[Missy M]

At the posters request and my own personal desire to see it happen I have moved this post in order to start a new thread and deal with the topic of hurt feelings in posts when terms that aren't considered pc are used...MissyM

HappyMomAnna
You are echoing what I have felt many times in these forums. I am an old-timer here...that really just lurks reading and educating myself for the most part.

I'd love to see us debate this topic some more...but I am unsure how to start a thread...and bring the topic from one place to another.

If you'd like, please move this to a new thread...and I'm sure most of us will follow.

Yasta: As a waiting adoptive mother, I understand and applaud your reasons for posting. Whether this thread has been hijacked or not: know that there are many of waiting parents out here that do understand these feelings and where they come from--EVEN if we don't agree totally. I know from experience that it is extremely hard to get opinions or suggestions from my normal support base because they haven't been through adoption--or at least adoption today. Keep coming here...because we need to have this base to support one another.

[Missy M]

In some very recent threads in this forum the issue of being "politicaly correct" in the terms we use in this forum has come up time and time again. Often during an intense and emotional discussion a poster will barge in not to discuss the original issue but to state that someone has offended or is being offended by a term or phrase that someone else has used. Thats all well and good, people have a right to vent and voice their opinions here, but I simply hate when it becomes a distraction in and of itself. When a certain "Revolutionary" member was here I can remember her working very hard to eradicate the derogatory term that is used to describe both the contents that are found in soiled diapers and a woman who has placed a child for adoption.
It worked....its rarely seen here in reference to women. I hope that we can open a line of communication where ADOPTIVE PARENTS AS WELL AS BIRTHPARENTS can express what they need to have us know. What offends you? What makes you uncomfortable? What would you like to see halted in this forum?
I thank you in advance for responding....I am off to deliver a baby that was not suppose to come until next week! MissyM

[PinkRibbon]

I find it VERY difficult to have to walk on egg shells, worrying that someone is going to let me know that I've innocently insulted them by using the wrong word to the wrong person at the wrong time. While I can't speak for everyone (obviously ) I don't know anyone who likes to be attacked for using a term that's outdated.
I think there is plenty of space for everyone of different opinions, where we can debate, agree, disagree and agree to disagree and still be respectful to each other. Can't we act like mature adults? Does that seem like too much to ask?

[KatieMill]

Thank you for starting this thread.

I too remember the "revolutionary" that helped eradicate the derogatory term--that I myself unwittingly used--for birthmothers. Actually, it took me forever to figure out what was derogatory because I never used that term in my everyday speech nor did anyone around me. I was just using it as computer lingo...until I figured out and understood that yes, it something more appropriate needed to be used.

I don't have a problem with someone nicely letting you know that something is seen as derogatory.

I do, however, have a problem with someone when they focus in on something and beat it to death...instead of looking at the issue being discussed.

One of my issues as a waiting adoptive parent is that many times we are chastised for the use of a word or combination of words (i.e. our birthmother) that may be offensive to some...but not to all. And most of the time (not all of the time, I'll grant you) the word(s) are being used in a respectful intent.

I will explain myself further below. Just wanted to make sure that I make a point of explaining that I have the utmost respect for all members of the triad...and do feel it is beneficial for people to clarify that certain terms are seen as not "politically correct" (for lack of more specific terms right now)

The example of "our birthmother": I understand that in fact it is the child's birthmother. However, not every birthmother has a problem with being referred to as "our birthmother." And by using that terminology...it does not mean that the user is being disrespectful.

I know of several birthmothers that refer to themselves as the family's birthmother...not just ***'s birthmother. This forum and other websites also point out that not all birthmother's are comfortable with the use of that term. Some prefer Firstmother, Lifemother, biological mother, etc.

So...should these Firstmothers make a point of joining a thread and correcting any member of the triad based on their feeling that birthmother isn't correct politically? Because technically, all mothers that give birth...are in fact, birthmothers. Some Firstmothers...feel that they should be known as a mother....nothing changes that they are that child's mother.

Again, I do not have an issue with someone saying..".For me...I don't like the use of such and such...because..." But to join a thread discussing a specific issue...and to repeatedly pick out that, for example, she isn't "our birthmother"...she's only the child's birthmother.....seems negative towards the adoptive parents in my view. And takes away from the pivotal issue being discussed. It gets lost in the fray as others suddenly paint the person using the term as "negative'

I do understand that this forum consists of all facets of the triad. But just as stereotypes have been attached to birthmothers.... there appear to be many here who want to attach stereotypes to all adoptive parents...that aren't consistent for all.

Having been here awhile, most of us know that the people that stay here are interested in learning and supporting others. And in how many situations people post one thing....and come to see a different point of view by others sharing.

In recent months, there have been at least 3 adoptive parents post that they were considering closing their adoptions or limiting contact from what was initially promised....and after posting their concerns and the issues at hand, reading from the input of others, contemplating the differing responses....they changed their minds and felt supported by the posters here. Where else could this happen?

Yes, at first it seems astonishing that people would say...yeah, I'm going back on my word. But as I said in the previous thread to Yasta: most adoptive parents do not have a strong support base within their present circle that has firsthand experience with open adoption...It is through places such as this that we learn, discuss, express frustration, express joy, and ultimately learn from one another.

Who would go on a birthmother thread and "flame" a poster for expressing concerns about the adoptive parent? Who would tell her blatantly disrespectful comments that her motives were nothing but selfish...?

It is sometimes expressed, and even more frequently implied in the tone and terminology, that adoptive parents are only out for a child...that we are willing to pay any price and say anything to get the baby...and that most...go back on their word.

I too am outraged....absolutely incensed...when I read the stories on these boards from women who gave unselfishly and with the promise that they could receive information and/or visits with their child...only to have it yanked away. It is through these posts and these forums that I have learned the absoltue importance of fulfilling the commitments...first and foremost for the child's sake. And second, to have a more successful adoption experience for all members of the triad.

Thus, I am aware that birthmothers are frequently lied to....and I must say, having participated in quite a lengthy adoption journey...adoptive parents are lied to alot in this process as well. Not just by birthparents but by agencies, lawyers, and facilitators as well.

I do know that alot of these issues boil down to unresolved issues for different members of the triad. But to some extent...I feel like it is an area where we do need to pursue some discussion... and continue to learn from one another.

[crick]

I remember a thread discussing what people call each other and what are the preferred terms etc. but here you are asking for a different thing so here goes....

Quote - "what offends you? What makes you uncomfortable? What would you like to see halted on this forum?"

- I'm offended that everything seems to offend people! Seriously, in this day and age of way too much PC, enough is enough! We all come from different backgrounds of race, economic, culture, religion, sexual preference etc. etc. etc. and it is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone. None of us are ever going to agree on the same terms, word usage etc. for everything so why not use what you yourself are comfortable with and if you don't like someone else's term because it isn't politically correct enough for you, then simply use your own term and move on! (Obviously I'm not advocating the usage of derogotory terms and if someone does use a term that is derogotory then it needs to be mentioned, and I applaud the change from ** to bmom etc. But in the scope of "natural, life, birth, 1st, 2nd, adoptive, real etc." none of them are 100% accurate but how any of this can seriously offend people is beyond me. I myself do not say "natural" because it then implies that I am an unnatural mother, but I'm not offended by it because I know what people mean and there is some accuracy to that word. It's just not a word that I personally would use. This goes for a lot of other non-adoption terms for that matter. (you say tomato, I say tomahto) You might disagree with it but when the thread is directed toward a completely different issue, why do people need to bash others for what they perceive as the wrong term? I say focus on the issue of the thread itself and quit getting into the sidetrack route of such trivial stuff as terms. And folks.......it is trivial when compared to the large scope of this forum and what we really come here for. If you want to argue terms then join a debate team or write a song and perform it at your local coffee house.


Alright...let me have it.

[riley6]

Missy asks: "What offends you? What makes you uncomfortable? What would you like to see halted in this forum?"

I guess what I'm uncomfortable with is when a board is set up as a support for one "member" of the triad, but when that triad member asks a question innocently, she/he is put down and told they're WRONG for feeling that way, by other members of the triad.

It bothers me, bc I would NEVER dream of going to an adult adoptee board or a birthparent board and tell them that they are WRONG about adoptive parents or that their feelings are WRONG when it comes to adoptive parents. I don't know if that happens on bp's or adoptee boards, but it happens here on adoptive parent boards.

It's hard for people not involved with the triad to understand what it's like to be in our shoes. We come to the boards bc we are looking for other opinions and advice from people who have been in our shoes. Even criticism from other adoptive parents seems ok, bc they are in our shoes, but the same criticism from other members of the triad doesn't seem appropriate (bc they aren't in our shoes). <I say as I duck>

One example, I hate the phrase "gave my child up for adoption". I see that all over the bparent boards. When I see a post from a bmom who is agonizing over "giving her child up for adoption", it would be very WRONG of me to go on and on about the PC wording of placing her child for adoption. Another bmom may say the same thing that I'm thinking, but it's ok for her to, bc she's another bmom. If I said it it would not be ok.

If an adoptee is discussing on the adoptee board the fact that her amom was never able to love her the way she loved her bio kids, it would be WRONG of me to go on and say that adoptive parents can and do love their akids as much as their biokids. But another adoptee could say that her amom loved her as much as her biokids and the two mothers can have the same kind of love.

These are just MY feelings. We were under the microscope with DCFS to foster our kids and again to adopt them. I hate feeling judged by people who don't understand what it's like to be in my position. If you are in my shoes, educate me. Help me with issues that come up in my life. Share similar experiences that you have had so I can see what alternatives might be for me. Criticize me and tell me I'm wrong if you've had similar experiences. I'm up for it, but if you have never gone through what I've gone through, how can you understand fully?

I happen to love this forum more than any other one around and I don't want to leave, so please be gentle! The question was asked and I'm trying to be honest.

[Shoshana]

good points, Katie.

even tho' i'd not choose to correct someone's use of the term 'our birthmother' , i have to say that the adoptee in me REALLY dislikes that phrase. i can't even imagine my mother using 'our birthmother' to refer to my birthmother. i won't bore you with the reasons why i find it problematic.

unless we talk about what bothers us, what we find problematic, how would others know? the initials (bee emm) controversy got quite heated. we were accused of being politically correct - in an attempt to minimize and derogate our concerns. we were accused of being overly sensitive, censors, etc. etc. so many of us - from all sides of the triad agreed that it was offensive.

any time there is a movement in a community to change language, there is resistance. i guess i see these forums as a microcosm of our larger communities. maybe even more progressive in some ways.

[KatieMill]

Riley--

I hear where you're coming from. So many times thoughts such as yours are turned into..."Oh you don't think we should post on "your' board...." by others...and before that starts....

IMO I don't think that's what you meant...or even what I think either. But I do think that people should take care to see what board they are on....offering opinions or experiences is one thing...

But the YOu're wrong stuff does get old. For the most part it is really an agonizing and long journey to be an adoptive parent...if for no other reason than the scrutiny and the money required. And to be demeaned by people thinking that we all intentionally hurt the other two members of the triad...just isn't right.

Just wanted to add my two cents on this one before I go to bed for the night.

[riley6]

Thanks for understanding. I don't want it to be a "yours" and "ours" type thing. I DO appreciate opinions from other members of the triad, it's the criticism from other members on a support board that I'm uncomfortable with. I don't have that discomfort with another adoptive parent.

And I forgot to mention about PC wording. I don't mind the word "adopter". I used that word before I found internet boards. It never occured to me that some ap's would associate it with "abductor". I also don't mind the abbreviations PAP. I still use it, bc I know that no one on these boards associate it with a pap smear.

I don't like the words "our bmom", unless it's coming from two adopted siblings. I understand where you're coming from Anna, but to my kids I use the term biological mom. She raised them for a portion of their lives, she didn't relinquish them at birth. Not to criticize you, just sharing my choice of words. I hate the word "real mom" and "natural mom". I'm not fake and mothering comes VERY natural to me, but didn't to my a-kids' bmoms.

When I first came to msg boards I had no idea that "bee and em" were not PC. I was educated, not yelled at, by bmoms. I appreciate being informed that that was offensive and I changed. I also called my oldest kids my bkids, bc I gave birth to them. I was told that I didn't relinquish and that's what b-c refers to, so I now call them my biological children. BTW, I ONLY use these terms on these boards or when I'm in an adoptive parent meeting, bc I normally don't differentiate HOW my kids joined my family.

I'm sure I'll think of more things tonight. Good night all.

[seacritter2]

Whew... I wish I could put my thoughts together as well as some of you wonderful ladies do, but I'm not that great, so here goes anyway......

This website has been a godsend for me, on many different levels. When I first stumbled upon this site, I only wanted to search the database, and then within what seemed like minutes, I became addicted. Addicted to finally after all these years, 'hearing' how adoptee's feel about being adopted. Addicted to reading wonderful posts from amoms and praying again and again that my son has a wonderful mom with an open mind like so many of the amoms on here. Addicted to thinking maybe, just maybe I'm not someone who was swept under the carpet 26 years ago, that maybe, just maybe, I'm valued by my son and his parents.

All this controversy over the use of words saddens me. It would seem to me, that the majority of posts on here are motivated by one reason and one reason only, Love. We love our children we placed (Thanks Riley!), our children are loved by their parents, and our children want to know us or try to understand us, and we're all just trying to find the best way. Speaking for MYSELF ONLY, I wonder if on some level if the birth mothers resent all adoptive moms because they are doing what we could not, raising our children. And I wonder if on some level adoptive moms resent birthmoms because we did what they could not, give birth, and that's where the anger comes from.

I hope this makes sense and doesn't offend anyone, like I said, I'm not that great at expressing myself, but that silly little phrase "can't we all just get along" is stuck in my mind right now.

[StevieM]

"What offends you? What makes you uncomfortable? What would you like to see halted in this forum?"

I am offended by stereotypical views blanketing any of the three triad sides. There are both positive and negative experiences, no matter which side we may hail from. Not all birthmothers are crackheads and coke addicts, not all adoptive families are baby-snatchers and liars, and not all adoptees are mentally unstable from being raised outside of the bio family.

I am uncomfortable when I see posts that adoptive parents are using coercion and dishonesty to get a child relinquished to them, or want to close the adoption because of their own insecurities (take Susan Burns, for example). I am uncomfortable with adoptees who blame all of their issues on the fact that birth mom "threw them away." I am uncomfortable with birth moms who feel the adult adoptee "owes" them a relationship.

I would like to see some of the censorship and (IMO) frivolous bannings curbed. We are all adults, we all have hot-buttons, and we should be allowed the freedom to voice opposing opinions without the fear of being banned. This is real life.

Stevie

[riley6]

I told you all I'd think of something else before I went to bed.

I feel the same way about people who don't have a child with attachment disorder and they go on an attachment disorder board and bash a mother for doing something that they don't agree with. NO ONE who hasn't parented a child with RAD could possibly know what it's like! To call them insensitive and uneducated, or whatever the names were, is WRONG.

Now, if another parent of a child with RAD went on the same board and told me I was wrong for doing something with my child, then I'd listen and not feel offended or criticised so harshly. KWIM? It's bc they've walked a mile in my shoes.

Ok, now I AM going to bed!

[Scarlet Moon 13]

I know of several birthmothers that refer to themselves as the family's birthmother...not just ***'s birthmother. This forum and other websites also point out that not all birthmother's are comfortable with the use of that term. Some prefer Firstmother, Lifemother, biological mother, etc.

. [/b][/quote]

Them mothers, these mothers, those mothers, we mothers,
birthmom, biomom, firstmom, naturalmom, adoptivemom, fostermom, realmom, mother goose, mother teresa, god mother, step mother, old mother, young mother, den mother, house mother, mothership, mother love, earth mother, mother earth, moon mother, you mutha, you're mother, i am a mother, be a mother too, all mothers are real mothers..... OH super mother she can do it all...

ooooooooohhhh I have to add "life mother" to my mother list..


I never heard that one... thank you.. if I missed any mothers would everyone let me know?

[yasta]

Wow, so that's how it feels to be thread hijacked

If I didn't have such thick skin, or a someone who was new to adoption I would be seriously offended, but I'm not.

Now my two cents. I dislike when people say "it's her baby and not yours", she is the mother not you. As an adoptive mother who has never given birth that is like "ouch" and very hurtful.

Believe me adoptive mothers know everyday we did not give birth and we will never be the first mother to our child that came into our family via adoption. So please do not poor salt into our wounds.

Then what about the birthmother ( sorry, unless the birthmother wants to be called differently , I am sticking with that or biological mother), I'm just not good at politically correct names and phrases.

The birthmother is going through a difficult time in her life and she should be treated with the utmost respect and given the time to make the best decision for her baby.

Everyone ( including myself) should be more sensitive to what the other memebr of the triad is experiencing and going through. It is difficult and painful for all the members of the traid, so let's treat one another how we want to be treated and most of all not to take advantage of the situation or the person.



Yasta

Mom to 2 boys by adoption
matched w/ #3, due August 8th

[StevieM]

Yasta ~ Please accept my humble apology for my harshness in the other thread. With your last two posts, I can see that you are not he person I had initially pegged you to be. That first post just came off wrong (at least to me) and it hit a little close to home.

I guess this is the purpose of the forum ~ to give us all a glimpse into the mind of the "other side." Your clarification of what you were saying has done just that. Thank you.

This is a perfect example of being able to work through our own issues, without the input of moderator censorship, as mature adults. (No offense toward the individual moderators at all, simply the policy itself).

Thanks, Missy, for stepping in and turning things around for me. I have a much different view, now.

Once again, I hope you will accept my apology and best wishes, Yasta.

Stevie