[blessedmomee]

Our sweet dd is now 4mo. old and came to us as a private, domestic adoption. Some of you might remember me posting last spring about our rollercoaster situation with "Z" and her mother( I posted under a different name- couldn't remember the password!). Things seemed to go well during the pregnancy, but "Z" had a very hard time relinquishing rights after the birth. She had decided she wanted the baby back after two weeks of us having her. She did end up signing the consent to terminate rights, which was done 6weeks ago! She also asked for monthly visits for the first six months.
Our relationship with "Z" has really been good! We have really fallen in love with her and enjoy our visits with her! She also em several times a week. She is such a sweet girl and working so hard to complete her last year of hschool.
The problem has always been her mother!!! She caused alot of turmoil right after "Z" gave birth and she is still at it! "B" feels the need to be at every visit. She is so critical of everything we do with our dd! (Baby is losing some of her hair-so "we must not be feeding her", etc...)! She is also very nasty to "Z". No matter how often we say we don't want to hear it, she loves to tell us all of "Z" faults and mistakes. "B" also feels the need to bring her other, younger dd, who is completely out of control!!! This last visit she brought along another new boyfriend.

"B" made it clear that she is not interested in being a grandmother. I think she just feels the need to control the situation. "Z" is very dependent and vulnerable to her mother.
We need to find a way to have visits with JUST "Z"! We have tried picking "Z" up and taking her out, but "B" decided to come along and acted very upset that she wasn't invited.

"Z" has been asking to come to our house(we always meet at a neutral location). We have not had them over and really don't want to! We are fine with "Z" coming over, but really don't want to start having "B" (and her boyfriends, and dd) over! We are starting to count down the final months until we can stop having the monthly visits(two more). Although we only agreed to monthly visits for the first six months, I know that "Z" would be crushed if we were to stop visits afterwards. I don't want to hurt her, but boy do these monthly visits come around fast and they are so awkward and uncomfortable!!!

Any ideas or advice??

[riley6]

We had a similar situation, but it was with our kids' bmom's new husband. We ended up talking to her about the situation and told her that we wanted the visits to continue, and knew how much they meant to her, but we had agreed to visits with her and only her, not her dh. She agreed to not bringing him to future visits.

Could you contact her and tell her something like that? Let her know that you feel uncomfortable with her mom there and you'd be willing to pick her up for the visit, but that she had to be alone.

It sounds like you're in a difficult situation.

[spaypets]

Is Z still a minor? If so, I can understand B's need to be there (although one wonders where she was when...never mind). If Z is under 18, you might not have a choice until she's of age. I think you can tell B that it is overwhelming to you to have so many people at the visits and that you'd appreciate it if other family members didn't come until your X visit. That way at least it's just B and Z.

[Leigh131313]

I don't agree with spaypets....I think that after the six months its a new ballgame. I dont think her age has much to do with it.
I think this is what i would do..

I would continue the visits for the rest of the six months...then, i would discuss a new plan with "z" for continued visits. It is at that time that i would explain your feelings regarding "b" and any other guests. I would tell her that you would love to continue visits, but it would only be with her. Then it is up to her. If she wants to continue visits ( i assume she will) she will do what she needs to do.

I think this is important for a couple reasons, first off because this is your family and you need to make decisions regarding who you want around your child. Secondly, you do not want your daughter picking up any bad views on her birthmother. This would be very hard on her later on, when she starts to understand about her adoption.
Just my opinion In the end you will do what is best for you.
Leigh

[spaypets]

There's a legal issue to consider if Z is still a minor. B is her mother and guardian and if she doesn't want Z to go alone then there's not much the aparents can do about it. I sympathize, because B sounds difficult, but the reality is that she's Z's mother.

Now, if Z is over 18, then by all means try to get her to come alone.

[Jensboys]

To try to do it with a positive spin ... you might sit down with "Z" and chart out the next 6 months (she is probably terrified to bring it up -- and I am really proud of you for how far you have come! If I remember correctly you thought this was WAY out of your comfort zone!)

Say to "Z" Now for our Christmas visit ... why dont we get the families together, but for January lets meet for iceskating at such and such ... (or whatever) and in February, could you babysit for us so we can go out for Valentines, and March, lets go for a spring walk together, then in April, maybe the families (meaning B, dd etc) could get together around Easter.

Even if you could start by saying "B" could visit every 4th visit or something .. that might help over saying "no".

Or visit at their home for 15 minutes on your way out with "Z".

These relationships are complicated - WORTH IT - but hard! Good luck!

[blessedmomee]

Thank you so much for your responses! I think we will try to continue with the monthly visits until we have completed our agreement of six months. We really only have one left, plus Christmas. After the once a month for the first six months, we agreed to visits three times yearly- Christmas, birthday and another time of our choice. After tChristmas, we will try to discuss another arrangement. With our busy lifestyle, cnce a month is really alot for us. Our initial concern with this was that we don't even see our friends and family once a month and knew this would be a big stretch. I don't want to disappoint "Z" and know how much she needs this contact right now. Her mother is just way to much to handle!

I'm a little concerned that "Z" has not contacted us since our last visit over a week ago. The visit was incredibly awkward because of her mother's comments, uncontrolled sister, and new boyfriend. Still, I tried to focus on "Z" and how she was doing with school, work, etc... I got a glance of her as she was leaving. Her mother was pulling out of the parking lot and she was sitting in the back seat. She looked sooo upset! Our visit the month before was wonderful("Z"'s mom wasn't there!). "Z" always emails to say how much she enjoyed our visits. I hear from her a few times a week.

I haven't heard from her at all. I'm hoping she is ok and not upset about anything. Our dd has been having alot of stranger anxiety. She screamed everytime "Z" tried to hold her. I felt so bad! She was happy as could be until I would hand her to "Z". Of course, I tried to explain that alot of babies go through this and it is nothing personal.

I know that she is starting to get upset that we haven't had her to our house. She was very insistant that this next visit had to be at our house!! DH and I are so uncomfortable with this!!! I know she will be very upset if we want to meet anywhere other than our house. I know this seems like such a silly thing to worry about!
I know I'm reading to much into all of this ! Thanks for letting me this all here. Not to many people I could share this with!

CC

[bromanchik]

I would contact Z and talk to her about the visit. She really mey be concerned that her mother screwed it up for her! Be clear that you find her mother's behavior inappropriate, but not hers.

[kamamsm]

Lone wolf here- but I'd be uncomfortable with all of this. I realize this child gave birth to your precious baby. And she definitely deserves your respect. But this is your baby. Z should NOT come to your home. And at the end of the 6 months, if I were you, I'd stick to the original agreement and limit contact accordingly. I would not make a new aggreement. Z has so many issues to work through in her life;that's sad but not your responsability. Your job is to see to the welfare of your baby. How could it be good for the baby to be around a birth mom who is troubled and has low self-esteem- not to mention has this nightmarish family?

[baby2luv]

I have not heard if Z is under 18????

Who set up the contact agreement? Does it specify who is to be there? I am asking because our agreement outlines our bmom and her immediate family (she was 16). They have asked to bring a boyfriend ... we ok'd one but I felt it was too awkward and we decided if they were to ask again that we would say that we want only the people that would be consistent in our daughter's life.
I think that you have every right to do what is best for your child. Talk to Z about what you would like to see the visits like. Be open and honest with her.

[blessedmomee]

Thanks again! I am so torn by the fact that "Z" really emotionally needs these visits,but if they are this uncomfortable now, what will it be like when dd is older? I don't want dd to be affected by Z's neediness, not to mention her family! In this regard, sticking to three visits a year seems like the best thing to do.
On the other hand, I'm not sure how to do this when Z calls and emails wanting more contact. I really care about her. She is 17 and has had such a hard life. Of course, my main responsibility is to my children.
This last visit was really not good. I went alone with dd, so that my other children would not be exposed to Z's mom, her boyfriend and the out of control sister! Their lifestyle and behavior is so different from ours. My children were so confused by the language and Z's moms conversation(talk of ex husband, abuse, fights, etc..) at one of our visits! Yet, we had a visit two months ago with just Z and it was really fun! We all really enjoyed ourselves!
Dh and I are completely uncomfortable with having Z over to the house. All of my children will be present for the visit, and it will be so hard to keep the visits short! I am also worried that once they come to the house, we will have alot of unannounced visits. I am not sure how to get out of this. I'm usually not this passive, but I feel such compassion towards Z.

The contact agreement laid out before dd was born, stated just two visits a year with pics and updates in between. The visits were to be at a neutral location. We were really comfortable with this.
After dd was born, Z changed her mind and signed the consent based on the fact that there would be changes to the contact agreement. She wanted monthly visits for the first six months, and three times a year after. She asked to come to our house sometimes. She also asked to be called Mom or at the very least Aunt. DD had been with us for two weeks, and we came so close to losing our dd, that we agreed to the visits. We didn't agree to them being at our house, but said 'maybe' someday.

I'm hoping that in time, all of this will work out. Right now, we just need to figure out how to have visits without Z's mom and NOT at our house. Thanks you all!

[ermiller]

I'm not yet an adoptive mom but this is something I have thought about a lot - in terms of what will we do if there are issues with someone in the birthfamily that is not necessarily with the birthmom or dad- as well as having them in our home.

I do think you should stick with the agreement in place at the time of her signing, with some flexibility should you feel it might be nice to have an additional visit with Z. Did you go through an agency/lawyer where you might be able to meet with a social worker present to work through with Z the issues that are coming up in relation to her mom et al? I'm just thinking that this might be a neutral way to discuss the future visits and lay out the guidelines that would be in place for all future visits, i.e. when they would just be with Z and when her mom & sister could participate.

As for visiting in your home, Z may just want to see exactly where her birthdaughter is being raised. It could just be reassuring to her to be able to picture the baby there rather than this unknown place. I do think just Z should visit your home because there are some definite boundary issues going on there with her mom.

Good luck and I hope you are able to spend some time with just Z and your family! Congrats on the successful placement
Erin

[michellemartin]

IMO she made the adoption decision alone. She could have even as a minor aborted without her parents permission. Her mom should back off, but oh well, some parents are like that. I'm guessing email? I like the suggestion of letting her know her behavior isnt inapproprite, but her mothers is and see if the two of you can brainstorm an idea to get her to your home without her family. I can see how it would be uncomfortable to have a woman showing such disrespect in your home.

[wanttobeparents]

I'm an adoptive mom in an open adoption. L comes to our house, we go to hers, we pick her up to go places. We have not had any problems. We see her about once a month or so. She brought her boyfriend (not the birthfather) on the last visit. Our visits are easy and lots of fun. The first visits were a little harder with things a bit more strained. Is my house clean enough? Is the baby dressed and bathed? Has he thrown up on himself since the bath? Did the cat throw up somewhere or the dog pee?

I know that both of the birthparents threatened their families prior to us meeting them. Something along the lines of, "Don't you dare mess this up for me!!!" It sounds like even if Z threatened her family, it wouldn't help.

I agree that asking Z how to handle a visit without her mother would be the way to go. Email would be easiest as far as asking and making sure that you get the wording right, but keep in mind that email could be shown (or found) by mom. I make it a policy that I never say anything in email that I would not want someone else to read. Mom could hit the roof and make it difficult for Z if she read something that made her feel left out. Maybe you could write it out and then call Z to talk about it? Tell her that you know that the last visit was uncomfortable for her, that you think that it could be either the baby's stranger anxiety or the fact that her mother made it difficult for all of you. Maybe even word it so that Z can cut Mom out of the visit by referring to the baby's stranger anxiety, that the baby is having such a hard time with lots of people around and it would be better to postpone having Mom see the baby. This visit will be just for Z, but you'll take lots of pictures to show Mom. If Mom still throws a fit, see if you can plan a time for the visit when Mom cannot be there. She can't invite herself along if she's not home.

The baby will do just fine with visits as long as your attitude stays good. She can feel it when you stress out and acts accordingly. Z will not be a stranger to cry about, but a friend that she will look forward to seeing. My 3 year old adores his younger brother's birthparents and is thrilled when they come to visit. Michael lights up whenever he sees them, and he's not quite a year old yet. It does get easier, just not with toxic family members tagging along.

Peggy

[Sledge]

I'm sorry but I must've missed it but is the adoption final?