[Volfe]

Who can know how they will feel?

True, no one can without having felt it before. I knew what to expect and how I would feel after placing...
However, everyone can learn from other people experiences. Learning how other birthmoms felt after placing, like Christine's wanting visits now... will help this potential birth mother understand the emotions she will face.

Tell me something, once the child is placed, if the birth mother wants visits then, if she realizes she REALLY wanted that... How would you feel. You can project yourself into that situation...
Frankly, you quite obviously will be obliviously happy since you have the baby...

I have suggested ways to learn how each person REALLY feels so that this decision is based on unbiased choices and feelings so that the end result is truly as beautiful as it can be. Trust me, when everyone is on the same page, it is marvelous. The problems come when they aren't.

We cannot educate those who don't wish to learn.
Otherwise, I would have succeeded long ago with my daughter's amom. However, I have made great friends here and learned a lot from adoptive mothers, birth parents (newly relinquished/ in adoption/ in reunion) and adoptees... including my own 13 yr old.
Learning from peoples experiences is one of the best ways.

Please consider all that is said objectively. Perhaps you and she should read the Open Adoption Experience. It is very informative for both of you.

Maia

[AMom2Two]

I, personally feel that it asking too much of the paparents to expect them to educate the pbmother who selects them. It is easier to educate other pbm then the one who is carrying the baby you hope to adopt.

If I may talk from my experience, I too, was told much advice on how to handle our last match. While I did try to do everything right, I knew in my heart, I was incapable of educating her to keep her baby, even though, I knew she could parent. I knew she had the agency at her disposal and I feel it is the agencies job to educate the bmom, not mine. I did educate her about how other bmom's felt about aparents at the hospital and that is the reason why I think she should have "her time" at the hospital. I thought there would be plenty of time for me and the baby.

I feel when a person's heart is tied to the pbmother and the child, we don't want to lose them. If we built a relationship and we get along, then we are scared of walking away. I'm sorry but that is the truth. I also think it is unreal for us to push Kelly to educate the pbmom, for if she does that, then she can lose this baby that she wants. I know, I know, I know, you will all say that is the risk we run, but how many aparents who waited so long for a child, has the strength or the nerve to educate the pbparents when it means you are talking yourself out of a match? Human nature is tricky, I think we subconsciously protect our hearts.

I will admit that I sat quietly and let the pbmom struggle with the help of the agency. She wanted no visits for the first few years and I wanted visits. Yet I was too scared to push her because I was afraid she would find another couple and I thought I could live with no visits. It helped that I didn't talk to her face to face. It has to be much harder for Kelly because she does have that one on one contact with her.

Kelly has been matched with the pbm for quite some time now. She has an emotional investment in this. I think it is "unreal" to expect her to educate the pbmom at the risk of losing the child. That would be self-defeating. She is not being dishonest, in fact, I find she is being extremely honest with this pbmother.

It is the pbmom's responsibility to protect herself and stand up for what she wants. It is not the aparents job to educate them and explain the consequences of their actions. Kelly is not taking advantage of this pbmom. They were in agreement when first matched about no visits. Kelly is very sure she doesn't want an open adoption and if the pbmom does, then she should log onto a computer and educate herself. We do not live in the dark ages. Information is made so readily available, all you have to do is click.

Again, I think you are asking far too much from some aparents. JMHO

ps.. I did like the idea of the list that Volfe suggested.

[tobeafamily]

This is a very emotionally charged time for both your family and hers. She has stated she is afraid you will walk away. That's a HUGE fear for pbparents, especially when they've 'invested' in you two.

You've stated that you feel great love for her and feel this baby is meant to be yours. These strong emotions may subtlely work in ways that are not productive long term. They may not.

I think the concern here is that those emotions may get in the way of true understanding and agreement. Remember, only 6% of what you communicate is in the words you use. The other 94% is in your tone, pace, phrasing, nonverbal cues (including breath pace), and medium. And of the message that's sent, only 21% of it's total content is received.

You mentioned in your last post that it's the pbmom's choice whether to place with you. That is only half the truth - it's also your choice whether to accept the placement or not.

Being a project manager by training and profession, I tend to look for the 'core' of an issue.

At its' core, you are both taking a risk here. Your risk exposure is this: Should she ask after placement for visits (for clearly she has thought about them), you'll risk your child's relationship with their birth family on your response.

She's also got risk exposure: That you'll be honest and trustworthy and that you might be reasonable should things change down the line.

You both need to determine the outcomes of the risk scenario and weigh benefits vs. costs.

Are you willing to accept placement with the possibility that in 6 months she'll ask for visits, regardless of what she says now?

Is she willing to place, understanding that should she feel differently she may not be able to negotiate a modified relationship?

Bottom line: Since you are first time paparents, and she apparently is a first time pbmom, niether of you knows how you'll feel. You may think you know. Coming from the other side of that experience, I can tell you pretty definitively that you don't.

Believe me, it's a heckuva lot harder to have a lifelong rocky relationship with your child's birthfamily then it is to walk away. You may think this baby is worth it, and that it will probably most likely work out ok. There are warning flags that say it may not.

There are also women on this board who've been in this young lady's shoes. While none of us are 'experts', nor do we proclaim ourselves as such, we have been a bit further down the road than you and we do care about you, this child, and her.

If it were me, I'd bring in the services of a third party - counselor type - to help you all work through it.

IMHO

Regina

[tobeafamily]

Amom,

I agree with what you said. We cannot expect paparents to become counselor, educator, and protector of the pbfamily.

To protect her own emotions, though, I have to stand by that she should at least offer the services of a third party to this couple so they can objectively look at what they want. She should be as sure as possible that they are in lock step - and that goes beyond deep, tearful, emotionally charged long talks on the telephone.

Because if they 'get it wrong', it's a lifetime of heartache for her, them, and this child.

I know how hard it is to walk away because we did it. At the time, it seemed like the worst thing in the world. We questioned our sanity, our desire to become parents, our agency, God, etc. In the end, I'm glad we did, though, because now I see it would have been a disaster.

The world works in mysterious ways.

IMHO

Regina

[AMom2Two]

Originally posted by tobeafamily
If it were me, I'd bring in the services of a third party - counselor type - to help you all work through it. Regina

Regina, I like the idea of a third party. I agree that all parties should be on the same level. I would want that also.

[Leigh131313]

I agree with amom...it cannot be the paparents responsibility to council this pbmom. I would definately suggest she discussed the matter with an adoption councellor, but thats as far as I would have gone with a pbmom.
Leigh

[Byngee12]

I also agree that there needs to be an uninvolved 3rd party brought in at this point. There seems to be wavering going on and unless everyone is comfortable it won't work. My other comment is that here I've "met" several online A-moms whose kids aren't confused by OA and visits. If your only concern is that the child will become confused why not educate yourself on the ways to avoid having that occur?
I agree with AMom2 that it isn't the responsiblity of PA-parents to educate PB-moms; but IMO you have a moral obligation to make sure this "friend" who you say you really care about has all the facts and resources available to her so that she isn't left with a lifetime of pain and what-if's. Its what friends who really love respect and care do for each other when one is facing a crisis situation, especially since she is telling YOU her feelings. Tara

[79nic]

Ok.... maybe I misunderstood but I did not see anyone suggesting that p-aparents should do the educating themselves, just that they should be strong enough to point a p-bmom in the direction of resources where she can educate herself. And no, I don't think that's unreasonable to expect of p-aparents.

Now... Amom, you know (I hope) that I think the WORLD of you. You are an amazing, amazing woman, and I hope this next comment does not add to your grief in any way.... last thing I'd ever want do is hurt YOU of all people.

But there was something in your post that my heart just has to respond too:

I feel when a person's heart is tied to the pbmother and the child, we don't want to lose them. If we built a relationship and we get along, then we are scared of walking away. I'm sorry but that is the truth.

I understand what you are saying. You don't want to lose "your" child (and your relationship with a p-bmom). I understand because I know what it's like to "lose" a child I wanted desperately, a child I built a relationship with for nine months. But I chose to do what was best for "my" baby... and in my case, that meant placing her.

It is the very nature of being a birthmother that we make a decision against what our hearts are saying (keep this baby). It scares most of us to death. But WE DO IT. Because we believe it's best for baby.

If a p-aparent truly has a child's best interest at heart, why should we not expect the same thing of p-aparents? Why should we not expect them to say, you know, I love this child so much that I will admit I may not be the right parent for him (or her). ?

Because really, IMO that's what this boils down to. If a p-bmother thinks she'll want some contact, and the p-aparents don't, then they are not the right parents for that child.

Is this about wanting a baby, or is it about having a successful match with the RIGHT baby?

I'm sorry this is so harsh. I don't mean to sit in judgment looking down my nose. But I do believe p-aparents should be held to the same level of responsibility as p-bmoms.... they should have the same integrity to be able to admit that maybe they should not parent a particular child.

This situation has red flags all over it. I see boundaries being crossed. Telling someone all your feelings is not necessary for an honest, good relationship. Think of a marriage. Let's assume you have a good marriage and you love your dh and he loves you. There are no dark secrets, no big issues, a good marriage. Still... you are human and you have hormones. You'd like to be blind to other men, but you're not. Now.... You meet a man whom you're mildly attracted to. You would NEVER cheat, that's not an issue. Do you tell your husband you met some man you feel mildly attracted to? I hope not. How would that make him feel??? No, the correct response is to recognize the temptation you feel in the presence of the other man, and stay away from him, and concentrate on what you love about your hubby. Not to talk through with him in minute detail what you are feeling.

I see the same thing here. Crossed boundaries.... a lack of understanding about how spilling our feelings to someone else can affect that person....

My last comment is that it really would be GREATLY beneficial for all of you to get some (non-biased) third-party help on this. In fact I'd recommend three non-biased people: one to counsel the p-bmom; one to counsel you and your hubby; and one to counsel the three of you together. That way p-bmom will know she can speak freely with her own counselor and won't have to wonder about the counselor feels more "loyal" to you or her.

N

p.s. And the list idea.... definitely the list idea.

p.p.s. Open adoptions are not confusing for children. They are not detrimental. Yes, people disagree on this..... and I am not trying to change your mind.... But I'm worried that the p-bmom agreed with you on this on the basis of a "friend"telling her so. She obviously has not made an INFORMED opinion of open adoption. You may have... I don't know.... but she clearly has not. Someone needs to point this woman in the direction of some real information... if it's not you, who will it be?