[spaypets]

Forgive me a minor rant...

But once again someone on another thread was complaining about the cost of adoption, saying that people are getting rich when all they want is a child, yada, yada, yada.

I realize that coming up with the money for many people is extremely difficult. But I am so thoroughly tired of people begrudging paying professionals for services rendered.

The agency I used is nonprofit, it has offices in four or five states and you know how much the highest paid person gets? About $68,000 for a regional director who is based in a very expensive city. There were only three people who earned more than $50,000. This at an agency that placed about 250 children in the year that I looked up.

Now, while $68,000 is a handsome salary, no one is getting rich off it. Comfortably middle class, maybe.

My brother paid more for his car than I paid for my international adoption (including travel!). I am constantly amazed that people would consider the fees charged in adoption unreasonable, considering the amount of work that goes into putting one together. Think of all the time it takes to do the paper work for a homestudy, then imagine what it's like to manage all those documents for a couple dozen people and still manage the other side of it, finding children.

There is a difference, IMHO, from saying you don't have the money and saying people don't deserve the fees you pay.

BTW, if your agency is non profit, you can view their 990s (tax forms) at guidestar.org. You will see how many children they placed and how much the top 5 people are earning. It's very informative stuff.

Ok, stepping off my soapbox.

[lucyjoy]

And US adoptions of waiting children are often free of all costs or only have minimal charges. (Sharing your soap box)

[tb1braswell]

I agree. These people work very hard to support expectant families, as well as adoptive families, throughout every aspect of the adoption. Yes, some adoptions are expensive. Dh and I were glad to pay the fees knowing that we are working with a top notch, non-profit agency and not one that makes promises they cannot keep. (this adoption is Dh's Ford F250 truck he's waiting patiently for) Dh and I also want to adopt an infant. I did contact DFACS, here in Georgia, to inquire about infant adoptions. They would gladly have put me on the waiting list for an infant behind the others that have been waiting since 1997!!!!

I know most of us are going into debt to have a baby. But the way I look at it is, if there was something else that I really wanted badly enought, I'd go get it (car, new house, etc...) I'm not going to begrudge someone their fees for the important work they do.

[rastachris]

And, if you add up the financial, physical and emotional costs of fertility treatments for each child, adoption may take a much lesser toll.

We chose adoption because we wanted to be parents and felt that we had a much greater chance at becoming parents that way than through IUI (four unsuccessful IUIs), IVF or other means. Two years of fertility treatments and no children. A year and a half and two adoptions later, and we're happy, busy parents to two amazing kids.

Not that I wouldn't love to get pregnant, and I still think about having the treatments that we postponed for our adoptions. But I'm a mom now and every penny was worth it to have our babies.

You bring up a good point, spaypets. People don't seem to be so worried about the cost of infertility - it's not the first thing that seems to come up. But it's usually the first thing people ask about when discussing adoption.

Also, a real estate agent can make up to 6% on the sale of a home. On a $500,000 (the median home price in San Diego) that's $30,000. That's a lot to pay a professional but most sellers and buyers gladly pay it for their professional services, to make sure the transaction goes smoothly. And $30,000 is more than most domestic and almost all international adoptions. Just thought I'd add some perspective.

Tina

[tb1braswell]

Tina,

I didn't even think of the costs of fertility treatments vs. adoption, but you are absolutly right. Dh and I chose not to go that route. We knew the risks and thought why spend $15-$18k per treatment with no quarantee of a baby when we will spend the same amount for adoption and definately come home with a baby.

By the way, your baby is absolutly precious!

Theresa

[lisa in venice]

I recognize that most of our fees go to very reasonable purposes BUT the system needs some tweeking. In international adoption I can think of one country in particular where professionals ARE getting rich where Attorneys are charging 4x what the best US Attorneys are charging. Now tell me that is not slightly unethical.

Non-profit flat fee agencies charge so much because they are provding social services to expectant parents of whom only a small percent place. That means we as adoptive parents are paying for needed social services for people for whom agencies can't recoup their costs. That is not fair. I beleive we need a better social safety net for expectant parents so that adoptive parents are not on the hook for thousands of doillars. Not to mention the ethical dilema of paying expenses in a private adoption situation.

lisa

[manon]

I adopted from an agency that only does international adoptions (well, maybe an occasional domestic one, but it's not their primary business), so I don't think the cost is related to providing social services to expectant mothers, at least not for this particular agency.

I have had the occasion to spend several hours at a time on several different days at the agency I adopted through. It's a small agency with one location, with active programs in basically 3 countries (with an occasional one in another country). The people who work there work very hard, stay on the phone a lot, deal with a tremendous amount of paperwork that comes in for a number of different families at different stages of their adoptions, and provide lots of telephone advice (and in-person advice) to families adopting through them or even thinking of adopting through them.

They take care of getting everything apostilled. I know some agencies make you do that yourself.

When I think of all the things I learned from them while going through the process of adopting my little girl from Russia, I feel like I got at least a year's worth of college education on adoption in general, international adoption & parenting, worth the fees for that in & of itself.

It's a not-for-profit too, and doesn't make a lot of money. Nobody there, including the director, makes a lot of money.

When I think of how stressed the people are they deal with on a daily basis, and they pretty much handle all that with a lot of tact and calm, I know I wouldn't want a job there! International adoption is a very frustrating process, with constant changes in procedure with INS (USCIS?) and with the Russian government. You have to be ready to go with the flow to get through an international adoption, but it's so important to each of us individually that sooner or later pretty much everybody has a meltdown at least once in the process due to frustration with the process.

When I read somebody post on another board saying he was ready to adopt from Russia & couldn't somebody just give him a phone number to call in Russia to get the adoption done himself instead of through an agency, I knew that person has no clue what all lies ahead & is unlikely to get through the process without the help of a good agency.

So I agree completely that a good agency is well worth the money.

[AMom2Two]

I am glad you said this because it bothers me also. Actually, I want to lash out at some of the threads that complain about the costs of adoption.

Most people will spend money on cars, houses, material items but when it comes to obtaining a child, they want it for free. Even my friends begrudge me because I choose adoption and not social services, therefore they say, I bought my child while her birthmother got nothing. Grrrrrrrrr

I am so sick of people not understanding that someone has to pay the money for the education and support given by adoption agencies. I also, only used a non profit agency. I have no problem paying them for services rendered.

So many people have no problem paying for infertility treatments but when it comes to adoption, they won't do it and worst, they judge those who do.

ps...this is not directed toward those who adopt from the system. Those who adopt from Foster Care are angels in my eye's.

[spaypets]

Non-profit flat fee agencies charge so much because they are provding social services to expectant parents of whom only a small percent place. That means we as adoptive parents are paying for needed social services for people for whom agencies can't recoup their costs. That is not fair.

I'm not sure I agree that it's unfair. When I adopted internationally, it was with the absolute knowlege that part of my adoption fee was going to support the orphans who remained behind. I consider it an act of charity -- and a balance to the supremely selfish thing I did by adopting a child.

Furthermore, we're always paying for those who can't pay. Everytime we pay a doctor or hospital bill, we're paying for the Medicare/Medicaid shortfall and the charity care and bad debt that providers assume when patients can't pay.

My taxes pay for those so-called "free" state adoptions and a host of other social services. I paid for education for years -- even though at the time I never thought I'd have a kid in school. Heck, my dog license pays to investigate and prosecute animal abusers--even if its not dogs that are being abused.

And my homestudy and adoption fees also helped subsidize the sliding fee schedule so those less fortunate than I could pay reduced adoption fees.

My point is that in life, we're always helping pick up the tab for those that don't have enough. Why should adoption be any different? I don't consider it unfair. I consider it the price for having a society where people have homes and food and clothes and are living in the highway medians like they do in India.

[lisa in venice]

Yes we are alway picking up the tab for those wo are less fortunate BUT I support univesal health care and free preschool, universal childcare for the working poor and left leaning , crunchy granola do gooder programs. I don't think it is fair for any small % of the population to assume the costs where we all as a society should be sharing.

lisa (your resident socialist )

[redhedded]

Interesting you should broach this subject, Spay. Since I joined this board 1 1/2 years ago, the discussion of adoption costs, without question, has been my greatest pet peeve. The complaint of cost, the "bargin hunting" and the sharing of personal financial choices in adoption followed by anger when an expectant mother chooses to parent makes me cringe; in some cases I have found it abhorrent.

We actively sought an agency (actually two) that provided ongoing counseling, extensive education for adoptive parents, paid potential birthmother expenses that were allowed including all birth expenses knowing full well that placement may or may not happen and that they (the agency) takes the loss. It is their risk rather than mine. Adoptive parents never lose the fees paid, as they are credited toward a successful placement. We were fully aware of the percentage of failed matches when we began our journey; we had two.

I have been shocked more than once upon meeting a stranger who inquires about the costs of adoption when they have just shared personal information about the costs of years of infertility treatments that were not covered by insurance.

[spaypets]

Well put, Red. I might add that those fertility clinics are usually for profit and the doctors more often than not ARE getting rich off the treatments, which result in a successful pregnancy only 20 percent of the time in some cases.

And if we're talking about cost-shifting, in states where insurance pays for fertility treatments, everyone else is paying for those treatments as a part of their premiums. One might argue that isn't fair.

[dogncatkids]

First I will admit I have glazed over the other posts to this thread but I ask that you keep in mind that for folks on the new end of the process having to come up with $12,000+ immediately is a little overwhelming.

As for the low cost of adopting a waiting child - I got burned by that one and am now looking at adopting internationally. But looking at the costs associated is daunting - I am fundraising. There is a lot of competition for grants and I think people are venting because of all the competition, lack of understanding by family and friend and possibly lack of support from those same individuals. I mailed out over 100 letters asking family and friends for contributions (tax deductible mind you) and what did I get - comments like my cause wasnt worthy, and people who wont talk to me now.

Adoption isnt inexpensive - just a little overwhelming costwise. Many people think if you are adopting an infant that costs associated with the birth are probably covered by health insurance. It takes those of us with strong voices and feelings to educated the general populace that 1. Adoption is expensive - UPFRONT 2. Generally adoption costs are not covered by health insurance 3. Adoption is necessary to bring families together.

Ok enough of my soapbox.

[spaypets]

Becca, I don't think anyone denies that adoption can be very expensive. And I sympathize with people who don't have the savings to cover it. Really, what my rant is about is when people say that it isn't WORTH the fees being charged to adopt a child, who imply or even say, that agencies are getting rich and that they are in some way hucksters. I just refuse to believe that is usually the case and a check of my agencies 990s proved that the best paid people weren't earning enough to be getting rich off my fees.

[dogncatkids]

And that is why folks with strong voices need to speak up and educate the general populace. For years that is all the media has (and still does - the lady in Seattle recently who was in it just for the money) portray agencies as in it for the money. It is only when you have been on this side of adoption AND done your research.

I am going to be working with my local media soon to try and educate some of the folks here in Idaho - some will believe it and some wont. What they dont realize is the same costs are spent by folks who have birth children - only it is spread out during the pregnancy and not all at one wack. Also if prospective parents had to have homestudies I believe there wouldnt be so many children in foster care.

Off the soapbox AGAIN.