[texasmom-to-be]

We're not matched yet, but have been talking to a woman whose situation has prompted me to ask this question of the forum, before we really have to deal with it.

If you know that a birthfather, with whom the birthmother is no longer romantically involved, is opposing the adoption plan, what should you do? My gut feeling says to ask for a meeting with the birthfather to discuss the situation and find out how serious he is about fighting the adoption and also talk about how open adoption can be beneficial to all parties. I think my agency, however (and I'm only guessing at this and haven't asked them point blank) would prefer I just deal with the birthmom and let them deal with the birthfather situation.

What do you think? I don't want to spend the first year of our child's life in a legal battle. Nor do I want to pay a huge amount of birthparent expenses, only to not be able to adopt this baby because the birthfather is asserting his rights to parent the child. Finally, I think that if a bio parent has the means and the desire to parent the child, they should have that right. Otherwise, are we not somehow stealing that child from them?

[taurusgal29]

I don't really have a good answer to your question. Do you have any more information about the birthfather? In our case, the bfather expressed a desire to parent, but we think that it's more a matter of his thinking that by fighting it, he'll be able to get out of jail for court battles.
If he does have the means and truly wantes to parent the child, I would say that as tough as it is to hear, he does have that right. And before you get too involved both financially and emotionally, I would really think about that.
I've always felt that whatever is meant to be will happen. I'll be hoping that it turns out that way in your case.
Best of luck to you--
Sally

[cathy102]

Ok, you said that you are not matched yet with the expectant parents. I would let the Agency deal with the expectant parents IF they chose the Adoption plan. It's not your responsiblity to sit them down and discuss how open you want to be. You said that you have been talking to the expectant mom. Even though the couple are not together, the birthfather has a right to decide if he wants to parent. I wouldn't push this couple into anything (which I am sure you are not doing). Just let the Agency handle the situation, that is why we pay them their fee. There is always a chance when you pay living or medical expenses and the mom or dad wants the adoption plan, they could possible change their minds.. That is the risk that we take.. And if they decided to let you parent, how is that stealing their baby?

I'm sure I wasn't much help.. Sorry..

Cathy

[texasmom-to-be]

Let me clarify...if they let us parent the child, it is NOT stealing their baby. I'm saying that if the agency pressures the birthfather into relinquishing because the birthmother wants him to, that doesn't seem right.

[NanaC]

<<<I'm saying that if the agency pressures the birthfather into relinquishing because the birthmother wants him to, that doesn't seem right.>>>

Well, it *isn't* right. It is wrong.

Many agencies do try to pressure fathers into surrendering. It happened to my son.

Quite often what they call "trying to help the birthfather (who isn't even a birthfather yet) to see the benefits of adoption" is really just coercing him. The coercion my son was exposed to was unbelievable.

The bottom line is...no matter how many "benefits" everyone else believes there are to adoption, some people just aren't interested and that is their perogative. It is particularly horrific when an agency insists the father has some sort of moral obligation to surrender just because the mother wants to surrender, and he can't be proven unfit.

If the father says he isn't interested in surrendering, the agency needs to TAKE THE HIGH ROAD and cut the situation loose. If they really want to do the right thing, they can help the expectant couple, individually or as a couple, to find resources that will assist them in figuring out what they *are* going to do, considering that the father isn't surrendering. People in situations like this can greatly benefit from counseling, mediation, parenting classes geared towards separated/divorced parents, and individual legal advice.

[michellemartin]

My bf didnt want to relinquish our child. I would suggest meeting with the bfather alone and also with the bmom. My bf, had he gone alone, probably would have spoke up to the counselor about his strong desire to parent. I let her know I wasnt sure he'd sign. I truly wasnt sure he would. I very much pressured him into his decision. He would be a single parent right now had he not signed. I was very set that I didnt want to raise another child. I did inform him of all the things that would be available to him if he wanted to raise her alone, but I wouldnt have been with him anymore. Had I been the aparents in our situation and known how he felt, I wouldnt adopt the baby. I, too, would have felt terrible about "taking" a baby that the parent didnt want to relinquish.

[amom4life]

I agree that neither expectant parent should be pressured into relinquishing their child. Just because the expectant mother isn't with the father and doesn't feel she can raise the child doesn't mean the father shouldn't have the right to if he wishes. That is as long as he's not a danger to the child and has the support and means to raise the child himself.

To me it's actually a breath of fresh air when a man desires to step up and care for his child with so many dead beat dads out there these days.

I also agree that you should let your agency handle the situation instead of you.
Judy

[79nic]

texas-mom-to-be,

I am sure it must be really scary, and probably heartbreaking, for a prospective aparent to be in a situation where 1. they are matched with a birthmother, but 2. the birthfather does not want to relinquish. I can only imagine how agonizing that must be, for the p-aparents.

However... I think it is absolutely NOT wise to sit down with a bfather and point out the benefits of adoption. Frankly... I don't think that's agency's job, either; it's certainly NOT the potential aparents' job.

My feeling is this: if the birthmother wants the adoption to take place, it is her responsibility to talk to an unwilling birthfather. For any agency or p-aparent to do so would be unwise and (in my humble opinion) immoral. (In the case of rape or some other horrific experience, then I'd grant the agency the right to speak for the birthmom.. but still not the p-aps.)

If you think about it, before a child is born, if the pregnant woman wants to make an adoption, and the bio father does not, then the dispute is really this: a difference of opinion, between two parents, on how their child should be raised.

Does that sound like something any agency or any other outsider should be involved in resolving?

Let the expectant mom and dad work it out. Frankly, if he does not want to sign, and someone pressures him to do so, his rights are being violated (I realize you're not talking about pressuring, but it could come off this way), and... if he could prove in a court, later, that he was coerced into signing, he could be awarded custody. Surely not a legal mess you'd want to be involved in...

Last... talking about the benefits of open adoption as a means for convincing ANYONE to sign (be it a pregnant woman or the bio father) is, to me, not quite wise. While there is nothing wrong with pointing out the benefits of open adoption to someone already considering signing, or bringing it up for the FIRST TIME to someone who's reluctant to sign due to an old-fashioned view of adoption, open adoption should never be the final selling point for adoption (again, in my humble opinion). If the bio father is not convinced that someone else raising his kids is best, then... the type of adoption he chooses is obsolete. No father (or mother) should relinquish unless they feel it's truly best for the child. The seed--the germ--of an adoption plan should come from this thought, this idea--

I'm not anti-adoption, DEFINITELY not open adoption (very pro-openness, actually), but... I just don't think this is a good tactic to take.

Hope I did not offend you. I think your intentions are honorable (help the birthmother with her adoption plan), but I just don't think it's a good idea to get involved.

Good luck with your journey!

(Hugs),
Nicole

[amom4life]

Great post Nicole! I do agree with you now because it does make so much sense for the expectant parents to work it out together and that would be best.

However what if they can't work it out? I think they would need help. Not to educate the expectant father on thre finer points of adoption, but to help them come to a workable solution. Perhaps a counselor would be more suited for this than an agency.
Judy

[DianeS]

Personally, I see a great deal of difference between a birthfather who "opposes the adoption" and a birthfather who "wants to parent his child". Although the two can mean the same thing, they can also be worlds apart.

I, again personally, would need to know if the birthfather were opposing the adoption because he's capable and willing and wanting to parent the child himself, or if he's opposing it because he thinks the birthmother or other family member -anyone but him- should parent the child.

Just a different perspective.

[michellemartin]

I still think you should meet the bfather. Not to sell him on open adoption, but just to know if he really wants to parent the child. Kara's parents may never know that my bf wanted to. They were never able to meet with him alone, and I doubt he would ever bring it up with me present. He's comfortable with it now, and even felt in the end that it was the best for her, but if I were a p-aparent, I would want both parties to be comfortable with their decision. I'm not talking about selling the adoption idea here, but if you know he's not comfortable, then I would think for it to be a time to step back. I totally agree that it is something that should be worked out between the b-parents. An agency is definitely not the place for a p-birthfamily to go for counseling. I feel that they should only be there if that is going to be the outcome to the situation. If one wants to parent and the other one does not, I dont think either parent should then be talking to an agency. If I had to go back and do it all over again... I'd still sign, and I'm sure bf would have also, but I think I would have been a bit more diplomatic with him. In my case we're still together, and I feel the right thing for the agency to have done would be to have stepped back for a bit until he was more comfortable with the adoption.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Well--I have to say that in either situation I think that the father should make the choice! Either way, he is financially responsible for the baby. It is unfair for a Mother to push adoption because she doesnt want to raise the child AND SHE doesnt want the father to raise the child either. That is not her place to decide. (IMO)

A father can get just as much help to raise his child as a mother can (WIC, medical, daycare, etc.) It isnt fair for him to have to live up to a different standard or any standard that a mother would never have to meet! And I just dont think that it is fair to 'put him on the spot' by meeting face to face with the people who want to raise his baby, unless he requests it. I didnt even meet my daughter's parents until after she was born!! What if I changed my mind?? I would have had HUGE guilt and that guilt would have clouded my decision. I agree with Nic--this is between the MOTHER and the FATHER! It isnt anyone's place to step in...the agency should say to come back when they get it all straightened out! ( I Know that wont happen -- but it should!)

Christine

[michellemartin]

You're right, the father shouldnt ever have to meet with either the agency or the family if he doesnt want to, and especially if he plans to parent the child. I guess I was coming from a different perspective. I would hope, though, that if a pacouple meets with a pbcouple and one of the 2 dont seem happy with the adoption, to step back and let them work it out. In the case of dead beat dads (or dead beat moms for that matter) who wont be around to lend any support to their child, and just dont want to sign because they want the woman/ family/ anyone but them or a pacouple to raise the child... Now thats a different story. There is a girl in my area- a few yrs younger than me and the bfather of hers will be in jail for at least 4 more years, he wont sign. What's he going to do? Have the baby room in with him till he gets out?

[NanaC]

<<<However what if they can't work it out? I think they would need help. Not to educate the expectant father on thre finer points of adoption, but to help them come to a workable solution. Perhaps a counselor would be more suited for this than an agency.>>>

Mediation is, imo, a really good place for couples in this situation to work through the issues. That is of course, assuming that they just need to work through the particulars of getting the child raised, since there will be no adoption. Sometimes it is not productive to spend alot of time on how everyone feels, or why they are doing this or that, and mediation is good for those situations. It is focused on ironing stuff out, not analyzing why you have the stuff to iron out.

Diane also made an interesting comment about fathers who are really motivated to raise their child, as opposed to fathers who just don't want their child adopted out but also don't want to take responsibility. This is a valid issue, but I do want to share that there is no lack of making it seem like the father wanting to be responsible is actually just trying to throw a wrench into a good plan, and has no intentions of being responsible. There are plenty of men who have had every intention of being responsible, who have been subjected to baseless accusations and insults from the agencies.

If we are perfectly honest here, we have to admit that not too many agencies enjoy running into a father who wants to raise his child, when the mother is willing to surrender. I mean, it isn't exactly good for business.

I wish everyone would sit back and imagine what kind of reception a father would get if he marched into an adoption agency and wanted to make an adoption plan for his unborn child, when the mother really wanted to parent. I'm never sure why it is so different when it is the other way around, as it so often is. I know there are alot of loser expectant fathers, but there are loser expectant mothers too, and last I heard, no one thought it was right that these fathers try to arrange an adoption in spite of the fact that the mother didn't want to.

I realize all things aren't exactly equal, but they are equal enough to realize that something just isn't right with this "helping the birthfather to see the light" business.

[amom4life]

Very good points NanaC.!
Judy