[Volfe]

amom4life, yes she was. I'd say more but fairly certain 'she'll' be reading this too.

Me

[Howdy]

Well, I'm never good at recognizing trolls, but he sounded like a real person.
I was very defensive and easily angry about things during my homestudy too. I wasn't fond of my social worker ('boy, SHE has issues!' 'who does she think she is?!' 'this is ridiculous!'). I hated having my future happiness depend on trying to impress some "bureaucrat". (They told us in orientation that going through the county is not for people who hate bureaucracy, so of course I claimed to just love it...funny how everyone in the whole class claimed to like dealing with bureaucrats - anything for a child!)
I think the anger and defensiveness is from fear.

Anyway, Dad79, I think you will do fine. It IS annoying that they don't tell us important things and then make us have to freak at unexpected requirements.
With me, I waited months and months for my homestudy (I went with a county, so I didn't have to pay anything, it would have been much more annoying if I was paying someone to drag their feet), and then, AFTER I was matched (with an older child, I'm not desiring a baby) and the child was due to move in as soon as a couple visits were done, the social worker FINALLY came to my house. With a friggin LIST of requirements, that if they had given me months before would have all been accomplished long before. I was SO annoyed. And I was mad (but not of course openly to the all-powerful s/w). But then it turned out that they could (and did) give me a temporary foster care license with 3 months to get the things done. So the kid moved in and everything was okay. In fact, they didn't bother to check that I accomplished the list of things until this year (two foster kids later).

And nowadays I like my social worker. She has been really helpful and sides with me in issues with the caseworkers (not that we have any real adversarial stuff, but sometimes with visit problems etc.). And I don't feel like I have to impress her, or depend on her for 'allowing' me to get a child. Of course, she really still does have the power, but now I have more trust in the system, that they aren't trying to exclude families (me) unreasonably.

I can understand too that you have been focused on other aspects of preparing. I went through several periods of preparation. My first effort was to have a room (I had to have a wall put in). The social worker told me that there was plenty of time for that, but to me it was the most important thing (maybe because I expected a child to show up a lot sooner than it turns out these things happen, or maybe it was just a 'nesting' instinct).
The next period was finishing all the requirements (like CPR training, etc.). Then I went into a reading-everything-about-adoption period, followed by reading up about 'disorders', and I forget when I got interesting in reading about parenting. Now I'm more interested in reading about fun family activities, where are the good places to take kids, etc. And, lately I've been reading about sibling issues (maybe one kid won't be enough!).

My advice is to relax, ignore all the posters who are so shocked that you didn't have your priorities in a different order. In fact, I'm almost sure that one of the posters who is saying how important reading is, once upon a time posted that they didn't think it was necessary to read a lot!

[dadfor2]

hi howdy,

i totally agree with the homestudy stuff...we too had a diffulcult time...

i remember our kids were even identified. we went to disclosure meetings...but the social worker couldnt get off her behind to write down the homestudy.

we too had to do alot of stuff too....we were angry and frustrated also.

i remember that we were so frustrated and i felt like we were doing more work then her.

our kids were waiting, we were waiting, our kids social worker was waiting..but she took her sweet time to do the paper work.

on that note, just the other day i got a call from a social worker from her office stating she wanted to come to the house.

i called her back and she gave me dates when she could come...i didnt back to her right away becuase i had to check my wifes schedul.

then i got a call from our kids social worker telling me to call her becuase we could be in vioaltion...

i said "violation! since the kids were placed with us 2 1/2 yrs ago we have not heard from that office...we called when we were having problems to get no phone calls back.....i cant tell you angry i got...i said that through all th issues we were having, no one came or called to see if things were ok...

what im trying to say, i understood with dad79 was saying about frustrating...

but i guess the difference is, i didnt go into adoption saying "straight out" what i would do and wouldnt do....plus i felt there were underlying issues he had with this social worker other then questions being asked then answered.

anyway, thats where i think some of us were coming from..it was the tone of his thread, not the venting...im sure we can all relate to the homestudy process...AHHHH!!!! that was a nightmare.

dadfor2

[Katrinad]

Do we really care if someone is an "imposter" or not. The simple fact is that when someone comes along to "stir the pot" intentionally or otherwise, we all learn so much from the responses, look at the great conversations that get started! There must be heaps of lurkers here, I did for a while, and I learned so much from everyone else. It's like being in a big group of people and sitting back and listening and learning, rather than being actively involved in the conversation. You learn heaps either way.
It's GREAT!!
Kat

[spitzlvr]

I agree with Kat. Even tho I am an adoptee, I lurk on all the forums. There are many times I want to comment, but usually supress the urge, because I am not sure how my posting in another forum will be taken. This was one of the exceptions, I HAD to say something. Ya know?

Mary

[Dad79]

1st off, I'm no fake, I'm as real as it comes, I was just offline for the last 5-6 hours.

The part about not planning to "read" came at the time that we where filling out forms, the question? Your philosophy on rasing children is...? I didn't want to read a book before I sent the forms in. I thought to myself, I may do that later, but I want to get the REAL WORK moving now. Don't agree? Tough, That's me-move forward, catch up as I go.

I talked with my wife for awhile this afternoon and it was good, we discussed the issue about disclosing adoption to the child and how important that is HERE. That conversation was instructive to me. You see my wife was born and raised in the former USSR...There the theory was the opposite, the people she knew who adopted NEVER disclosed that to a child, in fact a person could even be penalized by the law for doing so at that time. We hadn't discussed that before, so I can see how she HONESTLY and INNOCEMTLY came by her opinions...But hey, we're willing to learn, I just don't want to be rejescted our of hand while still learning.

If anybody is still willing to help us out, maybe you can suggest to me what are other attitudes or ideas that would raise this guy's "red flags", you see, I was born and raised in the USA, but I'm not really an American either. I never heard any English in my house growing up until I spoke it, all of the customs that I grew up with where Greek, not American, everything I celebrated and lived was Greek, not American, except Thanksgiving maybe, but that was only because it meant eating turkey and watching football played in Detroit...So I could say it's all Greek to me and mean it. So often times, I still feel out of touch with American customs or attitudes, then I marry a Russian immigrant!

I'd really apprciate any advice, show me the "red flags", maybe it is cheating, maybe I'm arrogant, but I still believe after all of this banter that we would make great parents and give a child a good home and we're not giving up. Thanks.

[Katrinad]

Dad79, you sound a little like my husband!! Things seem to be done VERY differently here in NZ. We fill out our application form, have police checks and referees who are contacted by the dept, and then have "Day 1" and "Day 2" a month apart to attend. We are given a booklet with articles and excerpts from books to read and have, I think, two or three meetings TOGETHER with the sw. Anyway, "Day 1", we were excited/nervous, walked into the room with 20 other couples, had open adoption explained and compared with closed. THEN had all the losses associated with adoption fired at us for most of the day. The losses, the shame, the guilt, the sadness, the...... Talk about deflate a balloon. Many if not most of us were deflated. My dh was pretty upset. He had a tramatic childhood himself, though not adopted. In his opinion WHERE IS THE JOY, WHERE IS THE LOVE. He also just gets in the car and drives. Listening to you, I hear the Venus/Mars thing!! (Dare I say a little of the Greek Mars thing? - just meaning I understand the very traditional values in many Greek households). As dh said to me "paralysis by over-analysis" and I said to him "jump in feet first". Men "do", women "think it through" A MIXTURE OF BOTH IS THE WAY TO GO!! (In my humble opinion). I apologise in advance if I offend anyone with my thoughts!!
Kat

[Volfe]

Well I must say, I bet dinner at your house is great Dad79! And the Greek does explain the arrogance issue... but not excuse it.

And yes I'm extremely cynical about fakes but forgive me for that, it happens. I too agree that this thread is a great learning tool for others who feel as you do.

Here is my comment on you. You say this guy is effiminate. You have made a major judgement call on this guy. My fear on that issue is... what if the child you adopt does not turn into the child you dreamed of? That is an issue of Loss in Adoption that generally should be addressed. There are others... read about them (The Open Adoption Experience and Raising Adopted Children are good books).

Can you release your judgemental attitude on people? Your machismo? What if you have a son and he wants to sew? Yanno. stuff like that too. What if he's gay? I mean, THINK about it.

From the birth mother point of view, you need to lose all that crap too. I mean, would I want a hard-nosed, immalleable, macho man to raise my child? No, can't say so. Can you take some woman you don't even know dictating your future? I mean, it IS her child you hope to raise. Can you LOSE your attitude about birth mothers being people who don't want their kids, who leave them in ORPHANAGES for god's sake??? Can you realize that your neighbor could be a birth mother, etc. Heck, I am well-off, intelligent, educated, in a career, etc etc etc... I am better off them many people I know. But every woman is different.

Yes, I was extremely po'ed when I read that orphanage post of yours (on top of the other stuff you wrote). You can vent and you can b*tch and moan but don't insult the women who place their children in adoption... not when you are hoping to adopt. Sheesh.

On the other hand I am glad to see everyone has great advice for you.

Maia

[Katrinad]

Maia, I am hiding behind my chair right now!!
Kat

[Volfe]

aww Katrina I love your opinions... Don't hide. I didn't write when I was mad at that guy. LOL. <cringe>


But man, I bet they have great dinners at his house!!! I LOVE mediterranean food (well some of it). That kid will be lucky

Me

[roxanna425]

in a fairly heterogeneous country like those comprising the former USSR you might be able to "get away" with not disclosing the fact that your child is not of your family. there was also the view here in the US, that if the child was happy why would they want to learn that they were adopted? well, we're not a heterogenous country, and all of that "live happily ever after" stuff has been fairly well disproven historically and academically. the child could have a genetic disorder that could force you to have to disclose adoption, they could find some of the adoption papers or a family member could disclose, the birth mother could decide at some point that she wants contact. there are many MANY reasons besides these that disclosure is important and neccesary. depending on the child they could look nothing like you and an open, accepting attitude will go farther in making them a part of your life than denial ever could. furthermore keeping the adoption a secret negates a basic fact about your child and keeping the secret just creates a skeleton in your closet. what family needs that? it sounds like both you and your wife should read a lot of the books that have been reccomeneded before you continue in the adoption process so you DON'T raise the red flags you speak of.

on the plus side it does sound like you have an open and communicative relationship with your wife. that's a very big +. and what a rich cultural heritage you'll be able to share, INCLUDING the child's own if they have a specific national, cultural or racial heritage that you know of.

[Katrinad]

I really get the feeling that the "telling about being adopted" issue isn't the issue. In typical male fashion he was moving through his checklist, and as he said, at that time they just simply hadn't thought about that aspect of adoption. Even as a humble female I have been known to rush ahead of myself and forget about the basics!!
Kat

[mj77]

Dad79,
I really do appreciate your honesty. I think it says a lot that you've admited that you have a lot to learn about adoption--and are willing to. I remember before getting started that having an adopted child would be just like a birth child--and in MANY ways it is. I never thought of waiting to talk about adoption though. I knew it would be just open dialogue in our home. I don't ever want my boys to recall the moment they learned they were adopted. I want them to know no different so it is normal to them. I had to break away from the mentality that my boys would be all ours too. I had to come to terms they have a history (as short as it was). It is and will always be a part of them. It is one of the things that make them who they are. There are some great books out there that are not boring reading that you might find helpful. I think it would be wonderful if birth parents would take parenting classes and read up on children BEFORE having children like adoptive parents typically do. Imagine that...

[Volfe]

I think it would be wonderful if birth parents would take parenting classes and read up on children BEFORE having children like adoptive parents typically do. Imagine that...

Mj I soooo agree with that for i think it would give kids better lives. So many know how hard life is at a young age and that's sad.

Me

[ddhuab]

I just wanted to add that if you are doing international adoption from Russia (I am just assuming that is what you are doing because of your wife's background, your mention of INS paperwork, and your reference to an orphanage) then it is even MORE important that you do some research. It is rare-to-impossible that you would get a newborn in international adoption, and even though babies seem to be coming home younger and younger, you DEFINITELY want to research issues of ATTACHMENT, INSTITUTIONALIZATION, and also the kind of medical red-flags that you may need to look out for in adoption from Eastern Europe. I am by no means saying it is a bad choice to adopt from those countries, but international adoption has many other built-in issues that are related to closed adoption (sometimes) and "toddler adoption" or "older children adoption" (sometimes) and the more information you have, the better.

You actually sound to me like you are pretty willing to be educated, and I applaud you. We are currently still completing the preliminary paperwork and it IS frustrating. You will find as the process goes on that it will be nice to have more information so that YOU can educate people around you, in your families and your social circle, who might (and probably will) say the "wrong thing" to you and or your child in the future. Being prepared will help you keep your temper AND realize that most people don't realize what they are saying (like when they ask about the child's "real" mother, asking you how much your child "cost you," etc.). My husband has recently had to educate one of his "friends" at work that we are not "buying" a baby. It is difficult to think clearly when your gut reaction is anger, so it helps when you have already seen the "politically correct" answers and reasons in print! (And that is not the same thing as preparing yourself with "correct" answers for the social worker. It is best to be completely honest with the SW and with yourself so that everyone can agree on the best way to prepare for the new member of the family).


Good luck and happy reading!

D.