[KellyStacy]

Please someone help.We have met a wonderful birthmom.So far everything is going fine.She allows us to go to the doctor visits and we are praying this is the baby for us.In the beginning we decided on pictures and an occasional phone call from me to the birthmom saying all is well with the baby.We did bring up the fact of visits -at first the birthmom wanted visits then after talking to her husband decided against visits.As hopeful adoptive parents our opinion was no visits.We feel this would be too complicated and would just confuse the child as he/she grew older.We thought all this was discussed and now the birthmom is once again bringing up visits.It just seems like all of a sudden its changed to an open adoption.This is not something we want.From the start we have been nothing but honost.I tried to tell the birthmom how I feel,but she keeps insisting I have nothing to worry about she would never take the baby. I feel that in time i will tell this child (when the time is right) about the adoption but with being in contact with the biological family you just never know if someone might slip witht he information before I get a chance to explain.There are a lot of fears I have with the visiting.Please if someone could maybe give me some advice.We feel we need to once again tell them how as hopeful adoptive parents we need to be honost and let them know again up front visits are just not what we want.

[kamamsm]

While I can understand your being concerned (I would, too) may I suggest rethinking the "telling the child when the time is right"? Kids do so much better with honesty from the get go. If you let the child grow up knowing they were adopted, allowed the words & talk - adoption- to be routine or common place -the child has more self assurance of who they are in this world. Regarding visitation- I certainly can't answer that for you. But if you are in contact with her then your child will have the chance to have so many questions answered when needed.

[BrandyHagz]

Honestly, and lets not sugar coat things…it sounds like a bad match to me.

Openness should be one of the main match criteria…if the birthmother wants more openness than you do, then your obligated to walk away or educate yourselves on the facts of Open Adoption.

I’m not sure what you hoped for by posting this…were you hoping for some way to talk her into placement anyway?

Regarding the discloser of adoption to children…I posted a thread about this a couple of days ago… When is the best time to reveal to a child that he/she is adopted? and one of my favorite answers, posted by DianeS I think you should "reveal" to a child that he is adopted at the same time that you "reveal" to the child his own gender, age, name, fact that he is a "son", has a "mother", a "father", at least one "grandparent", maybe a "brother" or "sister", etc.

We explain all those things to a child before he could possibly understand them. A child too young to understand reproduction can't possibly understand the significance of a sibling or grandparent any easier than the significance of a birth parent. Why should one be explained immediately but the other not? That choice never made sense to me, either.

[AMom2Two]

Originally posted by KellyStacy
We feel we need to once again tell them how as hopeful adoptive parents we need to be honost and let them know again up front visits are just not what we want.

Kelly, you already feel like you need to be honest and that is good. Your heart is conflicted and that is why you came here to get advice. I commend you on doing this, instead of just telling the pbmom what she wants to hear.

I agree with you that you need to be honest with her and tell her that visits are not something you are comfortable with. I do get the feeling that her husband is trying to tell HER what to do. That is not good for her, emotionally or physically and can cause many problems for her and for you.

Some bmom's need to have more visits the first year and then they taper off. They need to know that the child is safe and well. It gives them comfort to see where the child is living, sleeping and how well they are being taken care of. Just as going to the doctor's appointments gives you comfort that she is including you, maybe you can open your door a little for her.

Maybe you can consider having some visits for the first year, while the child is young enough not to really understand. This might be all the pbmom needs or it may not be.

You really do have to follow your heart and be honest. Remember that the right children come to us if we are open and honest. A child we get by deception is wrong. I know you don't plan on being dishonest or you would not have posted this situation.

So, I do agree with you about being honest, even if it means walking away from this match. I have been turned down many, many times because pbm wanted closed adoptions. Don't give up if that is truly what you want. They are out there.

As far as telling the child about adoption, the other posters said my thoughts.

I know your heart is sad because this may not be what you hoped for. Hugs to you (((((Kelly))))))) at this difficult time.

[Volfe]

I agree that this sounds like a bad match.
If she might EVER want more than you want, you will feel threatened, she will feel betrayed... The child will feel?? In the middle...

If you are only willing to do the little bit of openness that is not enough. I will tell you what I told my child's amother (who didn't apparently listen to me anyway)... Open adoption is hard, You need to research it, read up on it, talkk to people... You need to think about it A LOT and then you need to want it from your heart. If not it will not be fair to a lot of people. To you, to the birthmother, to the child... If you do not, you need to tell this birthmother so. This is not the child for you if this child is supposed to grow up with visits from its birthfamily.

This is a hard thing, giving up a baby (on your part) but sometimes the roads we travel in life are very difficult.

Maia

[LouiseT]

kellystacy-
my heart goes out to you. i can't imagine how hard it is for you to realize that this might not be the right match for you. if you do not feel comfortable with the level of openness the birthmom is suggesting, then don't do it. trying to convince yourself that this openness will work for you, when you know in your heart it will not, is not fair to anyone involved.
i am a product of a closed adoption, and while there are pros and cons to both open and closed, you need to do what feels right. don't force yourself into an open adoption if it doesn't feel right.
i hope you will soon havea baby to love!

[DebCsMom]

We have 3 total open adoptions. It's the only way we'd do them. I research alot before we adopted. I talked to alot of adoptees on here in the chat room. We decided it was what was best for ALL involved, especially for our children. Open adoption is NOT co-parenting, unless co-parenting is what you want.

We are our childrens parents. There is no doubt or questions about that. We have frequent visits, TONS of pictures & letters & emails in between visits. It has been a VERY healthy experience for everyone!! We are all comfortable. Our oldest is now 4 1/2. She knows she was born in "L's" Tummy & that "L" is her Birth Mom. Like Brandy stated, as soon as we could, adoption was talked about. It wasn't shoved down her throat, but it is discussed on a regular basis.

I think the confusion for children comes when they DON'T know anything. Or if they have too many questions that can't be answered. We as the adoptive parents don't have all the answers. I feel comfortable knowing that the questions I can't answer are only a phone call away to the Bmom.

When we have visits, it isn't uncomfortable at all. The BMoms are secure with the decision they made especially because we invlve hem as much as we do. Because they aren't left in the dark about the child. Sending art work from the child, or making a phone call to them on a special happening in the child's life makes everyone feel more secure. I think it's great when Cylie does something special & wants to call "L" to tell her. Or that she makes something & wants to send it to her.

Being able to SEE their BMoms also gives them an identity. They can SEE for themselves who they look like. Each of our children has of course physical as well as mannerisms from their BMom's. For instance, Cylie has her BMoms crooked pinky finger & we call it her "L" finger. She has feet like her Birth Brother. Our 2 year old Cirrah is a "CLONE" to her BMom in looks AND personality. We will mention at times to her, "you look just like "M" when you do that". She is only 2 but knows who "M" is. Our son is only a year so we haven't really begun abything with him, but we talk about his BMom with the girls.

Open adoption is something you have to be COMPLETELY comfortable with. If you aren't it will be a disaster. You will resent the BMom & she will fell betrayed. Rethink your decisions. It has to be a comfortable decision. Don't go with a situation because you think you can change things to fit you or that you think another may not come along soon or that it has taken you so long to match you should jump on it & do what you want later. Think about the child, & do what is best for ALL of you involved!

As I put in my signature, :Open adoption doesn't complicate of family, it COMPLIMENTS it"

Good Luck!!

Deb

[mommytobug]

our story was told to our daughter from the first night I held her at one day old.............how we waited..........how her first mom loved her.............she is very well adjusted and very confident in her story and is very proud...............


My first husband was told at age 16 when he needed his birth certificate that his dad was not his dad..................and notice i said FIRST husband, he never got over it and never could be happy , even after meeting his dad................


PLEASE do not agree to this placement if you do not want openness..............nothing hurts more than when a birthparent requests open and then the adoptive parents stop contact.................

[Byngee12]

Please please please go back and read Brandy's post. After you read it print it out so you can read it again. Please consider as hard as it might be walking away now. If you'll just read your own post you'll see that the stage is set for disaster. First of all with all due respect she isn't a birthmother, shes simply a mother making an adoption plan. If there hasn't been an agreement made there should be no adoption. AMom2Two posted:

Maybe you can consider having some visits for the first year, while the child is young enough not to really understand. Visits that cease after the first year or before the child is "old enough to understand" are referred to as suddenly closed and are tragic and unfair both to the birthfamily and the child. You can look at any thread here where B-moms are posting and find at least one who has experienced having an open adoption become closed and its horrible. Why 2nd guess that maybe this will be enough for her after she has clearly said she wants to visit, period? Mom2 if visits the first year give her comfort what happens when that door closes after the child becomes older and she no longer knows and sees that he/she is comfortable, knows where its living and that its well? See this isn't a situation that she will likely forget; she'll have the same concerns forever. Also you say you feel her husbands input is bad for her; my question is why? Either he is her childs dad or at the very least her system of support and IMO has every right to be as involved in this planning process as KellyStacy's husband.
Kelly, you came here seeking what? Advice?... if so please read Brandy's. Tara

[tobeafamily]

One of the most critical areas in domestic parental placement is post placement openness.

Flexibility, honesty and trust are the key tenets. To agree to something that you're not comfortable with is to be dishonest. That breeds mistrust. Without these, you cannot succeed and it is the child who is ultimately failed.

It's not unlike marriage. Think about it: Your fiancee is saying "I really want us to live in the country and raise cows". You're thinking "Well, a house in the outer suburbs with some land would be OK, I'm not living in the sticks and definitely no cows". You really love the guy, and it makes him happy, so you say "OK we'll do that" thinking you can work it out after the wedding. In your heart, though, you're never wanting to ever be within 10 feet of a cow. The closer you get to the wedding, the more he's talking about cows, the more you're worried that you're going to be seeing them. How do you think this marriage is going to turn out? Same with adoption and openness.

Both parties have to be completely 100% in-your-bones comfortable with what you're agreeing to do. Otherwise, you will forever be 'fighting' what you want to do vs. what you agreed to do. This benefits no one, least of whom your child, who will even in their earliest days sense your conflict.

Understand too that relationships change, and that goes for openness in adoptive relationships. If you're feeling uncomfortable and pushed now, I can promise you there's a huge potential for that to get 'worse' as your child grows.

I would go further than Brandy and Maia = this is not a match at all. I would walk away from this couple and let them find someone who's truly going to be comfortable with the level of openness they seek. You all will be happier for it.

And if you're wondering, yes I'm well aware of how hard it is to walk away, I've done it more than once. We did finally make the connection that brought us our son. All of us were perfectly comfortable in our level of openness, 2 1/2 years later it couldn't be going much better than it is.

IMHO

Regina

[AMom2Two]

Originally posted by Byngee12

Mom2 if visits the first year give her comfort what happens when that door closes after the child becomes older and she no longer knows and sees that he/she is comfortable, knows where its living and that its well?

.......No it is not.... and that was NOT what I was implying!!!!

See this isn't a situation that she will likely forget; she'll have the same concerns forever.

......You really can't speak for someone else. My daughter's bmom had one visit and that was all in 3 years. She still has our phone number and address but has moved and decided she needs to move on with her life, without us. Each situation is different. I have been turned down at least 3 times because I wanted an open adoption and the pbmom wanted closed. I was by no means, saying she should lie to her or mislead her, only talk to her about her feelings. How do you know she may be okay with visits for the first year and then just pictures thereafter. You don't know. The point I was trying to make is that maybe something can be worked out between the parties. The pbm's husband is not supporting her in her desire for visits, which is another big problem. In most cases, the wife will listen to the husband and she may close the adoption herself, down the line to keep things calm at home with her husband. This situation is not good. The pbm should not have anyone pressuring her to what she should and shouldn't have. It should be her decision, not her husbands to dictate to her.


Also you say you feel her husbands input is bad for her; my question is why?

....I didn't say her husband input was bad for her. I think it's bad that he is telling her not to do an open adoption. I think it's wrong of him to tell her how to handle this....

Either he is her childs dad or at the very least her system of support and IMO has every right to be as involved in this planning process as KellyStacy's husband.

....Now you have me confused. Her husband wants a closed adoption. This was what Kelly wrote about him... "after talking to her husband decided against visits."

[KellyStacy]

I would never,ever think of lying to this birthmom.We both want a baby very,very much! However, being truthful is extremely important in this whole adoption.I would never want this birthmom to feel she is going to receive visits then with hold the child.As far as we knew for the last couple of months this subject was already talked about and decided.We all agreed on pictures and an occasional phone call from me.I told the birthmom we would totally have no problem with that.However, just yesterday the words open adoption came up..and i asked her what she meant by open adoption.I think she wants us to feel included in her family and wants visits.I will talk to her again,but i will let her know as a couple hoping to adopt..we very,very much want to adopt this baby,but being truthful we will let her know that for us open adoption is not what we want.I really thought this was understood with a conversation we had previously.I think her and the birthfather need to do what they both feel comfortable with.We are all in this together and as much as we want a baby I could never lie to any birthmom.I am hopeful that maybe she will understand how we feel if we tell her again,but it scares me how previously she told me it would be ok for pictures and an occasional phone call and now she changed her mind.The only reason I posted on this board was for some insight.Definitely not for some way to talk her into placement! I have been honost from the beginning and intend to stay honost through this whole adoption if this is meant for us.

[AMom2Two]

Originally posted by KellyStacy
.Definitely not for some way to talk her into placement! I have been honost from the beginning and intend to stay honost through this whole adoption if this is meant for us.

Kelly...I feel so misunderstood today. I think maybe I will take a break from all of this. Please know that I wasn't trying to convince you to talk her into placement, only offering suggestions. Some days things never come out right. I know you would never lie to her and I know open adoption is not what you want. I respect you for standing your ground on that, even if it means you have to pass on this match.

I just wanted to give you a (((((((hug)))))).

Bye...

[KellyStacy]

OH no that comment was not made to you.There was another posting with that implied.You have been wonderful with advice!

[Volfe]

Here is my last bit of advice to you:
Ask the birthmother to WRITE down - in private - what she'd really like from this relationship (adoption) for herself and her child. Include pics/ visits/ calls/ email - all forms of contact. Include what she wants the child to know her as, by what name, etc.

Write down your own versioin of this. Do this seperately.
Do not do this together!!

Write it, then think about it for a day, then meet to exchange and discuss...

If you do not match up, it is not a match.

~~~

To further Amom's position...
Many times the first year is hardest on a birth mother and Visits and very frequent contact are best. Then, as time helps to heal the wounds of grief, as lives grow and become filled, as people move on.... Contact does not need to be as constant. But it should be up to the individuals involved, the triad members, to decide these changes as time passes on. Keeping everyone informed is key (IMO).

I personally told my baby's amother that I would need frequent visits, contact, pics and updates the first two years and then would back off on visits but I wasn't sure what the baby's sisters would want to do... keep contact frequent or not. Our contact is instead infrequent and the amom pushes meetings back, etc. This is not fair.

I only know what I wanted so surely because I have a son in open adoption already. I know how great open adoption can be... I also know how horrible the betrayal can feel from feeling closed out of a planned open adoption.

I wish I had told her to write down her hearts desires and ideas for the future with our child in regards to open adoption.