[dadfor2]

i was brought up catholic...(not very strict though, my parents were liberal)...

here is my issue, my wife and I go to church every sunday...we are planning on raising our boys catholic also....i have never thought about switching religions, ever.....

we belong to a very liberal church...its run by the paulist fathers...we ahve alot of gay people that attend this church due to them being so liberal.

we were invited to one of our friends wedding, him and his partner are getting married.

they asked us if we knew any churches that would marry them, since they cant get married in their own church..... they want a some what tradional wedding and they have stong religious beliefs.

lately ive been talking to my wife, and we have belonged to this church for a long time, our priest is a wonderful guy, and would be the first one in line to marry a gay couple if he could, hes also made the papers because he greeted John Kerry when he was running for president into the church...(john kerry was divorced) he goes to our church.

anyway,
im feeling real negative about this....i guess everything hit home for me, when my friends now cant get married in the church they belong to.

oh by the way, their fine with this.. .they told me they love their/ our church..and believe me, its a great church..very supportive and all of that.

but im not feeling good about going anymore...

i dont want my boys being raised in a church that discriminates over anyone....

but i cant imagine being anything else but catholic...

i really am having a hard time with this....my wife is fine with this...she said that the church will not dictate on our own teachings of who we are as people and as catholics...and if we leave, then what about the ones that might be fighting for change, if there is no one left then who will fight for it....

but im really having a hard time.

i do want to bring my boys up with some sence of religion...i think its important....but i have no idea on what im going to do.

what have others done...im sure im not the only one, who has been practicing a certain religion then one day wake up and realize that im feeling like a hipocrite (sp?), and im starting to really question on what im doing with my own spiritual beliefs....

has anyone gone through this....i really am leaning more to change my religion...but at the same time, i cant even imagine that....anyone else have strong religious beliefs and at one point really questioned it...

i know this is not an adoption issue...and i apologise for this..but this one really is making me question who i am really....

im real confused with this...

[bumpkin]

Hi Dad!

My Dh and I went through this over the last few years as well. We were both raised as Catholics and were regular church goers. As is the case, I'd imagine, with many young Catholics, were took most of the faith and then left the rest that we didn't want, ie... homesexuality, women leading the church, pro choice etc.... I guess we were your typical "Cafeteria Catholics". At different times in ourlives it bothered us to different degrees. It wasn't until we found out a very good friend was involved with the Church Sex Abuse scandal and really found out more about that, that we decided we COULD NOT stay. (by the way, this was not the only friend who had this issue).... this period also coincided with our son age, he was going to be making first communion the following year, so we thought if we were going to switch we should switch before then. We went to a couple of different churches and really felt VERY comfortable with our local Episcopal Church - they were more liberal, as we liked, had almost icdential ideological beliefs (yes they do believe in the Virgin Mary) and the service was very, very similar - so we were comfortable. Most of the young people were Catholic converts and our priest was raised Catholic!

The hardest part was telling our families, but in actuality, it was easier than I thought.

Just wanted you to know you aren't the only one!

[spitzlvr]

Hi Dad.

Boy, can I understand! (Not sure I can help you, but I do understand). I am Catholic. My dh is episcapol. <-sp.

We alternate churches - his one week, mine the next. His is so much warmer than mine! They do not discriminate against people, unlike my church. At dh's church I am welcome to receive communion. At my church he is not. My MIL wants to know when I will convert. (Of course her asking makes me dig in my heels!)

What it comes down to (for me) is I am Catholic. I do not agree with alot of church teachings, but that doesn't change the fact that I am Catholic. I can go to my dh's church, but that does not change me.

We had our son baptized Catholic. He attends both churches (and can be a full member of either one), and when he is older can choose one, or both.

I think you could go to a different church, but still remain a Catholic. I think it is what's in your heart that counts.

And from what I have seen of you in the forums Dad, you heart is in the right place.

[tobeafamily]

Dad,

You and me both. Really. Wierd how your words could also be mine here.

For me, Catholicism is so much a part of my cultural upbringing that it's so hard. The faith is woven into the tapestry that is my life. Yet I do not agree (!) and I do feel hypocritical if I profess the faith but do not accept it in its' whole.

I wish I had an answer, I wish when you find me that you'll share .

Regina

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by tobeafamily

Dad,

You and me both. Really. Wierd how your words could also be mine here.

For me, Catholicism is so much a part of my cultural upbringing that it's so hard. The faith is woven into the tapestry that is my life. Yet I do not agree (!) and I do feel hypocritical if I profess the faith but do not accept it in its' whole.

I wish I had an answer, I wish when you find me that you'll share .

Regina

I pmed Dad with my feelings as I did not feel comfotable with posting them on the web...I did say to him.even though I am so conflicted I get very defensive if a non catholic critzes the catholic faith...make sense???.no...but the saying that "once a catholic always a catholic "is just so very true and regins you stated as to why...it is also a cultue...way of life...its tough to just shed it

[dadfor2]

thanks guys...i knew i wasnt the only one...

over the weekend i did find a protestant church that is very liberal, and a lesbian is the minister there....

they have the big gay flag hanging out the window...

for some reason, when i see that flag, i think that would be a nice place to go...shop...eat...or whatever, so for our GLBT friends out there...keep those flags flying.....lol straight people notice them too.

this church is actually minutes from my home....so i think im going to go just to see what it is like.

at one point, years ago, i went to a UU church because a friend told me how wonderful it was....it was interesting, but i knew it wasnt for me...the whole catholic thing..

spitz...i guess thats what i am feeling...i am catholic, and i dont know if i can change to something else...

my wife said she will be willing to look at other churches, but then she will be going to both, she is very active, more active then i am...in our church. we are both on the same page with this stuff..but she made it clear that she will not be leaving our church.

bumpkin, actually an Episcopal Church is where i sent my friends to....i hooked them up with a friend of mine who attends that church and has a licence to marry them...plus she is a lesbian, so iim sure they would feel more comfortable there.....

regina.."Catholicism is so much a part of my cultural upbringing that it's so hard. The faith is woven into the tapestry that is my life"

bingo...how can i change someting, when it is my whole being.....im so torn...

[MNelson]

This was an issue with me and my first husband. He is a Catholic and I was raised (at least early on) in the Episcopal church. At the time (when I was 25) I thought when raising kids it would be really important that we be united in our religious practices and that we attend church regularly. I tried really hard to convince my then husband to convert to Episcopalianism because it really seemed to be more aligned with our actual beliefs (which were aligned with each other). It just seemed hypocritical to go through the motions at the Catholic church every week. And I just couldn't convert w/o believing EVERYTHING, even though he could pick and choose because he was born into it. LOL bumpkin, hadn't heard the term "Cafeteria Catholic", but that fit the situation to a "T". I just couldn't convince him though, because as Regina says, it was so ingrained as a part of who he is.

That's why I ultimately came to the conclusion that it is best for me to raise our son without instilling a particular religion to be so much a part of who he is, but to instead raise him with a strong sense of spirituality and openness to different faiths and beliefs.

I do wish I could find a church that would provide the sense of community while achieving that goal (UU is high on my list, but alas the one in my town closed ).

[tobeafamily]

Dad - I went to a few UU services too once and, well, while it was really very nice it just wasn't, well, a Catholic mass LOL.

I am seriously contemplating checking out the Friends, as they have a strong tradition around here, many meeting houses.

Plareb, I'm with you on the spirituality and our son. DH is technically Methodist, no interest in converting and no interest in going. When I met him he was going to Church of Christ services - that was really wild for me. Stopped though shortly after we met. Not because of me, I think he was really only going there because all the women he met in bars were icky and he figured he'd try something new.

DH and I both made the decision to teach him that it's about how he lives vs. what rituals he performs that matters to God. More complicated then that, this medium's failing me here. Just a very similiar sentiment.

Because it's odd - I wouldn't trade being raised in the Faith for anything. If anything, from Catholicism I probably learned more about cynicism and about joy and about forces that unify a community and about the value of ritual (both pos and neg) than anywhere else. So why wouldn't I want this for my son? Yet I don't.

Ack.

Regina

[spaypets]

Believe it or not, as a nice Jewish girl, I completely understand the connection you're feeling to Catholicism, even though you're objecting to many of the teachings.

One can't under estimate the importance of ritual in our lives. It's something the Reform Jewish community has learned. In the early days of the Reform movement, the founders got rid of a lot of the ritual--to the point that in the 1960s when my father accidentally walked in a large reform Temple in NYC, he was asked to remove his hat (Jews cover their heads as a sign of respect for G-d).

But people needed the rituals and these days Reform services are much closer to the traditional service than they used to be. There are differences (American Jews have perfected the cafeteria style of observance -- Glatt Kosher at home and eating bacon in restaurants is about as cafeteria as you can get!).

So it's not surprising that a UU service seemed pleasant but empty. Maybe trying something waaay different, like an African American Baptist Church -- I went to a service at one and loved it (all except the Jesus stuff, LOL!).

[numbr1dbcksfan]

And ELCA is merged with the Episcopal Church and is equally as liberal and Friendly. Just make sure before you go to the Lutheran church that it is ELCA and not Missouri Synod... the mechanics differ a lot. Missouri Synod is more like 'Catholic light'.

Good luck, Dad.

[MNelson]

(Jews cover their heads as a sign of respect for G-d)

And I always thought it was a clever device for covering up a bald spot

[bumpkin]

I echo again many of your thoughts. It was VERY hard, we just felt that we had to do something, we weren't going to church, we were feeling soooooooo hypocritical just sitting in the pew. I am Irish and Italian, so it is VERY ingrained in my life as well. . . . It was difficult to make the move, but I decided that God doesn't descriminate, I don't think he'll hold it against me, and it's basically the same Religion, just a different church. Also, we didn't make the decision overnight, you may feel differently after going to services.

Dad, if it's any help the decision was hard, it wasn't like we woke up one day and weren't Catholic anymore. Actually the making of the decision was worse than actually doing it!

[79nic]

Dad,

I've been meaning to talk my dh into trying a Unitarian church with me for a long time, and this thread spurred me to search the Internet for one near us. (Bear with me, this will relate to you soon, I promise.)

Anyway, I googled Unitarian church plus our town, and found that there is a Unitarian church here. (Yippee!!!!) They have a website, so I started checking it out.

And..... guess what I found?

They have a calendar of events on their site. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE ONGOING EVENTS THAT IS LISTED (copied and pasted; only xxxx'ed out info that would identify the town I live in):

San Damiano Chapel Services
Time: 4:00pm - 6:30pm EST
Location: Carriage House Sun Room
San Damiano Chapel is a community of Independent Catholics who hold services each Saturday at 5 p.m. in the Carriage House of the Unitarian Universalist Congregation of xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx Street, xxxxx, PA.

San Damiano Chapel is a Catholic church, independent of Roman control, but which maintains its Catholic identity, Apostolic Succession, and Sacramental and Liturgical worship in the Traditions of the historic Catholic Church. Our faith beliefs are contained in the Apostles and Nicene Creeds, the Revelation of God found in Canonical Scriptures, the Seven Sacraments of Catholic Tradition, and the normative decrees of the Seven Ecumenical Councils of the undivided Church.

The community of San Damiano Chapel believes that matters of Faith may be defined for the Church only in the presence of a consensus of all Clergy, and that a teaching proposed by the Clergy must also be received by a consensus of the People of God. We respect freedom of thought in matters religious, civil, political, scientific, and philosophical, believing in the primacy of informed conscience and asking only moral conduct which is appropriate for all Christians.

All people, regardless of current or prior religious affiliations, disagreement with official teaching of Roman doctrines, dogmas or encyclical pronouncement of Papal Infallibility, artificial birth control, divorce and remarriage, gender discrimination, sexual orientation or issues of conscience are welcome.


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So anyway........ if our local Unitarian church has Catholic services like this, maybe a Unitarian church near you does???? Just a thought!!!

Good luck!

Nicole

[katnap80]

Just add my 2 cents to the conversation. I was raised Catholic, but am not a fulltime church go'er. I have attended many Catholic churches in the city, looking for the "right one" but leave feeling worse off. It is not because of the teachings, but because of the hypicritical patrons in attendance. I just decided that if I am not comfortable in G*d's house, I was better off staying away. I could "practise" my teachings in my daily life instead.
Years ago when I was divorced, my mom kept bugging me to get an annulment of my marriage. I have 2 children... what does that make them if my marriage was not acknowledged?????
I don't think G*D minds where we worship, so long as we do. I personally enjoy watching all the different services on TV on Sunday mornings. Each religion has it's pros and cons.....
"K"

[dadfor2]

hi all...has anyone heard of UCC church?..i guess its suppose to be liberal...but the title 'church of christ' scares me a little...

does anyone know anything about that...or should i run for the hills...