[kburch]

Originally posted by Xmansmom
Every adopted child starts with loving and selfless birthparents who chose to give them life and live everyday with the pain it took to give them the best one possible.

Sorry I started a new thread with this, but I didn't want to ruin the positive atmosphere of the thread "Can we all just take a minute to be thankful..." I hope no one else does, either.

Still, as much as I want to agree with the statement that Xmansmom made, I can't. As someone who is planning to adopt an older child(ren) from foster care, I'm learning more and more about some of the terrible things that some adopted children have gone through at the hands of their "loving and selfless birthparents."

Please don't get me wrong. It seems that most of the adoptive and birth parents on this forum deal with infant adoptions more than foster care ones, so I know that most of the children truly are placed into the hands of their adoptive parents by very loving and selfless birthparents. I can't imagine having to make that kind of sacrifice!

Still, I think my views are a little tainted by the horror stories that I hear about the things that my future child(ren) may have gone through. I have been accused in the past of not having enough respect for birthparents, and I truly apologize for that. But please remember that some of us are trying to come to grips with how we will tell our future children that their parents were far from "loving and selfless." I hope no one is offended by this - I just thought it was worth bringing up...

[HappyMomAnna]

kburch--I understand what you are saying and there are actually several of us here that do have children from Foster Care who have faced a horrible start in life.......

......and yes there are the days where it is difficult to respect or feel anything except the deepest level of anger toward a birthmother who would Drug and expose her unborn baby to anything or everything.....there are those days when it is difficult to understand how a MOTHER would allow her beautiful baby to be sexually abused---or to sleep in a shopping cart on the streets....

You are right these birthmothers do not make a choice out of love or care for the child that is adopted..... many of them fight as if these babies are assets or property....many don't fight at all....

It is difficult sometimes to think of what words I will tell my children about their birthmother....my oldest remembers her and loves her with all of her heart......it is difficult to imagine the details my children will eventually discover or assume....or believe...

We do have a different situation then the a-parent who adopts an infant where a birthmother has made a loving decision....We do indeed.....

But what we DO need to remember is that no matter how horrible a child's birhtmother is--if they can remember--they still will have loving feelings in most cases....even if we feel nothing less then contempt....

We can be Thankful that the mothers gave our children LIFE.

I tell my daughter that I know her birthmother loved her very--very much because she has enough love to love me and her birthmother....I teach my daughter that her birthmother did not do these things to hurt her--she did them because she was sick and didn't know how to do the job of mommy.

I never tell my children that their birthmother did not love them--I simply teach my children that love is NOT enough.

[dl]

kburch: It would be nice to agree with the statement but it is a one dimensional view of what some WANT to believe. Blanket statements that use "Every" or "All" are inaccurate. The statement may have been easier to agree with if instead of the word "Every", the word "Some" or even "Many" had been used, IMO.

HappyMomAnna: "I never tell my children that their birthmother did not love them--I simply teach my children that love is NOT enough."

Beautiful way to approach a difficult situation.

[maejo]

kburch I just felt compelled to reply to you. First I'd like to ask you were you there at th time the birth mother was giving birth? Did you see in to her mind. Could you feel what she felt in her heart? No I don't think so. I really do believe that every mother who has been given the most wonderful gift from God the ability to conceive and give birth did love their child at that moment. It's what happens after that, for whatever reason they have lost their way. For whatever reason they are not able to protect and guide their children and love them more than life itself. It is so sad for them too. And I am saying this and I am a person who went through so much to conceive and give birth only to realize that could not happen for me. I am also a person who has cared for 24 foster children, babies and older kids. We have also adopted three, in process of fourth adoption of older child and are fostering two more now. And I could share war stories about my 6yr. old twin girls whom we have adopted (Oct. 2003) that could only bring a look of shock on your face. And I do still feel that birth mother loved her children when she first gave birth to them. There are many of us who love someone at first but get lost along the way. So why not the birth mother? Waiting for your answer, do you have one I don't think so. You seem to have a heavy heart. I wonder why.

[Linny]

Not every child who is conceived is a 'wanted' child by his/her birthmother/birthfather. If this were so, there would be no drug exposed children. There would not be children who's birthmothers tried to abort them by taking certain drugs, or trying various methods to induce early labor. There would not be a pregnant woman, who, in the delivery room stated to me, "I carried the da** thing for nine months, I think I deserve a steak dinner!"
We have adopted seven children.......older and infants. Only a few of my children have birthparents who made a loving and selfless choice; and yes, I too could give horror stories about abused children that might make one's hair stand on end.
I think the point the original poster was making, is not to paint every picture with the same brush. Each adoption is unique. It's when the media, journalists, caseworkers, etc., start making blanket assumptions about birthpersons---or adoptive couples, simply because they were able to make a baby or adopt one.
Being able to conceive no more makes a woman or man a good and loving parent, any more than being able to adopt a child makes the woman or man a good and loving parent.

Just my two-cents.....

Linny

[amom4life]

Well said Linny and Anna!
Judy

[dl]

"I'd like to ask you were you there at the time the birth mother was giving birth? Did you see in to her mind. Could you feel what she felt in her heart?"

Please tell us what you would say to the birth mother as she was giving birth to an alcohol or drug affected baby. A baby affected in this way because the bmother "indulged" while pregant. What would you see in her mind or feel in her heart as she gave birth to a child that she had exposed to these horrors? Would it be the unconditional love of a mother?

I find it hard to really" believe that every mother who has been given the most wonderful gift from God, the ability to conceive and give birth did love their child at that moment." When a woman chooses to expose the unborn child to drugs and/or alcohol, that is not love for the most wonderful gift from God. Many choose to abort the child that God gave them the ability to conceive. How could that be called "love"?

[Xmansmom]

I just wanted to apologize if I insulted anyone with my thread. I wasn't trying to make every adoption situation fit into a nice neat little package, life itself isn't like that. I can only imagine the horror stories of what some of you have dealt with or lived through first hand. I was only trying to bring a little positiveness to the forum, it just seemed like it needed it. I just thought for one moment it might be nice to celebrate all of the wonderful adoptions that have come to be. The media especially tends to have a slightly negative outlook on adoption, due in part to some of the horrible situations that we or others have dealt with. I just thought maybe if we, the adoption community, focused on the positive, others would too and maybe some of the horrible situations will never come to be. A little idealistic I realize, but if you don't have faith, what do you have. Thank God there are loving, kind, generous people that are there for the children of these nightmare situations. Thank you all too for giving of yourself tohelp these children heal...

[kburch]

Hey, everyone! (especially Xmansmom )

I'm sorry if anyone has taken this thread the wrong way... I was not offended by any means by Xmansmom's thread and appreciate the positive message that she was trying to get across - which was why I left that thread alone and started this one in the first place. I was hoping that people would run with that other thread and tell us more of their positive stories, so those of us whose stories might not be quite so ideal would have something positive to read and take heart from.

I guess that the one statement just caught me off guard a little bit. I feel like I often get caught up in reading the "birth parent / adoptive parent wars" that get going on some of these threads, and get so frustrated (1) because I'm so new to this, I'm not really a "triad member" yet, so I really don't understand anyone's view firsthand and (2) because I am having a really hard time coming to grips with what some (not many, but some) birthparents do to their children. I really appreciated HappyMomAnna's post and hope I can take her amazing attitude toward her childrens' birthparents to heart. I know God will give me the strength to forgive and even love those people, but I am already so angry at them sometimes!

I'm sorry if I ruined such a positive thread by posting my own insecurities. Please keep telling us those positive stories (especially about foster care adoption, if there are any...). It seems that I, for one, really need them.

[HappyMomAnna]

kburch--you are dealing with one of the big things that we who do adopt children who have been so hurt need to deal with. It is good that you are thinking about some of these things in advance it will make you a better mom.... When we deal with some of the issues a birthmother has directly caused in the lives of these children it can be so difficult to understand and face! There are days that I am so filled up with anger at the birthmother for my children I can hardly see straight!

When I take my beautiful little 25 month old son in for early intervention and discover he is only developmentally 16 months old I want to find that woman and beat her up! Sometimes I just have so much resentment for the damage she has done by her careless acts and when I have a 6-year old who only knows how to tantrum in order to feel my love it makes me angry to the core--or when my beautiful little girl says, "mommy why are we going to ride on the city bus--it's not raining" my heart just breaks knowing that to my baby riding the bus is something you do when it rains!

dlois--The only thing that gets me past my feelings of Anger is: Love the sinner--hate the sin. All that I can do now is pray that when and if my children do try to reunite with their birthmother they will find a woman who has changed her life and who can tell them how sorry she is.....to me that is the only thing I can hope for. It is difficult for me to have compassion for her!
But I also think of my own foolish 16 year old mother who only ate blongna and milky way bars, wahsed down with Pepsi and a smoke while pregnant with me! Leaving me with low birth weight and rotton teeth and a hard start in life---did she love her unborn baby?
I think she did in her foolish way--she tells me that she didn't even understand she was really going to be a mommy--that when I was born she felt like she had been given the most life like baby doll--that nothing was real to her when she became a teenage mother......she regrets not knowing better.....and she thanks God that abortion was not an option when I was conceived because she is not sure she would not have chosen abortion because of her lack of understanding.....all I have to say is rotten teeth or not I am glad and Thankful I was born!


Xmansmom--there is absolutely nothing WRONG with adoptive parents expressing thankfulness! And there was nothing wrong with your thread! There is simply so many ways to accomplish adoption that sometimes we all believe that everyone is in the same situation.....In so many ways we are.....but, as kburch--points out those of us who do adopt from Foster Care do face a few issues that other forms of adoption do not.....

We have some differences that make it difficult for us sometimes. We likely do not have open contact with the birthmother--we know our children were not given up freely from the love of a mother who was doing the best thing for her baby and with these differences we do expereince some issues that can be very difficult to talk about..... We often do not discuss these things with our support group that is directly involved as--we do not want our children to be seen or treated differently due to the start they had in life....and so we find it hard to find a safe place to process the feelings we sometimes have....

I do not think that the majority of birthmothers who give birth to drug exposed babies do so on purpose! I have met mothers who were able to take hold of their lives during their pregnancy and do the right things for their babies---but, I have also know of some remarkable people who faced drug addiction and lost the war! I do not believe that any of these mothers set out with the intention of harming their babies--I also do not believe that Love is EVER enough to fix all the problems in the world!

I was a battered wife for 15 years and believed that LOVE would fix everything....I learned the hard way that LOVE alone will never cure the ills of this world...I know my first husband loved me very much and I now that he still does--and I actually love him very much--but our Love was simply never going to be enough to fix the violence we saw develope and grow in our lives.... no matter how much we loved the children that were born into our marriage--we hurt them by our efforts to continue to love each other---in many ways I do feel very sorry for the birthmothers who cannot do anymore then Love--I do not doubt that at the time of birth the mother felt love---but, it was her sickness and lack of ability to make the right choices that have led to loss of her children....for that I am very sad.

There are days when I have so much anger I could track her down and kick her like a dog--there are other days when I cry just because I simply cannot imagine how horrible it would be to lose my beautiful children and I cannot imagine how I would ever get out of the life that caused this deep of a loss....

So---please anyone who has not faced loving the babies of a sick and dangerious mother understand that the aparent has a huge amount of emotional issues we face with these beautiful babies some of which will remember thier life before we get that chance to love them.....

[lisa in venice]

kburch,
my oldest child's birth parent drank and took cocaine nearly up to the day Nathan was born. They sought no prenatal care and it was only when they approached an adoption agency 6 months into the pg that they finally saw a Dr. They went from the SW's office right to a clinic and from the clinic straight to the hospital where Nathan was delivered in an emegency C-section. He probably would not have made it thru the day if they had not decided to see the SW that day and she hadn't insisted that they go to the clinic to get checked out.

Nathan was born not breathing, two pounds and cocaine impacted. He has struggled for the past 15 years to over come the physical issues he was born with but I thank his birth parents every day. They made some SERIOUSLY bad choices that he has had to pay for but they gave him his gorgeous black curls, his quick wit and sharp mind. They gave him his wirey agile body golden eyes and sweet nature. I believe that the basics of who is is came from them and I adore every bit of that.

It is much easier to see birth parents in a better light when you see them thru the filter of your child. I wonder what happened to them to put such good people on such a lousey path. They had to have been a lot like my sweet boy once, what broke in them to make those terrible decisions? I don't find it hard to talk to my ds about them when I frame it that way.

lisa

[maejo]

It really amazes me to hear people say that women who are on drugs and give birth to babies addicted did it to ruin the child's life. Does anyone realize that drug addiction is an illness. Do you really think birth mothers who could have come off drugs before getting pregnant would have? remember they were little girls once. Do you think they said I want for my life to get hooked on drugs and give birth to an addicted baby. How many women years after giving birth to a drug addicted baby may get help for their addiction and then feel sad as to what they have done? I'm sure many. Please don't get me wrong it is terrible but I just don't think women who are on drugs really understand and can stop what their doing in order to give baby a safe haven to develop before birth. I'd like to hear a story of a drug addicted person who really understands much of anything let alone one who is pregnant. You tell me about one and I'd be more than happy to apologize. Drugs affect(infect) people, they aren't cruel and mean just because that's who they are. Drugs are the enemy. Not the people..............Just my view...................
Judge not that ye not be judged...................................

[RiverGal]

Originally posted by maejo
Do you really think birth mothers who could have come off drugs before getting pregnant would have?
Well, my answer to that is an unequivocal NO...I don't. If it is important enough to them, then they CAN do it. As a matter of fact, in most larger cities the government will even PAY for rehab.


How many women years after giving birth to a drug addicted baby may get help for their addiction and then feel sad as to what they have done?

Ah! So later down the road she is all of a sudden ABLE to get clean. Isn't this a contradiction?

Maybe you need to spend a little more time reading some of the horrors that some of my forum sisters (and brothers) are facing in trying to help the young "victims" of selfish, egocentric, uncaring birth mothers who put their own comfort before that of the fetus inside of them. There is no excusing them...addictions or not.

Maybe after you have been on the forum long enough to read about some of the medical issues surrounding drug/alcohol exposed babies, your opinion might be a little different.

Debra

[dl]

"It really amazes me to hear people say that women who are on drugs and give birth to babies addicted did it to ruin the child's life."

I don't see anyone on this thread that said any woman chose to "ruin a child's life". I personally can't imagine any woman choosing to do that. I see people on this thread offering a different opinion than your statement:

"I really do believe that every mother who has been given the most wonderful gift from God the ability to conceive and give birth did love their child at that moment. "

As I said in my first post on this thread "Blanket statements that use "Every" or "All" are inaccurate. The statement may have been easier to agree with if instead of the word "Every", the word "Some" or even "Many" had been used, IMO."

Perhaps an expectant woman is suffering an illness and unable to stop drinking or taking drugs. Perhaps an expectant woman that chooses abortion does so out of "love for their child". Perhaps though the woman simply put her own needs and priorities first and her decisions are not based on "love for her child". Perhaps she's not thinking of her child at all ~ let alone with "love".

I personally agree with the Biblical teaching of "Judge not lest ye be judged" and I don't see anyone "judging" others on this thread. I simply see people reacting to the harsh realities of life and the tragedies that they have witnessed helpless babies/children suffering vs. viewing things through rose colored glasses and making excuses for the person that could have prevented the horror in the first place if only they had appreciated the "wonderful gift from God the ability to conceive and give birth did love their child at that moment."

[amom4life]

Originally posted by MissngLinkInFL
Ah! So later down the road she is all of a sudden ABLE to get clean. Isn't this a contradiction?

(and brothers) are facing in trying to help the young "victims" of selfish, egocentric, uncaring birth mothers who put their own comfort before that of the fetus inside of them. There is no excusing them...addictions or not.

Debra

I completely agree!

Drug and alcholism are not illnesses they are addictions. Addictions are not illnesses. There is a HUGE difference between an illiness and an addiction. People who are addicted at some point made the decision to get where they are because they get something (in their mind anyway) positive form the addiction or they wouldn't keep doing it.

I've never heard of being addicted to cancer, heart diasese, diabetes, etc.. because these are not addictions they ARE illnesses. Something we didn't choose and want to get rid of before it kills us. Addiction is self inflicted.

For an addict to use the excuse that they can't get their life together because they have an illness is a cop out. They are addicted because hey chose to be it's not something that happened to them like cancer etc...that they have no control over.

As we've seen time and time again if a person really wants to stop doing something they usually can and will find the means to that end. Most addicts don't want to stop because they like what their doing above all else in life including their unborn child.

And what of the mothers who don't stop at doing this to one baby but continue to get pregnant multiple times knowing full well what they are going to continue to do. That is not caring or love. There IS no excuse!!
Judy