feelings will change over time, if/when we know each other better. But my Mom will always be my Mom, no matter what I may happen. My feelings for "S" as they are now, or may develop over time, to me at least, are really entirely separate from my relationship with my Mom.

I find feeling "in the middle" (even if I'm the one putting myself there emotionally) difficult. I feel for the a-moms here - because I love my Mom, and know how hard this was/is for her. And I feel for the birthmoms, because I've spent a large part of the last year reading their stories and trying to understand everything that my birthmother may have gone through or felt. And then I have my own roles - as mom and step-mom, which obviously play a huge part in how I perceive things.

These threads that start to feel as if birthmoms and a-moms are being attacked are painful for me, probably because it just brings up how painful adoption itself is. (Not that it's a bad thing - please don't misunderstand - my life is wonderful, and my parents are terrific - I can't imagine having had a different life, and don't spend time trying to imagine it.) I mean the pain of mothers giving up the opportunity to raise babies they love, the pain of couples struggling with infertility or fears of not being a "real mom" (my mom is plenty "real" to me, for what it's worth!), and, yes, the pain of an adoptee wanting to know their history, wanting to understand why, and sometimes, for some of us, wanting to take away the pain of our two mothers (birthmother and Mom) who mean so much to us, in different ways.

I hope I see both sides - I try to anyway - but I do sometimes get the feeling that the impact of these decisions or discussions on the adoptees is not given enough focus, so I am glad to see it being raised and discussed here. We can only benefit from questioning, gaining support, seeking to understand, and reflecting -- hopefully in an environment where we try to build each other up, and respond sensitively to the very real doubts, fears, pains, and difficulties we're all affected by, or have gone through. I'm glad we have this forum for that.

[mlbsands]

Just some additional thoughts.. I am my son's mom and yes he did come to me thru adoption.. When I talk about his birthmom "J" and birthdad "B" that is how I refere to them at first.. Then I just use there first names after people know who I am talking about. This is a very open adoption and we talk often.. they are also ok with this.

We all agreed TOGETHER who our son would call all for of us.. so my point is that I think this is up to each set of people to come up with on a case by case basis... and in the event of an open adoption, this can be something that is discussed prior to the match..

In our case.. we have all agreed that our son will know he is adopted.. and he will know about "J" and "B" as he grows up.. BUT he will not know that they are his bio parents unless HE decides he wants to.. This was actually what his bio parents wanted and we agreed to.

Once he decides he wants to know them it will be HIS choice what to call them, not ours..

Now.. in our case.. we some very special family friends and thier kids call us "Aunt Mandy" and "Uncle Dan" even though we are not related to them.. and when we talk about these special friends we call them "Aunt/Uncle...".. so for now.. that is how we also refer to his bio parents in front of him.. or when they call .. when they speak to him they call themselves "Aunt J and Uncle B".. he is only 6 months old now.. so he does not really know what is going on.. but in time he will know that J and B are 2 very special people in his life and that they are "family" no matter what.

I know that this is not a perfect solution for everyone.. but it is a perfect soluton for US (meaning all 4 of us)..

That said.. work together to decide what works for all of you and then do what you agreed to.. if someone else does not "agree" with it.. be respectful, but let them know this was a joint decision and move on.

Mandy

[Cheryl62]

Elizabeth - we were posting at the same time, and as usual, you said this better than I could!