[Shoshana]

Seems to me that the majority of responses on this thread were from adoptive parents and adoptees! I didn't read PattiPanCakes post as asking for merely a place to vent but rather for opinions and help. I haven't seen one post on this thread that was out of line or what I would call an attack. Yes, there were strong feelings because many of us (the adoptees anyway) have been in very similar situations.

As people have said over and over, venting and support only makes for a very shallow interaction.

I'm not sure what other sites where birthmothers vent has much to do with what we're talking about here. Perhaps someone knows of a closed adoptive parents only board - This forum's management has been very clear that ALL members of the triad are allowed to post on any of the topics.

[raisinette]

never said they weren't allowed, just show some compassion.

[iangeleyes]

I do want you to know that I am sorry for what you are feeling right now. I am sure that you feel threatened by the unknown. However, I am also a birthmother, and I would love nothing more to see my son, who is now 19 years old. My thoughts are of only his happiness. I just want to know that he has been happy and has had a good life by parents who love him. I did not give my son up because I did not love him or because I was on drugs, or doing anything else illegal...but, I do love him. I, myself, would never want to go between my son and his parents. It hurts me to say, but they were the ones who were there when he fell and hurt his knee, they were the ones there who taught him to drive, they were the ones there with his first heartbreak....the list could go on. I believe most birthmoms are like myself or at least I hope so), just want to know the child they gave birth to, who is a part of them, has been in their heart all these years also, but they want to know they are all right, and if possible, be included in their life now, not as their mom, they have one, but as a dear and loving friend. I pray that everything works out for you all. I do hope that you and your daughter can come together, work together and become the friends again I'm sure you are. I will keep you all in my prayers, and will not only pray for a happy ending, but the wisdom to get you there.

[raisinette]

What a very sweet, insightful post.

[wanttobeparents]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm an adoptive mom to two boys, ages 10 months and 3 years, 10 months. The younger son's adoption is fully open, the older one is semi-open.

It's very important that you talk to your daughter, but more importantly, listen to her. Listen to her reasons for wanting more information. Ask her what she would like to know about her birthmother. Ask her what she would like her birthmother to know about her. Talk to her about adoption in general. Open the channels as much as possible. Read all you can about open adoptions and birth parents. Get as comfortable as possible with all of this so that you can talk about it without choking up or showing fear.

Since she is already 17, she will look for her soon with or without your permission. Wouldn't it be better if she had your support in this? Ease her into the relationship with you along rather than having her go it alone next year. There's nothing wrong with your protective instinct kicking in, just keep it under control and don't show your fear unless you know that there is danger. Perhaps you can both write a letter to her together, telling all the things you think she might like to know about your daughter. Help your daughter put into words the things she would like to know about her birth family.

Worse case: Suppose that her birth mother is a drug addict. Your daughter will look for her soon. Do you want to be by her side, or left behind to wonder if your child is safe?

Best case: She is a healthy, well adjusted woman that wants to make sure that your daughter is healthy and happy. She may have medical information that could be valuable to your daughter one day. She may be just one more person that loves your child. A child can never have too many people that love her.

Never say anything derogatory about either birth mother. Your daughters do not need to hear that. They need to know that you love them with all your heart, and that there are two women out there somewhere that are thinking about them and loving them as well.

You cannot be replaced as your child's mother. But just as a mother can love more that one child, a child can love more than one mother. It does not take anything away from you for her to love the woman that gave birth to her. Instead, if you are by her side helping her, it will show your love for her, and increase the love and respect your child will have for you.

Imagine that you gave birth to a child, relinquished her for adoption and never knew whether or not she was even alive. You think of her every day, you worry every time there is a news report about abuse or the death of a child that could be the same age. Think of what a letter from that child would mean to you. Just the relief that she grew up happy and healthy would mean the world to you.

Since your daughter has already found anti-adoption sites, look for some adoptee support sites and books that will help broaden her view on adoption. It sounds like she is already worried about her birth mother. Find out the truth, and the only way to do that is to allow contact.

Best of luck to you. You are welcome to pm me if you need to chat more.

Peggy

[Leigh131313]

I just wanted to thank you for your post...

I'm an adoptive mom of a five month old son. Our adoption is an open adoption, and I really like my sons birthfamily. We get along great, visits are always fun and when they leave I am always glad they came....they are VERY respectful of ours and their role in my sons life...they are super people.

That being said.....every now and then i get that lil pang of insecurity that i think all adoptive moms get. Before visits i get antsy and edgy....I worry about if my son will be too fussy with them.....i worry that he won't. I worry that I will not be the mother he wants or needs.

Your post has reminded me why i so desperately needed an open adoption. The only thing worse than the fears i have now, are the fears you are having now. I think the unknown is a scary thing... It is inevitable that my son would one day want to know his biological history. I know this is not anything to do with me, or his feelings towards me...it's just a part of him that he would want to know. I think years of building up what his birthmother may or may not be would be much harder on him and myself, rather than seeing the reality of the situation. He will see clearly that he came from a loving family into another loving family. He will see that his birthmother is a real person, good points and faults. He will never question how she feels or doesnt feel about him....

For me, i am glad that my son will not spend any time fantasizing of who is birthmother is, good or bad. I am also glad that he will never see any negativity surrounding his adoption, he will never feel he was stolen or that we tricked anyone to get him. Having her around...supporting us as his parents...almost makes me feel more entitled to have the title Mommy.

Ok..i babbled on there.....My point was to thank you for being honest, it reminded me of a road i may have gone down. How does that poem go about the two roads diverging? Years ago your path would have seemed the easier of the two....I see it differently now.

I wish you contentment in your journey.
Leigh

[Kelli]

Do you honestly believe that PattiPanCakes will feel better right now after knowing that YOU are grateful that YOU are not in her shoes ??? That YOU are not living out those fears right now??? That YOUR child will be PRESUMABLY so much better off? Why would a stranger's honesty make you feel better about the choices YOU have made? All that's missing is the na, na, na, na, na!!! And then wishing her "contentment in her journey" when that "journey" right now consists of fear and confusion?

Sorry all . . . I don't usually respond to stuff that I don't like, but I just had to say this, because it seemed so unusually cruel (whether intentional or not), especially to a first time poster who was asking for advice. PattiPanCakes, fortunately you received lots of good "food for thought" and solid "advice" from the rest of the members here and there is really not anything different that I would add.

Wishing you a peaceful heart,

Kelli

[tsdaily]

I am really sorry that your family is going through this right now and this is your worst nightmare. It is hard to give advice unless you have been in the same situation, so I won't pretend to understand what you are going through. I do know that my husband adopted my third child at 5 months because my ex wanted nothing to do with him and we dread the day we have to tell him. I would talk with your daughter and help her to make a decision that she could be happy with and know that in you are always in her heart and that there could never be another mother like you.

[PattiPanCakes]

I am really trying very hard to understand where you all are coming from but it is still almost unbeleiveable.
So I am suppose to HELP her do something that might rip our family apart? I don't know too much about all this open adoption stuff and maybe I should. Really, the fact that the girls were adopted is not something that we talk about often. It doesn't matter to us how they came to us, they are 100% our girls. This wasn't supposed to be an open adoption and none of this was suppose to happen. That's what we wanted and that's what we had. I just don't understand how someone cn just change the rules on a whim and expect everyone else to go along with it.
Maybe she does just want to know that R is happy, but do I get any say in that? Do I know that writting her a letter will not be opening the door to something horrid? Right now I do not feel very trusting as she has already broken the rules. She knew what she was getting into when she gave that baby up. How is it my problem that she wants to know now?
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but a **** has broken in our house! She didn't come home last night and was back on the computer at her friends!! THis afternoon she reuturned and She threw a huge stack of papers at me with all these horrible stories on them screaming on "How do I sleep at night knowing what I have done to her mother" I AM her mother!!
We have made an appointment with someone recommended by our doctor, but I can't beleive this has happened. We have never had any need to go to any head doctors before.
We have always had respect in our house. The girls have always behaved appropiatly. It would just not do for me to go back on my word now. Her father would never allow it. He has said that she cannot have any contact until she is an adult. And that is the way it is. She will just have to get over it and be patient if its that important to her. I just don't know how to get her to see that. It has nothing to do with how I feel. I want what is best for her. And it is best this way.
Thank you for the advice about a lawyer.
I'm sorry maybe no one can help me.

[iangeleyes]

I mean, really....that baby??? I am not meaning to be harsh, but "that baby" is your daughter. You stated she didn't come home last night....do you think this might be the last time?? If she has done this once, she will do it again. I would hope she wouldn't do it on a permenant basis. There are so many run-away teens out there. I know you don't want this to happen here. I would certainly hate to think she might do this, but how do you know. Would you want to chance this?? Why not read over the posts again. Most everyone here was telling you to help your daughter through this. Ask for non-id info....find out why her birth mother placed her for adoption. I know in my case, it was not really what I wanted, but more of what my parents were saying as the "right thing, best thing to do". Please don't let this come between you and your daughter. I know that you are frightened, but it doesn't have to be this way. You can either take this journey together or apart. It'll be your choice. Unfortunately, for you, this door is open, and will be something I'm afraid you won't be able to close. So now is your chance to choose the path that you will take. Don't be afraid of her birthmother. She is only human....she can't take away the fact that you are actually your daughters mother. You have been for 17 years. She can't take your daughter, but you may push your daughter to her. Be your daughter's friend now. Help her. She is probably hurting now also. She really does need YOU!

[blueyes113]

PattiPanCakes,
Please think about what you were like when you were 17, going to be a Senior in High School. It's been quite awhile for me, but I certainly felt like an adult. I wanted to be treated with respect and have my emotions validated. I wanted to make my own decisions. I think this is what your daughter is looking for. She was left out of a decision that concerns her life, her very origin. She has found information that confuses and scares her about adoption, about how her adoption might have occurred. She's probably scared that the parents she has always known and loved might have done something dishonest, something she could never have imagined them doing. I'm afraid that this fear will rip your family apart and the only thing that can allay this fear is to let her write to her birthmother. Let her birthmother write to her and tell her that she was not coerced by you. You can do it all through the social worker with no identifying information. Your daughter can get the answers she needs to trust you once again. And I'm afraid those two emotions, fear and lack of trust, are all that is controlling your daughter right now. If you want to do what is best for your daughter you need to talk to her and find out what she is feeling. Find out what she would want to ask her birthmother. And the two of you need to sit down together and write a letter to the birthmother to get these questions answered. Not helping her will rip your family apart much faster than supporting her. You are her Mom and nothing will change that. Her birthmother will not change that. But you telling her that "She will just have to get over it" will change that. You will push her away. She's not going to get over it. If you don't address these fears now, they will keep growing, and they will probably overshadow her entire life. She won't be able to concentrate in school and all your dreams about college will be shattered.
You stated at the end of your post that maybe no one can help you. You received a lot of good advice that you obviously don't want to hear. True, no one can help you make this situation go away. It's a situation that you created when you kept the phone call away from your daughter. A situation you fed by not talking to your daughter as soon as you realized she had overheard your conversation. A situation you compounded by taking her computer away and again not discussing what she had found. Only you can help this situation. Only you can sit down with your daughter and talk. Only you can apologize (yes, apologize) for not including her in the discussion and decision making process after the phone call. Unless you are willing to meet her halfway, you may lose her forever. I am very glad that you are going to get counseling. I think you may be very surprised at the direction it will take.
God Bless your family as you sort this all through.

[Kelli]

PattiPanCakes, there are a couple of things you said that I would like to respond to. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I do not say this as an advocate of fully open adoptions, but I don't think it makes a difference one way or another.

It doesn't matter to us how they came to us, they are 100% our girls. Yes, they are the girls that you have loved and raised but there should be no denying the fact that they joined your family through adoption. And that is not necessarily something one thinks about on a daily basis but that simple fact will always remain true.

I just don't understand how someone cn just change the rules on a whim and expect everyone else to go along with it. It really doesn't sound like she was changing the rules on a whim and though 17 years may have gone by quickly to you, those 17 years may have been extremely long and painful for her.


Do I know that writting her a letter will not be opening the door to something horrid? No, but do you have reason to believe that this may be the case? If so, I would understand this better, but if your only belief is based on meaningless stereotypes then I think it's time you let those go for your daughter's sake. Why would you want to believe that the daughter you love so much was born to a "horrid" woman without information stating as such? Isn't the reverse also true, that you may be opening the door to something wonderful for your daughter's sake?


She knew what she was getting into when she gave that baby up. How is it my problem that she wants to know now? Again, do you know for a fact that she knew what she was getting herself into? Do you know her story? And if she did make a fully consensual decision to place her child for adoption, that does not mean that she was fully prepared for the lifelong feelings associated with that decision. As a mother yourself, you can probably sympathize with the feeling of loss and worry that may continue in her heart. And I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but it's your problem now because you're being faced with some choices that could effect your daughter's life and your relationship with her.

It has nothing to do with how I feel. I am not judging you but I think it's important for you to be honest with yourself and admit that the situation does have a lot to do with how you feel. And I'm not here to say that that is necessarily wrong, but it's apparent to me from this post and your orignal one that what you are feeling now is very much coming into play.

I want what is best for her. And it is best this way. If it's not only your fear that is keeping you from writing a letter, then I can only assume from this statement that you have additional information that would warrant your saying this.

I'm sorry maybe no one can help me. I hope the counselor will be able to bring peace to all of your lives!

Best wishes,

Kelli

[Kelli]

Leigh131313, please accept my apology for overreacting to your post.

. . .now back to the regularly scheduled thread . . .

[amom4life]

You say that all of this has nothing to do with how you feel but what you think is best for your daughter. From what I've read in your posts this has EVERYTHING to do with YOUR feelings and you haven't given any thought to your daughter's feelings or thoughts. She IS a person NOT a possession.

If you don't want to hear the sound advice you have gotten here and accept the support we're offering that is your choice. I will tell you though that if you continue down the path you have chosen you will lose your daughter's respect and trust. You have handled this situation poorly, insensitively, and selfishly.

Sometimes support is much better for a person when it comes with truthful insights instead of just what the recipient wants to hear.

Yes I'm being blunt, but you need to hear the truth and part of that is YOU are the one ripping your family apart. I hope you can see this before it's too late.
Judy

[sugarbabysmommy]

We could all talk till we are blue in the face and still you will say maybe no one can help you. You have not heard what you were looking for therefore we can not help. No one is here is intending to be glib, hurtful, or intending to diminsh you in any way, we are all trying to help you. No one here has suggested that you have an open adoption, not even close. We are suggesting you exchange information, information that is beneficial to you to know who you're so afraid of, information beneficial to your daughter to know something essential to her being, where and who she came from.

Do you know the circumstances of your daughter's adoption? Unfortunatley you are in the position of being found guilty by your daughter and now have to prove yourselves innocent. No it's not fair, it is painfull and deaming, but it's where you're at. If you don't know your daughter's story, or any of her birthmother's story, can you find any of it out from the agency?

Print out what you've read here, read it again and again. Get the books I PM'ed you about. While your daughter is out there "educating" herself, you should be too. We all fear what we do not know.

Why is this your problem that her birthmother wants to know now? Well this is YOUR daughter we're talking about, that's why.

If we sound like we are being hard on you, the medium of the forum gives little time for small talk and get to know you chit chat, so we are all cutting to the heart of the matter.

I'm sorry for all the turmoil in all your lives, but mostly for your daughter. I hope you all are able to heal and learn to move past your fears, or at least how to deal with them.

Good luck. Remember, no one who has responded to you did so casually. People have reached out to you because they care and want to help.