[Katrinad]

By the way, my apologies to any CHAPS I may offend. At the end of the day, I am trying to convey that SOMEONE must take the leaders mantle, like it or not. Lead on MacDuff!
(I promise I am not nuts).

[amom4life]

{{{Patti}}},
I'm so glad that you came back and are reading and thinking this through the best you can.

I have been to an anti adoption site once and I will never go back. It is just incrediable the horrible things that they say and think. It does sound like these are the kinds of sites that your daughter has been to and chatting with the people there.

Actually it might be a good idea to just look at an anti adoption site so you can see what your daughter is seeing and hearing. Just don't try to talk or reason with these people at all, just look. But if you do go don't linger there for long or make it a habit believe me once is enough.

I hope that you're appointment tomorrow is the beginning of helping your family come back together. Please keep coming here for support and I'll be praying for your family.
Judy

[amom4life]

Patti,
I just saw this thread here on this forum pop up again and thought of you right away. It was started by an adoptee to encourage adoptive parents and adoptees. I hope it will be a blessing to you as it has to myself and others. This would also be great for your daughter to read sometime.

http://forums.adoption.com/t95993,15,1.html

Blessings!
Judy

[nikki27]

Patti,
I'm so glad to hear that you have worked through a lot of your emotions. I am very proud of you!!! I know that sounds cheezy, but I was very worried about you. Some posts stay with you. I believe your husband is feeling the same way you felt initialy. Probably, you have parented the same way and saw your family dynamics the same way too. Now, with chaos occuring it is especially important for you to be united. However, as tough as it is you need to put your daughter's situation/emotions first. Dad is acting out of defence (reasonably) but that is not what will allow your family life to continue with a sence of normality. For the sake of both your daughter's well-being they need to be at peace with adoption. The anti-adoption sites have harmed your family allowing lies to seep into your sweet daughter's mind. Now, it is up to you to turn the situation around. That is where all the wonderful advice other posters have previously written comes into play. You are her mother and she will look to you for all things so make her proud. Support her, the road that lies ahead is unmapped BUT very possiably could create a stronger
family based on trust, love and compassion. You are in my thoughts and prayers. I can tell you are a strong women.

Nikki

Patti,

I think pretty much, everthing has been said that has needed to be said. The only thing I want to add is how those anti adoption sites make me so angry!! They spew anger and hate aqnd don't reaize(or don't care) how much damage they are doing to some of the kids. 17 is an age that concrete thought is still prevelant, its either bad, or its good, nothing in between. Such a bad time to here such garbage from these people. They have screwed up your daughter because they are unable to see beyond themselves. THEY had bad adoption experiances, so they feel everybody else should too.

I think you are going to have to toughen up and show confidence in your parenting....You are not abductors and I would go toe to toe with anyone who called my parents that. My parents were not standing around a corner ready to kidnapp me....I was made available because my bmom was unable to parent. The problem with a closed adoption is that anything can be said...on either side...aparents or bparents...usally to benfit what ever position you are in....the adoptee gets lost in the feelings. In my mind, I am trully willing to listen and understand both sides ...AFTER....the adoptee is put first. Especially a 17 year old....many do not think like adults yet, they look it, may appear to act like adults but are not. They have NOT lived long enough to be an adult. Just look at out colledge campuses and see how the judgement is SOOO lacking....Because studies have shown that the judgement section of the brain is not totally devoped until 25 or so.....like everything else some mature faster then others.

Keep us updated on your situation...we are here to support you, most of us do respect your position as her PARENT....but there will always be someone waiting to undermine it.

BTW...we often have some of those antiadoption people lurking and trying to inflitrate there own hate here. we are pretty good at seeing it and running them off

[Volfe]

Patti,

Glad you've read - and absorbed - much of our advice We really do care that you and your family have a good outcome. When you go see the Dr., please give your husband/ family time to absorb it all, like you did. Just let it seep in

Why don't you crank up the laptop you took away and check out the browser history? It would be beneficial to see what information you are dealing with. In Microsoft Explorer you can just go to the top of the screen, Click View> Explorer Bar > History

I don't condone snooping BUT as a parent, I do condone knowing what your kids are into (I myself have learned Pokemon, Neopets, and checked out MANY websites).

Was she calling you an abductor or an adopter? Both are common useages on the anti-adoption front.

And also, don't assume this bmother was a needy teen. Be open to the idea that maybe she was a grown woman with another child, or had an affair, or... In other words, don't prepare for one situation and then not feel prepared for any other....

Maia

[wroughtnharv]

By the way, my apologies to any CHAPS I may offend.

I'm chapped. I thought it was just a plain old heat rash from sweating like a fat lady going to weigh while blacksmithing. But I see clearly now. It's your fault. I'm offended.

[wroughtnharv]

Patti,

Step back and look at your relationship with your daughter. Is there anyway that ya'll have an established dance let's say that the two of you do?

She says or does something that irritates you. You jump on her like a bad coat of paint. She has a hissy fit. You have a hissy fit. And both of you retire to your respective corners hurt and disappointed?

Let's say for the sake of discussion this is so.

What if you ignored her invitation to this dance? She comes in and gives you the cue, does the thing that sends you up the wall.

You ignore it. Think of this as a dance. She's turned on the music and offered her hand. You act like you didn't see the invitation.

Of course she's going to turn the music up just in case you might not have heard it. Then she'll get in your face if turning the music up didn't work.

This turn of events will confuse her. It will also give you an opportunity to change the music and the rhythm of the dance. And maybe, just maybe, allow your relationship with her to go to another level.

Overtime ya'll have found a place together that's painfull for both of you. But you're both more comfortable there than you would be in a place where one or the other or both of you feel vulnerable.

It's sorta funny about that vulnerable stage of a relationship. It's when we grow or are lost. Not unlike an insect that has to shed it's skin to grow and while doing so is prime pickin's for the predators.

So change the rules. Become vulnerable, grow, or stay where it's painfull.

hope this helps, harvey

[Brat]

This thread made me well up, and like the previous poster, I'm no cry baby either.

At the end, all I can think of is this: what a gift and what an opportunity. I think you're starting to see it...that is what is bringing on the tears.

Give your hubby time. As you know, it takes a while to let go of firmly held beliefs, in your case, both about parenting, and about how you became parents.

I have a friend who waited until he was 40 to look for his birthmother. I'll tell his story because what once was just between just he, my hubby and I and a few others in our circle, he's proudly communicated widely now.

My friend had a happy childhood, and his parents made him feel proud that he was adopted. They told him all they knew about his birthmom and birthdad, and he told me he never felt a desire to seek them out. He didn't want his parents to feel that their love wasn't enough.

His adoptive mom died when he was in his 30s, and he and his wife had their first child shortly thereafter. Now that his mother passed away, he told me that he felt it was no longer "disrespectful" to seek out his birthmom. Along with wanting the medical history for his child, he was curious and wanted to talk to her, just once, to ask her why. He said "she gave me away" and I could see in eyes how much that hurt. I told him that there could have been any number of reasons she made this decision, and that it must have been hard. But I can't walk in his shoes, and I couldn't tell whether what I said had any resonance.

When my husband and I began the adoption process, we leaned on him to help us to understand how it felt to be an adoptee. Though he communicated an excellent upbringing, and amazing love from his mom and dad, I couldn't help but think how much richer his life would have been to not have to stuff all the questions he must have had about his background into a safe little secret box.

Finally, this year, he sought out his birthfamily and found them. He was overjoyed to meet his siblings. However, the one person who he wanted to ask, "why?" his birthmother, had died. And now he is curious whether his mom would have minded the search, and he cannot ask her either.

What a gift your daughter has: two mothers who are concerned about her well-being, and who are alive, and who can answer the questions that have been stirring in her, covertly, for 17 years. There is another mother out there, no doubt as nervous about all this as you are. What an amazing support you can be to one another as you help your daughter, together, to explore who she is. An agency can do the work of closing an adoption at the request of the adults involved...but I think sometimes adoptive parents get the impression that that act closes a child's heart to his or her other family. No agreement on paper can do that, neither can a change of address, or abject silence.

You must have done a good job in raising your daughter into a respectful, lovely young woman, otherwise her behavior now would not be so abhorrent to you. You can't even wrap your mind around it, I'm sure. I'm praying that the result of all of this is that you find in her birthmother an advocate as you both help your daughter develop into a healthy, whole adult. Rather than come between you and your daughter, it's more likely that she'll want to embrace you for doing such a good job with her. It's just as likely that everything you love about your daughter, you will come to love in her birthmom. Realize how exciting it may very well be to meet a whole other family who wants to know all of you, and while you thought you were losing, your whole family may be gaining.

I'm sorry if I sound like Polly Anna. Sometimes these triad relationships can be difficult. But when they're good, they're really good.

I'm glad you came here, I'm glad your family is getting help, and I'm glad your daughter's birthmom reached out to you. In time, I'm going to pray you will be, too.

wroughnharv,

Loved your post and it is so true ...that can be excatly what it is like parenting teens. It is a dance and we as the adults are "supposed" to ALWAYS be the mature and all knowing .... most of us know that is a real joke because We are all just human and sometimes our less then desirable traits come out in the worst of times. I have an 18 year old son that is very adept at pushing my buttons.....we clash alot....I will keep your analogy of the dance in mind next time. Funny, my other children I can usually say and do the right thing....I think he and I are very much alike and are very good at pressing each others buttons!!

Patti, I think wroughnharv post does aaply to you because she may be pushing real hard as kids will do as a test of your love for her,,,who knows...but hopefully your visit with the doc helps. Is this doctor knowledgable in adoption?

Brat,

Awesome post. Your children are very fortuante to have such a sensetive and caring mom.

Donna

[MNelson]

Patti --

I would highly recommend not visiting the anti-adoption websites, but instead just listen to what your daughter's impressions and feelings are. Otherwise, you will come to the table with preconceived notions of what she might have read, and be dismissive of it all as "crazy talk". What if instead she just read a story about a birthmother who was was coersced into relinquishing her baby, and the adoptive parents were culpable in that? Sure that has happened, but that's not what happened in your family. That is the only thing that is important for you to know.

Continue to use this forum to vent ... but please don't use terms like "crazy talk" when COMPREHENDING what your daughter is saying to you.

I'd also like to mention that you won't want to shut out your younger daughter from the topic. Eventually you need to bring her into the family discussion so that she 1) doesn't only get her information from her sister, and 2) she doesn't feel shut out of the only family she knows. That could plant seeds of distrust and even greater longing for her birthfamily.

Best wishes for open hearts in your family.

[Brat]

Donna,

Thank you. Now please don't get me started on the tears again...

B.

[79nic]

excellent points, plareb. (how are you, btw?)

Patti...

I am sooo happy that you are still reading and posting, and that you all are going to a counselor or psychologist.

It sounds like you are really trying to help your daughter through this.

Your post has really stuck w/ me, too.

To be honest... it's not really the bmom I am concerned about, despite the fact that I'm a bmom. I do think it's likely she just wants to know how your daughter is, whether she had a good life, etc. And it would be nice if she could have that reassurance.

But really, it's YOUR family that has touched me. Your daughter's questions are all so natural... many adoptees have questions....

And on top of that, at 17, she's probably about to go through one of the most difficult times of life--young adulthood. I KNOW I couldn't have made it to 25 without an open, communicative relationship with my parents. So I'm so glad to hear that you all are going to counseling to help you communicate.

One last thing...

All this week she has called me "abductor".

OUCH. Had to catch my breath when I read that. That must have hurt you so much....

You are NOT an abductor, you are a MOM. HER mom. I am so sorry she said that to you. I would wager, deep down, she knows that's not true. But I know that must have hurt you.

(((hugs)))
Nicole

[Volfe]

Patti -

This is a really well-written letter from an adoptee, to her parents, for her reasons for searching. I think it might give you some insight to what your daughter feels in relation to her birth mother, and about you (deep down good stuff). I always enjoy reading it...

http://www.geocities.com/tmusso.geo/mom_dad.html

Maia

[nugget]

Holy Cow is there a way to show this letter to the world!!! To put the feelings in words, to make another understand, to not feel so alone.......the courage to share what some of our very fragile souls hold in so tight. Unconditional love.