[diane3]

Can anyone help us? We have 3 sibs, all have amazing abilities to lie. It's gotten to the point that we don't know when they are or are not telling the truth. Some of the lies are really big and cause tremendous problems within the case. Sometimes it feels a bit scary continuing to keep them. We were just "taken to task" at a family meeting in which mom said one of the kids told her he gets teased at school because of shabby clothes. When we went through the closet together, I was amazed at the number of items that had been hardly worn. He then admitted that he told mom a lie because he wants her to love him more and feel bad for him. Ages are 7,8, and 13.

HELP!

[DianeScraps]

Are they in therapy?

Therapy has helped it with my children.

Part of what helped me in dealing with it was me realizing that the behavior was what they had learned from their birthmom - who has/does lie about ANYTHING

[ca-bigsister]

My FD has lied for years. She finally has mainly gotten over it. She was taught to lie by her addict mother, so it was really just part of her upbringing. When I would ask her why she lied, often without benefit - she would just lie to lie - it wasn't like she would be getting any benefit - she said that she didn't know. I really think that was true.

This has been our biggest barrier - it is very normal. What I have learned is that it isn't personal to you - it isn't something they are doing to YOU. It's something they do. I got it wrong when I would take it personally. It has a lot to do with their upbringing, lack of trust, and if they have attachment disorders.

I am not saying that your foster children have attachment disorder - it needs to be diagnosed. But here's a checklist I got from attachmentdisorder.net that was a lightbulb for me, because my FD had so many of these symptoms. Her therapist was the one who had told me suffered from it.

It has taken a lot of time, therapy, boundaries, punishment, etc. for her to get over it. She has finally learned that she doesn't get anywhere by lying, but by telling the truth. You need to be patient, call them on their lies and tell them they don't need to lie. Pick your battles - i.e., punish them for the big lies. Otherwise, they'll be in trouble all of the time if they lie all of the time. Honestly, this has been the hardest issue I've dealt with as a foster parent. My only advice is not to take it personally - that's what almost drove me crazy because I thought she was doing it to me. It took me a long time to realize it was just something she did and wasn't really even conscious of it. First she had to become conscious of it, and then we dealt with it on a daily basis.

When she got caught lying, there would be huge tears, tantrums, crying, etc. It was very touching. I've learned that it was her big emotional release and also manipulative so I'd let her have a good cry, get mad at me, and then we'd talk about it.

Here is a list I got from www.attachmentdisorder.net

http://www.attachmentdisorder.net/Sy...s_Research.htm

Symptoms, Causes and Research


Symptoms

•Intense control battles, very bossy and argumentative; defiance and anger
•Resists affection on parental terms
•Lack of eye contact, especially with parents - will look into your eyes when lying
•Manipulative - superficially charming and engaging
•Indiscriminately affectionate with strangers
•Poor peer relationships
•Steals
•Lies about the obvious
•Lack of conscience - shows no remorse
•Destructive to property, self and/or others
•Lack of impulse control
•Hypervigilant/Hyperactive
•Learning lags/delays
•Speech and language problems
•Incessant chatter and/or questions
•Inappropriately demanding and/or clingy
•Food issues - hordes, gorges, refuses to eat, eats strange things, hides food
•Fascinated with fire, blood, gore, weapons, evil
•Very concerned about tiny hurts but brushes off big hurts
•Parents appear hostile and angry
•The child was neglected and/or physically abused in the first three years of life

Terry Levy and Mike Orlans answer the question
What is Attachment Disorder?

Symptom Checklist
from Evergreen Consultants

Excellent article at Tulsa Today
Enemy Within

A well-respected center in Colorado that treats RAD
The Institute for Attachment & Child Development

An article from Nancy Thomas' site
Taming the Tiger


Potential Causes

•Neglect
•Abuse
•Separation from the primary caregiver
•Changes in the primary caregiver
•Frequent moves and/or placements
•Traumatic experiences
•Maternal depression
•Maternal addiction - drugs or alcohol
•Undiagnosed, painful illness such as colic, ear infections, etc.
•Lack of attunement between mother and child
•Young or inexperienced mother with poor parenting skills

[Scrapsathome]

I just wanted to add that kids lie. Not just foster kids. My almost 6 year old BD has been lying on and off (for no apparent reason most of the time) for about a year. She seems unconcerned about it and can't say why she does it. We've managed to change part of it. She likes to think about crazy possibilities and say they actually happened. For instance she'll see a dog and say that her friend has a dog that sleeps in a baby crib. We all know it's not true, but she wants to imagine the possibility and hear us react with shock.

We've got her to call these "Mary Stories" because so many of them started being about her friend Mary from church. So if she wants to imagine something she just tells us that it happened to someone in Mary's family and we all know it's pretend. We've told her it's okay to be creative as long as she lets us know it's not true and doesn't try to pretend that it is.

She still lies about little things, though. She'll say she swept the floor, washed her hands, or put something away where it belongs, even though she hasn't done it. If I say I'm going to go check, then she tells the truth and goes and does it. It's frustrating, but I'm hoping that by losing priviledges due to lying she'll eventually decide it's not worth it...essentially out grow the habit.

Jess

[lilraskels]

My 7 year old would lie all the time too when we first got her. I think in their house it was a way of survival. It could be from trivial things to really important things too. In the begening we would just stress that lying was not okay. We moved on from that later to taking her favorite things away. She is now 16 and it is a little easier but she still has a time with telling the full truth unless you ask a million questions. I really think it was genetic and a way to live that she never fully came out of. Whether it was a way of life or a fear of being in trouble I do not know. Good luck. It can be scary when it comes to lies against you or your family. Most of the time therapist can see through this.

[diane3]

I just want to thank you all for the support. I am sorry it's been so long since I posted. THings have been a bit "crazy" around here. We have seen some improvement in the 2 younger siblings, but the eldest is still struggling quite a bit. He is in respit care this week. We all needed a break and time to figure out how we are going to work together as a family while we're all together. FOrtunately, the respit home is the home of one of our PRIDE teachers and she is fantastic, and is working with eldest as are the psychologist, specialized case worker and mentor. Lying has really only been the tip of the iceberg, but at times one of the scariest parts.

THanks again everyone!