[BAC4343]

How do you deal with birth family that denies that the birth parents have ever done anything wrong even though they have a 20+ year criminal history and have spent the majority of their adult lives in jail and the kids will live their entire lives with the consequence of their abuse?

For example, we are in a meeting with the grandparents and the topic of dealing with the kids health problems due to being born addicted to drugs comes up and the grandparents start arguing with everyone that the birth parents NEVER have done drugs even though there is overwhelming proof they have. If anyone mentions that the birth parents are in jail, they get all defensive and say no they are just away for a while even though we are all adults in the room and the kids are not around. It is becoming exhausting because the court is trying to transition the kids to a distant relative and it seems like every meeting is turned into a session for the birth family to argue for the birth parents. Even when we drop them off for visits, it seems they automatically go to the topic of defending the birth parents even though I have said nothing about them. They filed against our adoption stating that no matter what we say they know that we won't allow them to be part of their family and the birth parents won't ever get to see them. The birth parents are being moved to a max security prison and are having visits terminated and that was a court decision based on their crimes, not our decision.

Any advice?

[Fostermom22]

Okay, confused on one thing, you are adopting them or they are moving to kinship care?

As to the grandparents denial my guess is that based on their age, they cannot accept the fact that their child has placed their grandchildren in this situation so this is how they are coping with it. If the children are being adopted and you plan on maintaining that bond I would just keep reassuring them of it for now and hopefully once things are finalized they will come to terms with what happened.

[BAC4343]

We were in the adoption process, but are now on hold because the birth family suddenly decided to challenge it at the last moment. They finally found someone who is going to try to take them so we are starting to have to take the kids to visit this person so the state can see if it is going to work or not. They previously placed these kids with this person a year ago, but they kids were removed because of domestic violence in the home and then we were placed with the kids.

[bethy724]

It's crazy-my now adopted son was born with no prenatal care, 27 weeks, drug exposed & was 2lbs. After 2 months in the hospital he was placed with me. At a planning meeting I was asked for a report of how he was doing. I reported he saw the pedi, eye specialist, gaining weight getting RSV shots ect... . The parents went ballistic, saying "there is NOTHING wrong with that baby, he does not need to see any doctors, he is fine, why is he going to the MD." Everybody in the rooms sat with their mouths open. These people believe what they are saying, it is their truth, not the actual truth. I just remember, I don't think like them, & try not to try to understand there is no understanding.

[Fostermom22]

I hope that things work out

[buckeyemama]

Yep, yep, yep...I had a similar post awhile back and I still don't get it. Our sibling's bios are hiring a lawyer because kids were "wrongfully taken". Both were born drug positive, both show signs of neglect, dad has a DV history AND they REFUSE to be drug tested or work any of their plan.

[greenrobin]

i was in court at the TPR trial. mom had no-showed. when the sheriff brought her in in cuffs and shackles, she was suspected to be under the influence. the judge ordered a urinalysis on the spot. it popped positive for A, B, and C.

at the end of the trial, the judge asked if she had $$$ for counsel for the appeal then he stopped himself and said, "of course you don't, you spent your money on A, B, and C" to which mom screamed back, "I don't do B!"

sometimes people work very hard at being Cleopatra, queen of denial.

it's even easier for some family members. no matter what happened, those grandparents of the children are still the mommy and daddy to the incarcerated parents. maybe they can't face the truth. maybe they just don't want to know. it's devastating to have to admit that your beloved child has done some pretty bad stuff.

the bottom line is what is best for the kids?

also, the sub-total here has to look like boundaries about what will be said. i know that right now you don't have a whole lot of power, but one day you will. in my state, there is no recognition of grandparents' rights.

i'm going to assume you have a cw. if that's so, then the cw needs to address the fantasy life that the grandparents are having. s/he needs to let them know what is acceptable or not to talk about with the kids. you may have to be the one who pushes this issue, though, if you don't. it's not healthy for the kids to be pushed and pulled like that.

and that brings me to my next thought. if it's going to be a tug of war with their hearts (and i am categorically NOT BLAMING YOU in any way!), then, when you can, you might want to cut off contact until such time that grandma and grandpa can learn to zip it! it's not optimal, but it might be best. or, if that cannot happen, you might want to do only supervised contact. let them know what it acceptable. if they cross that line, the visit is over.

seems like they are setting themselves up for loss of visits. seems like they want to blame you. truth is that any loss will be their own fault. they'll never believe it, though.

i do hope you can get this whole mess resolved. it's no fun to live like this. hugs to you.

[wcurry66]

You should check with us kinship caregivers

Many of us have to deal with this on a regular basis.

Particularly when it comes to addiction, there are family members who are enablers, in denial, and/or who are manipulated by the user

There is no reason to engage in a "you're wrong" argument. There a long history causing the particular dysfunction. It CAN'T be undone by reason.
Typically, you'll lose. its not your job to defend the state.

I say this as one who used to try to tackle this on a regular basis.

Stick with incontrovertable facts. The kids have health problems. That can't be denied. Whether its because the BP did drugs or not doesn't matter. (I know, to us who love the kids, it does.. ). At the end of the day, the prognosis is not effected if people believe in a drug history or don't

Where are the distant relatives in this? Are they in denial? Are the reasonable? Can you work with them directly? Why are the grandparents involved?

As one of the distant relatives, I can promise you.. We feel the pain and will inherit it once the kids move. We are painfully aware of our families dysfunction prior to signing up. We have experience setting up boundaries with the loony fringe of our families

[lifechanges]

I am so sorry you are having to deal with that. We are dealing with that a bit ourselves. We are doing kinship care for my niece and nephew and still 6 months later I get e-mails from my sister completly denying any wrong doing and telling us that the whole reason we're in this situation is becasue of us and the things we've said. SOOOOO NOT TRUE! It's hard to hear that stuff and definitely makes you question whether it could be true or not, human nature I guess. But at the end of the day you have to realize that your just tyring to help and have to take things that are said by others with a grain of salt. Clearly these grandparents know something is not right, and clearly they need some help to come to that realization. Maybe they're voicing their frustrations because they see a little bit of their past in what their own children are doing to their grandchildren? We could prob. guess reasons all day...

I guess what's most sad to me when they don't consider how it's affecting/will affect the children in the situation or even the caregiver for that matter. I just hope you can seperate yourself from what they are saying because it does become soooo draining...they probably wont ever get you're just trying to do what's best.

With that said I hope that things work out for the best...

[going2bparents]

Denial is much simpler than reality.

So first, don't take it personally. Stick to the facts. If they argue with you, simply say thank you or acknowledge what they say. Sorry they feel that way or something. Or gosh that must be tough. (I love those kind of phrases). As long as the SW knows what you have to say, that is all that is truly important. You aren't going to be able to change their minds. So just keep to the facts, recognize they aren't going to accept them, and move on.

As far as them not believing you when you say you will continue contact, I would simply say that this is how you feel, and they can either trust that or not. And then stop defending/explaining to them. Sometimes we can make people not believe us when we try to convince them what we are saying is true, KWIM?

Anyway, it isn't your job to convince them of anything, so don't take on that burden.

[URmysunshine4]

My FD just came into care a few weeks ago, a few days after her 1 st visit with her (addict) mom she came home with lice. My other FD nor anyone else in the house had or has gotten em. So biomom says we gave her lice. Never had lice before. Treated, treated & treated some more, spent hours washing, picking & cleaning, thanks biomom for bringing that into our home. Urghhh, no respect for the person taking better care for your child than what you are able to provide.

[ImpactingLives]

LOL! Were you at our meeting today??? Sounds so similar!

Our meetings always start out like this. they ask on a scale from 0-10, zero meaning birthmom/BD should have no contact with the child, 10 meaning the child should go home right now...where do you think you are at (this is asked 1st to the bios, then to everyone else at the meeting)?

So birthmom and her live-in boyfriend both put her at a 10, they start going on and on about how there are no concerns and he should actually leave the meeting with them!

I wasn't surprised, but it was still a little like, are you kidding me right now???

BD on the other hand was very appropriate and gave himself a 6, acknowledged that he's not safe and appropriate yet and is working on XYZ tangible and verifiable things.

[ladyjubilee]

Originally Posted by BAC4343

Any advice?

I don't have any advice other than what my mother gives me all the time

My situation is a little different in that the family did help the parents understand that the choas had to end. Not necessarily willing to admit just how bad was for the kids, but that the back and forth had to end.


So, I was able to adopt....offered a couple of visits a year, quarterly photos and really hoped we could do more. Sheesh, was I wrong. First visit there was boundary issue (which were understandable and ignorable) but also I could smell alcohol on one of the parents. I told the parents at that meeting I was only comfortable with the 2 a year.....and still naively thought I could do more with family....until I was told I hadn't smelled alcohol but a personal hygiene product. And was offered some parenting tibbits that, well, I foudn irritating. Beyond the fact that if you're body products smell like 3 day binge you may need to change products, I felt a sense of dread for for the rest of my life I'd be dealing with this drama.

Sooo, my mom's advice...basically, suck it up, and hang...or back out completely if I can't live with it. Sounds cold, but once I broke it down to that level I feel like I have more control and don't feel that sense of dread. Maybe boiling it down to basics would work for you....and I know its different since you're still "foster" vs "adoptive" mom----but let's be honest here, you can just say no you won't have the birth family interaction. The county isn't likely to move a child that has been with you for this long just because you won't go out of your way to do what should be a CW reponsibility. So, you do have choices and options.

Now, of course, mom's advice works now, but we've got birthdays coming up and are doing a visit. We'll see how it works then.

[BoysParent]

Denial seems to be the name of the game when it comes to many birth families. When the denial game is over, the blame game starts.

Hang in there. As a somwhat "normal" person, I have also been stunned by the way in which a birth family will completely ignore the obvious. What happened to these children to get removed from their care is never their own fault.