[BlackSheep]

I'm just going to put a couple of thoughts out there, don't know that they are exactly organized....

Tann was able to change society's view about children and adoption. With this view, she was also able to get society to "think like her" in the aspect of sealing records, etc. Also, views about birthmothers and that they should not be "allowed" to raise their children. (We have come past that one somewhat, although the view of single mothers can still be shakey). In order to "change" the view about sealed records and "privacy" society's view about this must change to one of seeing from the adoptee's point of view. The "need to know" and all that goes with it. Education, IMO, of society in general, needs to change. Not sure how Tann accomplished this in her day, but I see that as a starting point.

Another thought is all the "helpers" that were in this with Tann, how/why were they "innocent"? I didn't see anything to indicate that anyone, Tann or anyone else, was held responsible for all that was going on.

I agree with Crick on the, why is it that all that is today in and wrong with adoption is still in force 60 years later. Yes, it takes more to change a "tradition" of secrecy, but it still can be done.

A couple of thoughts I had. I am looking forward to reading more from others.

[Dickons]

Crick,

I have thought long and hard on why nothing has been changed by those with the power to do so. Short answer, they are not adopted so will never 'get it'. Long answer, I was reading an older transcript of discussions by a government committee on compensation and anonymous donations of embryo's etc. Every single want to be a parent comment was to keep everything status quo so they could be parents and that there was a need to keep the supply up (I was appalled), and that changing the process would deny the want to be a parent group of THEIR desires. The opposing side referenced the issues of not knowing, health, civil rights and the comments from those in the committee were 'what is the big deal in not knowing your biological roots'. I have stated my opinion before that change will only come when adoptive parents stand up, unite and do something - they hold the power by simply being the one side of the triad that society will listen to with an open mind.

That is my opinion on why nothing has changed.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[crick]

Dickons, I agree that aparents might play a bigger role in getting congress and others to listen now and for the future. I think too though that after Tann died and her crimes were "fresh" so to speak, they had the perfect means & opportunity to rectify things. The state of TN responded accordingly but others didn't necessarily. None of that depended on the voice of aparents, just people who knew what was right and did it.

[Dickons]

Crick,

My memory is very poor and without looking it up - did Tn not just cover it up by making all the adoptions legal and sealing those records? Wasn't that just much easier than doing the right thing? Am I confused?

I just did a quick search and did not confirm any of this but world wide: 6 countries have never sealed adoption records (Norway, Israel, Finand, Mexico, France, Saudi Arabia); 17 countries have opened sealed adoption records (Scotland, Russia, England, Sweden, Argentina, Germany, Taiwan, Poland, Argentia, Venezuela, US Virgin Islands, S. Korea, Brazil, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Australia). Canada has opened records in 6 provinces/territories (including the most populated provinces) and 2 more provinces are partially opened. The US is far behind and probably has more adoptions than any other country.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[crick]

I thought that TN was an open state now? They rectified it back in the 90's? You are right at the time of her death they didn't. I meant after all the years, people finally ended up doing the right thing.

Maybe I am remembering it wrong.

[Dickons]

Crick,

I think you are right...but I just cannot get over the fact that making the adoptions legal when they were blatantly illegal caused even more problems - could they not have done the right thing? Is/was humanity that flawed that they could not see how that would compound the harm already done? All those children (and adults by that time) who with the signing of that act had their lives altered irrevocably forever and that before that the state could have reunited and rectified the injustice. Cowards - ever single one of them.

But based on the news today re officials in NJ (not adoption related to my knowledge) - corruption is still rampant and not going away any time soon.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[crick]

Oh, no argument from me on what they *should* have done! lol.

I was thinking the other day about Tann still can't do much other than shake my head and go...'gah'.

[thanksgivingmom]

FINISHED (and digested!)

I'll write down my thoughts tomorrow though.....

[Dickons]

I am a triva nut and at times read famous quotes. I was reading quotes by Thomas Jefferson and the following quote seemed to fit this thread.

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Thomas Jefferson

I was completely taken aback when I read that Mississippi had a law on the books that allowed parents to adopt a child under condition that the child would not inherit from them and that ethical social workers deplored this condition as they realized that children adopted would be treated as servants.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[thanksgivingmom]

I think some of what hits me the hardest isn't the illegal activity that we can look at and say, "That's WRONG" or "that NEEDS to change."

I'm not shocked by her involvement in sealing records - I'm angered, infuriated, and frustrated, but not altogether shocked - and as previous posters have said, Tann cannot be held solely responsible for the legacy that has been upheld since her death. It doesn't change how wrong what she did was, not in the least. I'm, of course, disgusted by the treatment of the children. Deaths, disease, abuse - it's disgusting and the work of a sadistic monster imo.

The extreme wrongs that took place at her hands, and the hands of those around her are deplorable. But I believe that we CAN work to make changes to legislature. I'm always inspired by adoptee rights rallies, conventions, bills, and the work being done to right the legal wrongs.

But what also stuck with me through reading the book were the societal perceptions - things that can't be righted as "easily" (because we all know that unsealing records and changing the legal system is often anything BUT easy).

I couldn't help but read and become so saddened by the value that was placed on having money - and how adoption came to be a landscape where bigger is better and richer is more valuable in so many ways other than financial security. Wealthy is good and poor is bad and there are pregnant women that are still told by society that they can't buy all the fancy toys and THINGS that their children "need" so they'll be better off raised by another.

These perceptions won't change with a legal victory.....and understanding how these perceptions were created - purposefully and maliciously, was one of the hardest pills to swallow.

[RavenSong]

One of the unsettling things to me about Georgia Tann's legacy is what TGM mentioned...the societal perception or opinion that more money equals better parents. I think this perception is still very much alive in our society. How many times have we all read on these very boards how the baby of a failed match will not be able to grow up with all the opportunities that it would have had if he or she had been raised by the adoptive parents? I read one post just last week that lamented that the infant would now be raised by an "uneducated" mother. To me that smacks of classism and entitlement.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

One of the unsettling things to me about Georgia Tann's legacy is what TGM mentioned...the societal perception or opinion that more money equals better parents. I think this perception is still very much alive in our society. How many times have we all read on these very boards how the baby of a failed match will not be able to grow up with all the opportunities that it would have had if he or she had been raised by the adoptive parents? I read one post just last week that lamented that the infant would now be raised by an "uneducated" mother. To me that smacks of classism and entitlement.

Exactly Raven!

And that's something that I don't know how to change and it scares me and saddens me and I just get so frustrated.....

I watched that 16 and Pregnant Reunion and the teens that placed their daughter for adoption would be amazing parents - but they kept talking about the material things that the child deserved to have - the "best" of everything it seemed. They were wonderful, and just wanted a different life for their child than what they had. At the reunion it seemed clear (to me) that they COULD have provided a different life for their child. The first Mom had removed herself from her Mothers home because of it's dysfunction. They would have struggled, but I believe that the perception of the importance of money played a huge role.

I'm not meaning to tangent this thread, but especially with regards to finances, adoption is such a permanent solution to an often temporary problem - and I do think that the landscape of adoption during Tann's involvement paved that road.

[BlackSheep]

TGM and Raven-very well said.

When Tann changed the attitude of adoption to one that the children were "blank slates" she managed to change the perception of the children being adopted as not being "tainted", whatever that is supposed to mean, like a baby can be "tainted" at birth! Well, by doing so, and also charging such steep prices for her "services" she managed to implement a new look as to what was "important" in a child' life. Well, it takes a lot of money to fill that "blank slate"!

BUT, children have been overcoming poverty and lack of material items in their childhood and becoming very successful adults for a very long time. They manage to educate themselves and move on in both society and life. There is nothing wrong with that.

Tann's ideas about who and what a "good" parent is boils down to what so much of American society deems "important", a house in the right neighborhood, an IRA, your portfolio, the "right" wardrobe to wear (fall, winter, spring and summer),I could go on and on. Is this what is the most important thing(s) in our life?

How do we change the view of society as a whole?

If societal views have changed once (probably more times than we know), then they can change again. My opinion, one person at a time needs to change their attitude about adoptees, their view of birth parents and adoptive parents. We need to start talking, IMO. Not just adoptees, but all in the triad.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by BlackSheep

How do we change the view of society as a whole?

If societal views have changed once (probably more times than we know), then they can change again. My opinion, one person at a time needs to change their attitude about adoptees, their view of birth parents and adoptive parents. We need to start talking, IMO. Not just adoptees, but all in the triad.

Agreed!

I think this does bring up some problems with agencies whose job is (to some degree) "recruiting" women to place their children for adoption. These women need to have a reason to place, and a precarious financial situation is as good a reason as any for an agency to exploit.

I'm certianly not saying that ALL agencies do this, but I'm a firm believer that coercion still exists in todays adoption landscape. I do believe that one of the ways this occurs is by convincing women that they cannot give their child what someone else can.

[BlackSheep]

I really hate to see this thread get buried again. It really has so much to say to all in the triad. Can we get any more discussion on this book? It is so much of an eye opener.