[ca-bigsister]

I don't know about this. It can get into a challenge with some kids always trying to point out that you are doing something wrong. Some kids from some families which never take responsibility for anything; it's always someone else's fault. Our kids need to be safe, not to always be challenging our authority. You are the safety net and need to hold the boundaries. She will be testing you a lot to see if you say what you mean, and honestly, I would not want to be in discussions all day long with a seven year old about what I did wrong so as to deflect from what she did.

I would model the good behavior of not yelling, but honestly, I have yelled when pushed and pushed and pushed. And then I apologized after I calmed down.

So that's probably not one I would do.

But I would be interested in the group's feedback.

[stevenstwin]

A couple of my thoughts about "reward economies". I've done this for years, both with behaviour disordered students and my foster son. I don't believe in it any more. My FS was very manipulative about rewards, always calculating the minimum required to get the 'thing'. They used it at school with him for literally YEARS and it never caused any really improvements in his behaviour, and he never developed any internal motivation of any kind. I think it all has to be natural consequences. The natural consequence of being "good" is having pleasant, happy time with parents - a game, a cuddle, going for a walk, or whatever....but not set out as "if you do X I will do Y". Natural consequences for the misbehaviour depend on the misbehaviour...one of my examples since FS is a teen is that when he refused to obey house rules about keeping the volume down on all his electronic stuff and turning out the lights by 11:00, we cut the electricity to his room for a few days. Another thought I had in reading the above posts is that sometimes we set impossible goals for kids. "if you can get through the whole day without doing anything wrong, you get a reward". For a lot of ADHD kids they are going to blow that in the first 5 minutes, and then there is no reason to try for the rest of the day! Here's an example: My daughter's middle school has the "Renaissance Program". They carry cards with 4 categories - being prepared for class, being on time, etc. Any time they mess up a teacher signs one of those squares. if they get to the end of the MONTH without two signatures, they get to attend a party. Some of the teachers told me it is doing NOTHING for the kids that struggle. Nice reward for the ones that are consistentely "good" anyway, but for the ones it was really intended for, most have two signatures by the end of the first day, and then they are discouraged and feel like there is no point even TRYING for the rest of the month.

Also a thought on imposing consequences - I see a few posts above asking how to "make" a kid do their punishment. With a really tough character you may have to make it something you take away, rather than something they have to do. Absolutely for the first year with FS if I made him do extra chores or whatever, that would be a whole 'nother battle and something he'd just refuse to do - then what do you do? Give them an extra chore for refusing to do their extra chore? I also made it silent a lot of times, so there was nothing to argue about - like the electricity example. If I'd asked him to hand over his electronics instead, it would have been an hour long battle before I got every item from him...but simply turning off the electricity left him nothing to fight WITH. Other examples - he wouldn't clean "his" private bathroom. We locked it and he had to use the shared family bathroom. One time he was raging at me in the car on the way to school - we were only a couple blocks away. I knew if I told him to "get out and walk" he'd just refuse (and he was over 6 feet tall at this point, so I couldn't "make" him) so I got out instead. Locked the doors and walked away. He couldn't very well sit and argue with himself, so he got out and went to school!

[DoYaReallyThink]

We use sentences, taking away TV programs, taking away electronics in general. We take phone time, computer time everything with batteries etc. If they wouldn't do it then they could sit until they will or I would strip them of all conveniences.

[wantonemore]

These have all been great responses! Since I was one of the ones who was interested in the responses, I was thrilled to see so many ideas!

My 6 (almost 7) year old fd has made me realize that I am stronger than I thoguht, and that I can handle more than I ever realized.

Last Thursday I told the SW that I thought I was done, that I felt like I could not possibly handle any more (our could our ds, or could our walls ~ battered by the kicking) They told me that they would move her (and her sister) that day, if I needed... but I told them that an emergency move was not necessary, but to start a plan for another place.

In the mean-time, another sw gave me the book 1-2-3 magic. I was already doing most of the techinques in the book. The book really gave me some great pointers and improved my results a TON! The behavioral improvements have been unbelievable in just a couple of days.

Now, of course, she will be returning home on Wednesday. Go figure! : )

[onhazier]

A question was asked about what if she doesn't write her sentences? Do you hold dinner until sentences are finished?

No. First, let me be clear that we're talking about 15 sentences instead of 100. We use wide-ruled paper and double space the sentences. Can 15 sentences take an hour? You bet they can. I've had nights were 3 sentences take an hour. There are times when R has worked himself up into quite a sob and we send him to his bed until he calms back down. When he does, the sentences are still waiting.

I don't believe in withholding a meal for any reason. If I remember correctly, withholding food is also not allowed as a discipline technique for foster parents in our area. (It may differ where you live, but I'd urge caution.) So, if sentences are not done, they are put on hold until after dinner. This is where other techniques come into play like no TV until the sentences are done.

Good luck.

[dachshunds4you]

Originally Posted by onhazier

A question was asked about what if she doesn't write her sentences? Do you hold dinner until sentences are finished?

No. First, let me be clear that we're talking about 15 sentences instead of 100. We use wide-ruled paper and double space the sentences. Can 15 sentences take an hour? You bet they can. I've had nights were 3 sentences take an hour. There are times when R has worked himself up into quite a sob and we send him to his bed until he calms back down. When he does, the sentences are still waiting.

I don't believe in withholding a meal for any reason. If I remember correctly, withholding food is also not allowed as a discipline technique for foster parents in our area. (It may differ where you live, but I'd urge caution.) So, if sentences are not done, they are put on hold until after dinner. This is where other techniques come into play like no TV until the sentences are done.

Good luck.

Thank you for the response. I didn't make myself clear, but I wouldn't withhold a meal forever, I just wondered at what point do you 'give in' to allow them to eat if family is eating at 6, and it's now 7 and the sentences haven't been written.
So great ideas about the 15 sentences, then eat, or they go to your room until they calm down. I think eventually she would get tired of sitting there doing nothing when she can just write the sentences and join the rest of the family.

Thanks again for the responses!