[missingmyboy]

Wow! I will leave this one for tomorrow night when I have some energy to do it justice. In the mean time I wanted to say thank you Jen for your first post on this thread. You are a truely respectful amom who gets it! I love you Jen!

Jenna, you said it exactly! I love that line.

Shell

[Missourimomtobe]

Thanks to all of you for the posts - it is very interesting to hear all the perspectives. And for those of you that felt I was harsh, as I said in my original post, my intent was not to hurt anyone's feelings. But this IS the adoptive parents support board, so I feel my post was appropriate for this area.

I do indeed have some issues to work through on this (as anyone new to the adoption process does!) and I imagine I will work through them with both your help and our social worker ... the whole point of this forum is to be able to ask questions, voice opinions and share frustrations without being fearful of someone getting upset.

What's also interesting to me is the number of PRIVATE emails and messages I receive from others who lurk on this board and are absolutely unwilling to ask their questions or post their comments on here because of the fervent responses they receive when they dare to disagree with birthparents or question open adoption and its merits.

I very much appreciate Leigh131313's comments - this forum is to educate. I am very grateful to anyone who answers me or others on this board in that spirit.
Namaste,

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by Missourimomtobe

But this IS the adoptive parents support board, so I feel my post was appropriate for this area.

Do note that boards are not restricted. You will find all members of the triad on every board.

Best of luck.

[dadfor2]

i know quite a few adoptees, and they have told me that they knew who their 'mom' was...

it was also important to them to know who their bmom was.

basically, we all have feelings around this...great post jen by the way...

but it all comes down to the children.

older adoption is different then infant..so i cant comment on that.

we did older....i wanted to be called daddy.....however, when i met my kids, i called myself by my first name.

they also called me by my first name....

i will accept that....i was also prepared that they my never view me as 'their parents'

well, guess what....whos 'daddy'......they did that on their on......its what they wanted.

i think sometimes we have to put away our own feelings, which i know is hard, and have some faith in our kids that they know the difference between amom and bmom and what roles we all play.

dadfor2

[LisaCA]

hi,

here's how we view it: our daughter has a bfamily that is now part of our family, period. Bgrandma is grandma, baunt is auntie, etc. bmom is slightly different however, since we first thought we'd call her by her first name (that's what she initially expressed as her desire). Now we're thinking, we give an honorific title that explains things to all the other parts of bfamily, so we feel we need to decide what to call bmom. What we will do is present a number of options to bmom and ask her what she thinks (the only reason that we'll give her options is that she's way too young to be privy to all the options and issues). she doesn't want to be called mom, however (she thinks that's my spot), but she does want dd to acknowledge her. I don't know if I'm being clear here, but we're still thinking it thru (dd is only 6 months). we think we'll ask her if bema is okay, so we can call her "bema XXX). We have a hard time asking dd to call someone older by their first name (respect issues, we're old fashioned).

and we were a bit freaked out about open adoption initially, and ended up including bmom's name on our announcements, so who knows where you end up on this journey!

I do know that dd's bmom loves her as does her bfamily and we really want to embrace that love. It doesn't mean I'm not her mom or that i'm sharing that space. I'm just acknowledging all the others in her life too. the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned!

LisaCA

[Itcha]

Wait!!!! MO. mom was asking a question and voicing her opinion! She does have that right-and in my opinion, some of the things that she was voicing were legitimate concern that parents have. I don't think these concerns have to do with being insecure, they have to do with boundaries.

What I got was she was voicing her opinion and although some may NOT like what she has to say she, to me, was not bashing anyone and has a right to ask!!!

[Shoshana]

Someone just responded to your 'Dear birthmother letter' on another thread. In the closing paragraph you wrote,

"The child we are waiting for is one that will always have TWO "real" families: one by birth and one by adoption."

I think that is the answer to your question - Adoptees have two 'real' mothers and fathers. And I wholeheartedly agree with Jensboys - adoption is NOT a one time occurence for the adoptee - it lasts a lifetime.

A child can have two aunts without anyone wondering about confusion or importance, or the meaning of the role each fulfills in the child's life. No one expects two aunts to fill identical roles.

As an adoptee, it distresses me to hear --either-- birth parents or a-parents assert their authority about which one is more 'real' or more 'important.' The fact is that a-parents likely love an adopted child no differently than a bio child and an a-child knows who "mommy" and "daddy" are from a very young age. However, they also know at a young age that they have --other-- parents - and those parents are 'real' too.

You know, when I first began my search for my bio family at the age of 18, I had a lot of anger. I'd spent years walking on egg shells so that I wouldn't hurt my a-parents feelings. I didn't want them to even wonder if I might leave them for my 'other' mother. I didn't want them to know how badly I needed to know my history. I didn't want them to feel insecure about my love for them. So I didn't share my feelings with them. I was angry that my history was forbidden to my by the law. I used to say things like, "My birth mother gave up the right to anonymity when she relinquished me for adoption." That sounds so similar to your sentence about "giving up" the right to be called a mom. My statement came from my fear and anger and insecurity. It came from --my-- need to assert the primacy of --my-- rights. It negated and minimized any rights my birth mother might have had. That statement made it easier for me to justify my actions. Fortunately, after being successful in my search, and welcomed by my birth mother, the anger dissipated.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but I just wanted to add one further comment. You also wrote,

"What's also interesting to me is the number of PRIVATE emails and messages I receive from others who lurk on this board and are absolutely unwilling to ask their questions or post their comments on here because of the fervent responses they receive when they dare to disagree with birthparents or question open adoption and its merits."

I find this sad. There are plenty of a-parents here who are very supportive of adoptee rights and of open adoption. From what you've written, it seems as if some people believe there is some sort of a "birthparent agenda." I can completely understand the ferver birthparents might express and as long as the words are respectful, would we expect any less? I've also seen many passionate responses from the adult adoptees on this site. Funny, people aren't as willing to single us out for criticism.

[wanttobeparents]

Missourimomtobe,

As an adoptive mom, I call myself that only when there is a need to clarify, such as on this forum. I am mom to my boys.

But there are two other ladies out there that are also mom. They don't get the fringe benefits that I do: the heavy head asleep on your shoulder, the small hand in yours, the sloppy kisses, and yes, even the lovingly presented bugger from a freshly wiped nose. Why should it bother me that they are also mom?

My children have grandparents from me and from my husband. The love they have for them does not take anything away from me. The love they have for them does not take anything away from each other. They also have grandparents on the birthfamily's side. They love them and it take nothing away from the other grandparents.

My 4 year old loves many people and tells me often that he loves them. He also loves my 1 year old's birthparents. The more people a child loves, the more people they can love. But you aren't talking about love, you are talking about the titles of Mom and Dad.

I'm one of those that feels that calling the birth parents by their first names does not give them enough credit for all they have been through. The other family members are aunts, uncles and grandparents. But they are simply "L" and "K". They went through months of worry, "L" went through the pain of childbirth, they went through the devastation of relinquishment, and they go through the continual heart wrenching pain of knowing that their child is being raised by someone else. They did what they felt was best for my youngest boy. They ARE parents.

When my oldest came home at 4 weeks, I was so worried that I wouldn't be a good mother. He had major birth defects and spent a lot of time back and forth in the hospital. I wanted the title "Mom" in the worst way. I felt I had to earn it. I needed to be the best at everything, I needed to fight for him until he was strong enough to fight for himself. I waited and waited to hear the words "Mommy" from his mouth. "Dada" came early. Mommy was a long time in coming. The niece asked about his "real mother". Strangers asked if "his mother gave him away because of his defects." I felt less and less like Mom. Valentine's day came when he was 15 months old, and he was getting "I love you" out, but only to Daddy. Finally in the grocery store, the words I had longed to hear came. He threw his arms around me and said, "I love you, Daddy!" And you know, it didn't make a bit of difference. The words were music to my ears. The title is in my heart. The label makes no difference.

Your child will always have two mothers: one that gave birth to him, and one that raises him. I came to terms with that long ago in a child's sweet voice calling me Daddy. The label isn't what makes you a mother, it's the love.

Peggy

[dadfor2]

lisa quote:
"I'm just acknowledging all the others in her life too. the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned!"

lisa...i have to agree

ok, ill get honest, im coming from a different place then then the original poster of the thread..

im having a hard time understanding why someone wouldnt want an open adoption....honestly

i really dont understand....i have heard from other aparents that dont want open adoptions, and i really am not sure why. I mean, i have some sort of idea, but im not totally clear on it.

but then again, i dont have one, due to my childrens circumstances.

which i agree that it should not be open...

but i thought how nice it would be if we did......it just seemed kinda of a nice idea to have more people involved with my kids, that truly love my kids.

plus, a little easier on us too...lol (i know, kinda selfish, but honest... ..sometimes i need a break, and wouldnt it be nice if it was their birthmom looking after them.. )

i dont know...having all these people love my children....there cant be anything wrong with that...can there be?

i have read tons of stuff on this forum over the years and have been educated in more ways then one, and totally understood alot of things....but this one i can never really wrap my brain around.

i sorta understand...but i guess it could be one of those things....'i wont understand, until we are in that place'

so my post is totally coming from ignorance just to put that out there too.

but I wish my children had a healthy birthmom and birthdad...how nice would that be for them and for us...i wouldnt have to explain why their birthmom or birthdad wasnt in their lives....because they are...once less thing to explain.

shhhhhh, dont tell anyone....secretly, i do envy people that have open adoptions...

i wish my kids had that, and i actually sometimes look at them, and feel sad that they dont and cant have that experience of having a relationship with their bparents.......

i just think things would be so much easier fo them, if they could.


dadfor2

[Scarlet]

MO-mom if ya ever want to talk, vent, ask advice and don't want to be picked to death or critized for your views please send me a PM. I know that many times this forum seems one sided, and I know that many refrain from expressing themselves in public not out of fear but because it just isn't worth the fight.

[dadfor2]

im confused...are posts getting deleted or something?....it seems people are discussing the original post.

jensboys...are post getting deleted?

dadfo2

[kashicaat]

I think your perspective may change as you continue the process. My feelings were not as strong as yours when we began our adoption journey, but I was nervous about the role of the birthfamily once we received a child (infant). We were actually leaning towards a closed adoption so that we wouldn't have to deal with 2 moms and 2 dads. The more I read, the more I understood not only the benefits of open adoption, but that a child having two families that love them is only going to benefit the child and we decided that we actually wanted an open adoption.

Now that we are blessed with our daughter, I can only hope, wish and pray that our daughters bmother will changer her mind about having a closed adoption as time goes on (A last minute placement so we didn't know she didn't want contact until we were on the road...not that we would have said no though!). Not only that, but I can't wait to welcome her into her daughter's life with open arms because both our daughter and her bmother deserve to know each other, our daughter deserves to know her biological siblings. I wasn't sure of how strongly I felt until the bmother (she didn't want to be around at all when our daughter was being released from the hospital, but due to extreme circumstances at the hospital she had to be there) had to physically hand over her daughter to us and I saw the pain and sorrow on her face...and the tears pouring out of her eyes. That's when I knew what my job was....I am this little girls mommy and I will always be that, but there are some ties that I just won't be able to fill and I know, as an adoptive parent, that I will be there on an everday basis, giving her things and chances at life that she wouldn't otherwise have, but that there will come a time when she wants to know her bmother. Whatever name Addison wants to call her is okay, because honestly, in the whole scheme of things, it's not important. The bmother gave us the greatest gift in the world, to raise her daughter, give her an easier road in life, and give her certain things in life that she may not otherwise ever get a chance at having, basically entrusting us with someone she has gotten to know for 9 full months and is half her. The least I can do is make any kind of relationship between the two of them as easy as possible...a gift I can give back.

I hope I have made a little sense on my reasoning on why it is an issue...it's not a bad issue though, and for those who get that chance to have the bfamily in their life, they are lucky!

[camilleh]

I pasted something below that I wrote in another thread forever ago. I didn't want to retype the sentiment. It's so similar to what I would add to this thread. And well! I'm just tired and still have more work to do.

Try to understand the sentiment. As adoptive parents (or the hopeful one that I am) we need to try so hard understand our children's connection to their birthparents. It matters to the children.

Missourimom - I hope you really do enjoy the responses. I love the learning we can all do here!!

I think it was Brandy who pointed out that some day our children may come here and read what's been written. That's a fabulous thing to keep in perspective. I was adopted by my father although my birthfather is still a part of my life. My mother said so many many things about my birthfather and she was none too kind. The problem is it did NOT have the effect she seemed to hope for. I do not care who he was then. He's my father, I love him, he's part of me. That's that. Adoptive parent's children may be the same way. I don't care if they came from abusive foster homes or perfect angelic birthparents. Those birthparents are part of who they are. Part of their psyche, part of their genes, and part of what makes them who they are. As a young person I struggled with the tugging of my mother and my love of my birthfather. I have a great relationship with all my parents now, but that is a credit to my own discovery and happened in SPITE of the (sometimes) small comments my mother made. We must remember that children pick up on the very slightest details and innuendos. As adoptive parents who need to protect their hearts, minds, and souls we must also protect their birthparents.

[tobeafamily]

Whew!

For me, it's about mapping relationships - y'know, like a family tree? The "names" we give define relationships. Because adoption in it's current and recent forms is 'new' in our society, no one has established 'names' yet for all the roles in the adoptee's life. By names I mean 'husband', 'wife', 'daughter', 'uncle', 'grandma', etc. And we use multiple names for the same role - take grandfather - 'grandpa', pop-pop', 'grandpierre', 'papa', 'grandpop'. You get the idea. We all as a society can immediately 'map' the relationship to the name.

I remember as a child realizing for the first time that 'Aunt Mary Ann' and my 'Mommy' was the same person, only my cousin's called her 'Aunt' and I called her 'Mommy'. Confused me for quite a while. Yes, I was a contemplative child.

For me, it's about helping my son understand how all those who love him 'map' to him, using the 'names' we put on 'roles'. Since there aren't any culturally established ones for his birth parents, we had to make up our own. Ryan came through with these 'Bema' and 'Beda'. Works for all of us - unique to them and their role, not confusing with other roles on the 'map', celebrates who they are in a special way that allows him to decide when to share his adoption with others too.

It's not about who's better/worse, or who's done more/less, or who's most important. It's about how our children draw those wonderful family trees of theirs, showing all the branches and leaves. Being respectful of our children means being respectful and acknowledging of all of the tree, not just our part.

BTW Lisa we're like you - blended. I only use baunt and such when I'm here or someone's confused about who, say "Aunt T" is since DH has no sisters and they know my sisters' names. Then I have to stop and explain. But only if they ask. Ryan has a grandma, grandpa, mom-mom, pop-pop, nonni, grandpa g, oma, etc. All equal in his and our eyes.

IMHO

Regina

[InionGrinn]

MO Mom - I'm glad you posted. You've roused a great bunch of posters here from all sides of the triad...and I think we can ALL add something here that we can take away.

Here's an adoptee's side (Props out to Jensboys for a great supportive post btw) and thanks Volfe for asking for us adoptees to chime in...

My mom (that would be adoptive mom, but I only use amom here on the forums because it's necessary for clarity) is my Mom with a capital M. She was there for the boogers, the diapers, the school plays, all my "stuff" good and bad. I think once you are a mom you will realize that your role, your influence goes WAY beyond a title. No one can compete with the Mom you will be to that child.

That said, I encourage you not to discount the role - however small it may be in your adoption arrangement - of your child's birthparents. I did not have an open adoption and do not to this day know my birthmother. But this has not stopped me from having respect and love for her - and I was not encouraged to talk about her as a child. I think that the idea that with her relinquishing "me" she relinquished ALL other rights including the right to a title is what has kept so many birthmoms in the shadows, ashamed, feeling second best. I think that attitude has harmed the whole adoption 'system' over the years.

I think it would have helped my relationship with my Capital M Mom if she would have encouraged me and supported me more, put her fears aside, when I had questions about my birthmom. There's something to be said for putting aside a little pride (not meaning to offend here, please understand) and letting that child of yours "organize their world" by naming their birthparents whatever they like, if it'll help them.

Sorry if I've been tangential....

(P.S. Shoshana another great post...)