[jaja'smom]

I have children I gave birth to, an adopted child, and hoping for another child. I am posting on this site because it is listed for adoptive parents and my intention is not to start an argument with women who gave birth but did not parent their children, but to get input from other adoptive parents.

I have read a lot of the threads here from start to finish and the amount of pain and anger around events that for so many people are filled with joy, is staggering.

It seems that many 'birthmothers' and 'adoptees' blame their pain and anger on a society that many years ago practically forced 'unwed mothers' into 'closed' adoptions. Looking back, I think we can all see this was probably wrong in almost every case. But, and I'm getting to my point here, I think 'society' has swung too far the other way and this time it is the adoptive parents who are being 'forced' into 'open' adoptions that they may not be comfortable with but may be the only way they can ever hope to raise a child.

I know, and agree, that 'the studies show' that open adoption is healthier. (sorry about all the quotation marks). But I believe that is based on 'open adoption' meaning that all parties know the demographics of each other and the birthmother receives updates of some kind on a regular basis. I'm all for that kind of openess. What I, and I think many adoptive parents are less comfortable with, is the notion that an adopted child is "our' child and should have an initial and ongoing relationship with the mother who gave birth to him or her but for whatever reason is not the mother who is raising him/her. And if we don't agree to that we aren't likely to find a child to adopt.

I think it is to soon for the studies to see how healthy this is for everyone involved. It seems to me that many posts I've read here from 'birthmothers' who want this, carry the underlying message that these women have not emotionally let go of their children enough to allow the adoptive parents to raise them. I don't want to raise my child under these constraints and I don't think it would be healthy. Am I way offbase?

[mamasaid]

yes.

[jaja'smom]

I'm guessing this is yes to the 'way off base'' rather than the 'can adoptions be too open?' ?

If so , I'm struggling with this question, please elaborate. Thank you.

[mamasaid]

the only reason I am responding is because I am hoping to adopt someday. I, too, am a bmom.

It seems to me that many posts I've read here from 'birthmothers' who want this, carry the underlying message that these women have not emotionally let go of their children enough to allow the adoptive parents to raise them. I don't want to raise my child under these constraints and I don't think it would be healthy

why should a birthmother emotionally let go? please realize placement is not about a woman freeing herself from her love, feelings or caring for her baby. that is why she probably placed in the first place...because she loves her baby and wants what is best for him/her, and a birthmother has a lot of courage to look at herself and admit "I am not what is best" -- and that is a PAINFUL THING!

why is it "not okay" for birthmothers to love their children so much that they place them in adoptive homes and still want visits and/or pictures, photos, emails...phone calls? This is not about birthmothers who "cannot let go" -- if anything closed adoption promotes a birthmother to "not let go" being they oftentimes in closed adoption settings cannot rest ONE DAY because they are wondering if their children are alive or dead, well taken care of or happy or where they are.

You as an adoptive parent, have the choice during the match process and after the baby is placed whether or not to give those things to the birthmother, to your child, and to yourself. There is nothing wrong with an adoptee knowing his/her bparents by picture, by yearly visit or otherwise. But if adoptive parents continue to think it "isn't healthy" -- then, yes, an adoptee will think it is "unhealthy" also. I can only ask why. Please remember what a birthmother is giving her child...a family that a child deserves and also realize what you, as an adoptive parent, are receiving...with that having been said, can you really tell yourself that sending a picture or a card or visiting once a year seems like "too much"? if you are saying that it is not healthy for a child to know his/her roots, medical history, or a picture just to see...then there is something here that I cannot further comment on.

I find it rather odd that an adoptive parent who hopes a birthmother will place her child FOREVER in your home and a part of your family would not be willing to break the veil of secrecy that for SO MANY YEARS has been dysfunctional and just plain painful. But, it is up to you. I, when I adopt, will never be able to hope or insist on a closed adoption because that means most likely there will be a mother out there hurt, angry, devastated and regretful...and a possible adoptee that will be resentful, hurt, angry and confused...all for what? protection? There are a lot of happy adoptees out there and a lot of happy birthmothers out there...but I would have to say they are few and far between.

[Sharon]

I think there's a lot of sense in what you said. Semi-open adoption (pictures and health updates) is definitely a reasonable compromise. I'm pretty lukewarm on the idea of visitation anyway. If that's what both parties agreed to beforehand, then yes...they need to try and follow through with it. But, I don't think it would be at all unreasonable if the birthmother and adoptive mother chose to correspond through letters and photos only, or via e-mail. Possibly in a lot of cases, this would be the best thing for everyone involved. Hope everything works out for you and your family!

[jaja'smom]

Thankyou for the reply. I obviously was not very clear in my original post.

What I was trying to say is I AGREE with open adoption, to include photos, updates, sharing of information, even occasional visits. I do not think we should ever return to the old 'closed' adoptions.

I DO think a birthmother has to let go emotionally TO AN EXTENT. She will always (in most instances) love/care about/ worry about and maintain an emotional bond with her child. My fear/concern/question is with a birthmother who doesn't seem to let go of the emotional investment of PARENTING her child. If she cannot do that how can she pass on that right to the child's parent(S).

As an adoptive mother I know firsthand that my child's birthmother loved her enough to place her and continues to love her. I never meant to sound as though I felt any other way than that.

I don't think open adoptions are unhealthy. I'm in one and I am happy that my daughter will have no answered questions about her heritage. I have no interest in a veil of secrecy and did not mean to give that impression in my post.

I DO want my husband and I to be unequivocally our child's only parents.

Thankyou again for giving me a chance to clarify.

[bnsheerose]

Hi there! I am a bmom and in reading these messages, I can see where sometimes it's hard to understand exactly what someone means. I gotcha though. I think.
My daughter's parents are exactly that. Her parents. I am one of her mothers. I have heard of those times that bmoms have "overstepped" some boundaries to an unhealthy level. On the same hand, I have personally seen where bmoms have made a lot of "sacrifices" for the aparents, and the aparents became so jealous and possessive of the child that it caused many hurt feelings and broken promises, which is also not healthy. I agree that an open adoption with pictures, health information, and a reasonable joint effort for contact is beneficial to all involved. I think what can be hard sometimes, is that aparents who are not able to have children of their own seem to think that bmoms should just be able to disconnect their feelings or attachment to their child. They seem to want this child completely to themselves, which I can understand, but, I think that an aparent should not be that "selfish" considering how "unselfish" amoms have to be to offer their children for adoption in the first place. I am sorry if I sound offensive, but I believe that with any choice like this, there are certain sacrifices that all involved will have to make one way or another. Even if that means that an aparent only stands a chance of parenting by allowing some form of contact. I guess, to me, that seems like a small price to pay? As a bmom, I made a "sacrifice" for someone else to have the joy of parenting that I do and to give my daughter a better future, by my own choice. And, yes, it hurts very much still, some days. I will always live with mixed emotions, but over time, I will continue to learn how to deal with it. She is still my daughter; she is still a part of my heart and life, and of course, I would never dream of "overstepping" those fine lines with her parents. I respect them, and I hope they will do the same in return. Keeping some form of contact helps my own healing. It is a reassurance that I need. On these forums, I have heard of so much bitterness, resentment, etc. from bmoms--however, I also think that I have seen it sometimes as much from aparents. I think that the healthiest thing for these much loved children, is to work together and keep communication open. After all, we all have the same goal...the best future and well-being for our children. I would hope that in a society where mixed families are so common, that families involved in adoption, will someday realize the same benefits can apply. Again, I am not trying to offend anyone, just offering my viewpoint. Thanks!

Cat W.

P.S. I realize, that sometimes, messages get deleted because "someone" found them offensive. I would hope that we are all fair enough to realize that no matter how careful we are..in this world there will always be "someone" who will find "something" offensive. This was not written towards any one person directly. Thank-you.

[jaja'smom]

Thanks for your thoughts. I did not find them offensive in anyway. I am starting to feel that there are probably some issues that many birthmothers and many adoptive parents will never see eye to eye on and that is just how it is going to have to be.

I know I am extremely 'possesive' of all my children, those I gave birth to and the one I adopted. I know no other way to be.

If I felt differently about my adopted daughter, just because she 'didn't grow under my heart, but in it' than I feel about my older children it wouldn't be fair to her. Luckily that could never be an issue because my husband and I know what so many adoptive parents know, biology just doesn't enter into the picture when it comes to loving your children.

[Sharon]

jaja'smom, don't get discouraged. There is a lot of defensiveness on both sides of the adoption issue (all three sides, if you count adult adoptees). Many of us feel victimized and mistreated by the system, and occasionally people on this forum do feel compelled to lash out at one another (I'm not saying anyone's doing that on this thread, but it HAS been known to happen). We all need to remember that we've got a lot to learn from one another. All members of the triad should unite for the purpose of reforming and improving the system itself, so that it is fair to everyone involved. You sound like a reasonable person and a great mom, and I wish you and your family lots of happiness! Sincerely, Sharon

[jp33]

I think some can be "too open"...
Now, the one where the aparents send a pic, etc to the agency and thats forwarded to the birthmom, if thats what everyone had agreed on originally, sounds like the best idea to me...

Its the visitation and the general sharing of I'm your adopted mother and the birthmom saying but I'm your "real" mother (and I know some do this with no tact and sympathy for how a child may react)....the whole heres your adopted brother but today heres your bio brother, grandma, aunt, it seems a little much...
some contact, okay, but all the drama of having a young child try to digest all that other seems a bit overbearing...

Like I stated before in another post, in my opinion, if you want to give up your child then you should do so.....that many of the open adoptions are way to open, and I just dont see the point of
a bmother wanting to give up her child but then wanting a contract to visit him all throughout his life....if a bmother wants all that then perhaps giving the child up should not have been an option....just my opinion....as both as adult adoptee and a birthmom at the age of 16......and an adopting parent now...

I think theres so much a child can comprehend safely at such young ages....and I agree with whats said regarding how do you know that open adoptions are more healthy and more successful until those adopted grow up and tell you?????

Yes, the answer is, yes, some open adoption seem too open , to me.

Thanks

[Emily K. Broggi]

I DO want my husband and I to be unequivocally our child's only parents.

As adoptive parents, you never will be (unless the bparents are unworthy of the honor, ie: abuse, neglect, etc.). I know you think open adoptions are good, I understand where you're comming from, but you have got to realize that an adopted child almost always (because in some cases, children that have been born or are still in the womb have never had true parents) already have two parents, his/her first parents, you as the adopting couple will be their second set...not second best...that isn't what I mean, I said second set. This is something that you should have understood before adopting.

For example, I am my child's mother. Because I had to fullfill this duty, I am not her ONLY mother...but I AM her FIRST. Does that make me any 'more' her mother than her second, or adoptive mother is? Depends on whom you speak with, but to me...certainly not. I am mother in the truest form, as is her amom...just in different ways.

It is possible that you and I have different definitions of "mother" for to me...powdering a tush or scaring off the boogy man doesn't make a mother, neither does getting pregnant or giving birth. Being a true mother is so much deeper.

I hope I wasn't offensive, as I was going for 'informative.'



Hope to hear back,
Emily

[Emily K. Broggi]

Now, the one where the aparents send a pic, etc to the agency and thats forwarded to the birthmom

This is a "semi-open" adoption.

sharing of I'm your adopted mother and the birthmom saying but I'm your "real" mother

This is odd and not typical of an "open-adoption." With us, I am her birthmom, Emily and amom is just plain old "Mom." My daughter knows that she is adopted, but that doesn't change the way she sees us, I am Emily and she is Mom, its just that simple. We don't say this is the woman who is raising you because your real mother could not, but she is your real mom too because she did adopt you...for heaven's sake, now that would be confusing. We explain more and more as she grows who mean what to her life. She already knows "who's who"she just doesn't "get" what we mean to her (she's 3). The more questions she asks and the more she is able to comprhend, the more we tell her about her situation. Neither of us ever use the term "real mom" for we are both her "real mom."

some contact, okay, but all the drama of having a young child try to digest all that other seems a bit overbearing...

Well as earlier stated, this is not typical of an open adoption, however, if this is how the child knows everyone in his or her life, what is anymore overbearing than any large family and teaching a young child who everyone is to him/her?

if you want to give up your child then you should do so.....

For te record, I don't believe any mother really wants to place their child. Also it intrigues me that you use the terms, "give up" as a bmom yourself...

a bmother wanting to give up her child but then wanting a contract to visit him all throughout his life

The point is to stay a part of your child's life, like you have been from the very beginning of his/her existance...the point is to know your child and make sure he or she knows you. The point is to make sure your child has every single question regarding you, answered straight from you. The point is to make sure your child is 'whole' and has you if ever he or she needs or wants you, piece of mind as to the looks and whereabouts of your child and to be able to allow them to have that information also. The point is to help with healing (and their are wounds involved in adoption) of both parties. Their are many universal points and then their are personal points...I know 'seeing' my child is healing...hugging her, kissing her, telling her I love her...I placed her with others not because we wanted to, but because in order for my daughter to have what she deserved in life, we had no other choice. I still have my natural 'right' to love her. Again, you stated that you are a bmom, I am very supprised that I have to be telling YOU all this...I have to assume your adoption was closed. I'm sorry if I'm correct.

perhaps giving the child up should not have been an option

Forgive me, I'm unclear. The urge to see and have a relationship with my child wouldn't have put food in her belly of a roof over her head. Are you implying that adoption should be'good-bye' forever, and I'll never see you again? If so....why?

how do you know that open adoptions are more healthy and more successful

We don't. However, closed ones obviously haven't worked. Have you met or reasearched on adult adoptees from closed adoptions? I'm not sayng it damaged ALL of them, but I'll certainly say the majority felt 'empty' or not 'whole' or that 'a part of them was missing.' For some, it took total control of their lives at some point, if I can take even the possiblity of any of that for my daughter...I will.

I hope you'll give me some feedback!

Thanks.
Emily

[jp33]

I agree.

Getting pregnant and giving birth doesnt make someone a mother....nor getting the woman pregnant make someone a dad..

Neither does "powdering a tush" or "scaring off the boogey man"...anyone can do that.

For sharing your heart, your soul....for 24 hour constant love and care,
for sleeping on the floor beside those tiny beds during sick nights...for teaching love and trust and those abc's....for being there no matter what time of the day night or week....for understanding....for listening....for protecting...for providing basic material things...for instilling love and values....for never ever giving up no matter how tired you may be....for never ever forgetting to kiss and say I love you before bedtime...for every single pain they have you have it too....for the way your heart feels like it will explode with love at the sight of this child....
those things make you a mother....and more....

I disagree with you...an adopted mother and father CAN be
a childs parent uneqivocally, in that regard....

As you said, anyone can give birth....that doesnt make you a mother....doesnt make you a parent....

[jp33]

Really. Why? Because as you mentioned, I said the words,
"give up?"...just wording...if you would rather be more politically correct I should have said what? Relinquish my child????? Nobody ever said I WANTED too, is that what your assuming, just by my choice of words? If so, thats presumptious of you.

As I stated, I'm sure some open adoptions work fine. I also stated they were just not for me...not that they werent for anyone else.

I never said nor implied that a bmom had to stop loving or caring about the child....that they had to "forget" the child....thats impossible.....what I said in my own way, is that if you feel you have to okay, I"ll say 'relinquish" your child then you should let the child have peace and find love and security with their adopted parents....certainly its a great help to know your child is doing well and so on, as I said, I knew my child was....all of her life....I do however feel, as I said, that some people push too much with all the visitation requests, etc.....its my personal feeling that the child should be allowed to live his life....the life as a bmom you gave him to live....if people want that much physical contact and personal contact then perhaps adoption placement was not the correct path to take.....

I was 16 when my child was adopted....and no, not at birth..
I kept her for almost 5 monthes before "relinquishing".....and,
yes I did see her until she was almost 2....the adopted parents asked if I could stop letting her see me for awhile as it was upsetting her and confusing her and leaving her crying...
and I completely agreed.....I gave them the gift of her life....
why shouldnt I respect them and their request made sense..
why leave a child upset???? Just to what? Ease a bmoms sense
of what????? Guilt??? No......I watched her grow from afar....and I never bothered her...and what a beautiful and smart and successful woman she now is...... I take no credit....her parents
made her the person she is....Sometimes its best to let the child
live her life....and remain out of it....in a physical sense.

If my opionons are offensive, I'm sorry. But, thats my take on it..
just my opionions....

[stacyone]

Wow... there's some good reading here. Maybe Adoption.com should be keeping some of these posts and, after editing, put them in a book to sell to benefit children's charities?

I'm an amom in an open adoption. I absolutely believe that my daughter needs to know where she came from, who her blood relatives are. We e-mail pictures at least once a month, send hard photos a couple of times a year, and at this point are committed to visiting once a year. When we went for our visit a couple of weeks ago, M's bmom and I talked about some of these issues. She has no problem with the title 'birthmother', after I explained that when I use it, I'm thinking of it as an honorarium. I love my daughter passionately, but I did not give birth to her. I can never replace that woman who did. She loves her daughter passionately, too, but can never replace me. I am the person my daughter reaches for at the end of the day. We agreed that even if this becomes very difficult for us, it's important for the children (she's raising her two sons) to know each other. While I am very comfortable with M having two mothers, I admit it would be hard if we saw them more than a couple of times a year. It's such an emotional rollercoaster for all of us.

As long as everyone is on the same page from the beginning regarding communication and tries to keep their ego out as much as possible, I think that open adoption is the best adoption solution. I suppose eventually we'll get all sorts of statistics about all the "damage" we're doing (probably in the same report that tells us lettuce causes cancer!) but we're all doing our best, and that's what counts.

I also appreciate these forums. I know how hard it is to refrain from personal attacks sometimes. I look at it this way: these can be very volatile and passionate threads but it's such a volatile issue. At the base of it, we want children EVERYWHERE to feel loved, safe, and secure. If that's not worth getting heated up over, what is?