[spaypets]

Then I absolutely agree!

[melon161]

I don't think I decide which will come first, the emotion or the action. I try treat all people how I would want to be treated and that is with love and respect. To me the emotion brings out the actions.

Stacy

[Lorraine123]

I was young when my first son was born and inexperienced with childcare and therefore very insecure. I expected to feel this incredible rush of love when he was first born, but I didn't. Instead I just felt incredible responsibility. I spoke to his pediatrician about this during one of his checkups and the pediatrician said "Love or responsibility - it doesn't matter. The actions are the same." He assured me that love would come if I acted on the responsibility, and he was right.

[kay72]

Happymomanna,
Your beautiful post made my day. The one about Brad/Bill made me laugh out loud! But it's so true--love is patient, kind, suffers long, isn't proud, isn't egotistical, isn't easily exasperated. We know the drill. ICorinthians 13 doesn't say a thing about how we feel, does it? If it were dependant on feelings, I couldn't face some days. I once heard a marriage counselor say that even if you don't feel love for your husband, ACT as though you are madly in love. You may be surprised how soon the feelings will come. Anyway, I just loved this thread and wanted you to know I always appreciate your contributions. Thanks spaypets for making us think!
Kay
<><

[Sharon]

I agree that there can be love without "liking"; there can be liking without love. But when an adult in a parenting role feels no love AND no liking, and can't even determine why, is it better for a toddler to remain in the care of that person, or could a more ideal situation be found? I would not place my child with a babysitter who admitted she didn't "like" him. I wouldn't allow someone to feed my cats if they didn't "like" them. I try my d*mnedest to make sure that no one who genuinely dislikes my son is ever in a position of authority over him... which can be tough at times, because he's not the most likable kid in the world; he's smart and sarcastic, which rubs many adults (especially teachers) the wrong way. Nevertheless, I did have him transferred to a different class several years ago when I felt that he and his teacher had a genuine and irreconcilable personality conflict. It may have been as much his fault as hers; it doesn't matter. he's the child, she's the adult. She has power, authority, credibility, and the system on her side. My son has... me.
I am there to advocate for him, unconditionally. That's my job. But what about these foster children who do not have moms and dads who care to or who are in a position to advocate for them? Do they deserve LESS because they are foster children??
Moms, think about it, please. If you and your husband died tomorrow, would you prefer that your children be raised by someone who loves (or at least LIKES) them, or would you just as soon they be raised by someone who admittedly DOESN'T like them, but is attempting to fake it in hopes that feelings of affection may someday develop? I'm not saying it's not NORMAL or okay not to like kids... however, there are plenty of people who DO like them, and they are the ones who should be entrusted with their care. It's hard for me to believe that a person could detach from their feelings to such a degree that they would be capable of effectively advocating and acting in the best interest of someone they do not like, or of convincingly "faking it" for any extended period of time. Children deserve love. it is their birthright. They don't deserve love from EVERYONE, nor is that possible. They deserve love from SOMEONE, either their parents or someone else who is willing to step in and fill that role. When you keep a child you are not capable of caring about, you are preventing that child from having what he/ she deserves and needs most; a family.
JMO ~ Shar

[sspete]

I agree Sharon!!! I did not want to post on the topic of foster parents not loving foster children, but it is getting rather difficult to hold my tongue!!!

These Children Deserve Unconditional Love And Acceptance!!!! Is it easy to love them all the time....NO, but you can't just bring them in to your home and decide I can't do this....I Don't Love You!!!! To be an effective foster parent takes a SPECIAL person!!! You must know that each child that comes into your home has been through literal "h*ll"!!!! Know that you are there for them to help them through what they have been through......Fostering is not for the Pleasure of the "foster parent"!!!!! You truly must have a love in your heart for the children in need.....If you are doing it for your pleasure.....then find something else to do!!!! Fostering is NOT for You......There are WAY to many childeren sent from place to place because the foster parents could not handle the child.........PLEASE DON"T SIGN UP UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED FOR THE WORST CASE SCENERIO!!!!! These Children Deserve To Have Someone Believe In Them!!!!!

Staci

[Shoshana]

that really exemplifies what everyone is saying re the relationship between love as an emotion and love as a behavior...

One well-accepted theory in psychology (specifically from the Behavioral school) describes the cognitive-affective-behavioral triangle. cognitions=thoughts, affect=emotions.

There is a reciprocal and causal relationship between the three components of the triangle. So thoughts can cause/influence behaviors and behaviors can cause/influence emotions, etc.

The interesting point about this theory (in accordance with a Behavioral approach) is that if an intervention needs to be made to change a component of the triangle, then it is easiest to change the behavior. It's very difficult to change an emotion out of sheer will, or through thinking. It's very difficult to change a thought just by wishing it to change. So if you want to change or influence an emotion or a thought, it's most effective to intervene at the level of the behavior.

The problem is that many people aren't willing to invest the effort to change the behavior. Behavior change is far from effortless. It takes consistent and persistent awareness (thought) to change a behavior.

(Cognitive psychologists DO place emphasis on change thoughts directly - but in my opinion, this is even more difficult).

[Sharon]

One other point; I have recently read of situations where there are other children (either adopted, foster, or bio) in the home. The foster parents claim to love all the children... with one exception. There is one specific child they do not like.
How can a situation like this be okay for a child? Of course I recognize the necessity of a foster care system, but I almost think in a situation like this the child would be better off in a group shelter, orphanage, or institution of some sort, rather than in a home where all the other children are loved and he is not. I can't imagine the damage this would do to a child's self-esteem, to his very psyche. Better he or she be in a group care situation than THIS... at least then equal treatment would extend to all, all the children would be dealt with by trained workers, and all would be equally "unloved".
What must it feel like to a two-year-old to be the ONLY one the fparents do not love?
Shoshana, I agree that behavior is easier to change than cognition or affect; however, wouldn't the easiest thing TRULY be to remove the cause of the entire conflict? Bottom line (for me): An unloved child belongs in a different home.
I don't understand why people have a DESIRE to foster or adopt a child they don't like/ love? What is the motivation? I have trouble believing it is an entirely altruistic act. After all, if the child is not in that particular home, he'll be in a different one. Children in America are not going to go unfed or unclothed. A foster child in America will have a roof over his head, regardless of whether or not you personally provide it. To me, it seems that the sole reason we HAVE a foster care system here as opposed to an institutional/ orphanage system is so that children can receive love in a family setting, not just the basic necessities of food, clothing and shelter (which an orphanage could provide just as well, and probably at far less expense to taxpayers). If a child in a foster home is not receiving love, that defeats the whole purpose. I see potential aparents posting all over this forum, desperately seeking to adopt and/ or foster children ... older children, sibling groups, minorities, special needs, it doesn't matter. They are waiting for a match... waiting and waiting. Meanwhile, the children they long for so desperately are withering away emotionally in foster homes where no one feels any particular attachment for them. This is wrong!
Last night, I couldn't stop thinking about that "unliked" two-year-old boy who was posted about on the other thread. Last night, he went to bed without a genuine goodnight kiss, without being held, read to, bathed and tucked in by someone who loves him. Tonight will be the same, not just for him, but apparently for many.
~ Shar

[Shoshana]

Sharon wrote: " Shoshana, I agree that behavior is easier to change than cognition or affect; however, wouldn't the easiest thing TRULY be to remove the cause of the entire conflict? Bottom line (for me): An unloved child belongs in a different home. "

As a last resort, yes. But if there is a lack of safe foster homes,and if the parent WANTS to love the child, then the parent has a chance of being able to love the child. So I'd advocate a concerted and sincere effort on the part of the parent to change the behavior so that the change in affect and cognition will follow. Will it work? Only if the parent --wants-- it to work and is willing to put forth a lot of effort. I think it's easier for some people to say, "well, this is the way I --feel-- and I can't change it."

(I'm sorry if this isn't making sense, I have a splitting headache & wish somebody was here to take care of ME!)

Seriously tho', I don't think it's a red flag if a new parent doesn't 'love' a child immediately. I believe love grows. I believe, even a sincere desire to love will allow it to happen. I do think it is a BIG problem, for the mental health and security of the child, if he/she is being raised in a home where he/she isn't even LIKED! Not liking a child implies a great deal less investment than even neutrality. That, imo, is a travesty. If you think about it, if you like a person, it's easier to 'pretend' love. If you don't even like the person, 'pretending' love would have to be nearly impossible.

[Dianna]

I wonder how many people here are current foster parents? Some of the opinions I have read here aren't what I have heard or experienced. I am currently licensed as a foster parent as we just finalized our last adoption. We have decided to keep the license and be a resource for foster children. We currently do not have a placement.

[HappyMomAnna]

We are currently a licensed Foster Home however, the children I have cared for have been family and friends children placed in the system and now our children we are waiting to finalize adoption of...... At this point we do not plan to take in other children. (Except possibly my borthers 3-when he finally does get evicted)

[Sharon]

I am not a licensed foster care provider; I am the biological mother of two children, one of whom was placed for adoption at birth.
I am also a licensed child care provider. In the state of Texas, child care providers are required to take a number of child development training classes each year in order to maintain their certification to work the field of child care. The courses I take are the same ones that foster parents take; in fact the classes are advertised as being for "foster parents and child care providers", and many of the people who I attend these classes with are foster parents. The topics generally have to do with positive discipline, building self-esteem in children, and things like that.
I do not have first hand experience with foster parenting, but I am a parent, have gone through at least some of the same training that foster parents go through, and feel that I am entitled to express my opinion on this issue.
~ Sharon

[Shoshana]

not a parent (yet :-)

ph.d. in clinical psychology, clinical psychologist, and extensive experience working with adults who were abused as children, as well as personal experience with abused children and adolescents.

what parts of this discussion are not reflecting your experience, Dianna?

[Dianna]

Hi, I wrote a huge response to this that took so long my computer disconnected and I lost the whole thing. So I will summarize.

1) I do not believe there is an abundance of foster homes. I have heard that there is a shortage of foster homes.

2) It is not that easy to just move a child from foster home to foster home given the limited amount. Sometimes kids have to wait for a bed to open up. Some foster kids end up homeless and living on the street. Some run away from bio homes to the street.

3) The foster certification mostly consists of safety issues. Home inspection, health check, driving record, criminal records. They don't ask the invasive questions that adopters often answer.

4) Most foster parents love kids. They offer space, acceptance, safety and stability. I don't know why they don't adopt but they do get kids ready for their adoptive placement.

5) In my 3 placements from the foster care system, the foster home did not deal with the kid's issues as up close and personal as I did as an adoptive parent. There is more distance there.

6) I believe that it is unrealistic to expect any human, including a foster parent, to be able to take into their home, a complete stranger sight unseen and be able to unconditionally love each and every one of them equally. To accept and correctly deal with sometimes very difficult behavior 24/7 and not let it affect how they feel. And to immediately move them if they are getting less than ideal treatment.

7) I think it is counterproductive to say that if someone is not in that league, then they have no business being a foster parent. We need more foster parents with safe homes. Regular people can do this. We need more regular people willing to try.

8) Most people I have seen on these forums are waiting for a match with a birthmother or an infant from overseas.

9) Most kids in foster care are loved and do very well with stability and safety as it is so much better than where they came from.

[spaypets]

Sharon, I'm glad you jumped in--it was getting boring with everyone agreeing with me...


Here's my question, and Dianna, maybe you can answer it. Isn't it better for a foster child to experience a warm, safe, affectionate home than to be shuttled to yet another home because the fparent doesn't feel an emotion? I am assuming that the fparent is acting in a loving way -- cuddling the child when he awakens in the night, kissing his cheek when putting him to bed--doing all the things she would do if she loved the child.

Sharon, you moved your son from the class room because of what the teacher did or didn't DO, not necessarily how she felt. Her emotions might have directed her actions, but another teacher might dislike your son also, but you and he would never know because her responses are as if she liked him.

I'm an adoptive mother and I worry less about how I feel about my daughter and more about how I react. It doesn't matter how much love I feel for my daughter if I yell more than I cuddle and feeling love won't prevent me from yelling (just ask my husband!).

A person can not feel love but still feel empathy and sympathy. True, sometimes if your not acting on pure instict, you have to catch yourself -- but even when you love someone, if you're, tired or sick, you don't always respond in the best way.

I have always found using feelings as a barometer for relationships really inaccurate. Gauging the quality of a relationship by evaluating emotions is why abused women stay with their abusers ("But I love him"), why people get divorced for vague reasons ("I just don't love her anymore") and an excuse for people not living up to obligations ("I don't feel like it.").

I'm with Elizabeth (Shoshana), in that I think behavior therapy is more effective than trying to change someone's thoughts. You can't help how you feel, but you can help what you do.

I'm trained as an actress, and actors know that working on roles can spill over into their personal lives. In the last play I was in, I played a character really furious at her father. I spent the entire run of the show furious at the director. It wasn't until long after, that I realized I'd been investing so much effort into pretending I was angry, that it had made me angry.