[EandDmom]

Ok fkids dad has been gone for 2 years. They saw him for the first time last thur. night for 2 hours. Nothing too out of the ordinary has occured except the 3 yr old fs wet the bed which he has not done in ages. I thought well not too bad after all until last night and this started... Fd has said and done some things that have us very concerned in the last 24 hours.
Last night the kids were screaming and yelling in their bedroom after we put them to bed. Nothing out of the ordinary just them yelling and laughing and not quieting down to go to sleep. Dh went in there to tell them to settle down and go to sleep. Fd was standing on her bed with her panties around her ankles and her nightgown pulled up she was just standing there not doing anything other than that as far as we know. As soon as she saw him open the door and walk in she tried to pull them up and lay down as quick as she could. He asked her why she had her panties down and was standing on the bed and she said because the boys were yelling. He had a talk with her about how you don't take your clothes off unless you are changing clothes or taking a bath. He also told her to never let anyone tell her to do that or to let anyone touch her private parts.
Today at my mother in laws house she was playing with a ken and barbie doll. She said I want to see your who who (what we call private parts) and then she had ken put his head up barbie dress. She also took all the clothes off of the dolls but then my MIL told her not to have the dolls naked so she put their clothes back on. After that she had them kissing each other and she also had the daddy doll take his hand and start hitting the mommy doll and then she laughed about it. After lunch they went outside to play. Ds teased her a bit about getting a boyfriend when she is older and she said no I'll have a girlfriend and he said oh ok some girls have girlfriends and she said no cause then she can't go in my who who.
Fd has never said or done anything like this the whole time we have had her with us. We find this very disturbing and are worried that there is more in her past than we realized.
I have emailed her cw, casa (called her but she is in california on vacation waiting for her to call me back) and therapist. She has therapy again tue. night but she also has a visit with mom and dad tomorrow evening. I am thinking seeing dad again has brought memories to the front of her brain and she is acting out trying to work through things. I am thinking of going and getting a ken doll tomorrow so I can watch more of her behavior with barbie and ken and track it for the therapist. I am going to ask the therapist about this tue hopefully she will email me before then.
What else should I be doing? This is new territory for us.
I just don't know what to do. I know what I want to do and that is drive over to her parents house and tell them to stay the h-e-double hockey sticks away from my kids but can't.

[GaViolet]

I Have No Advice As I Have Not Been In Your Situation. I Will Be Keeping You All In My Thoughts And Prayers. I Work At Headstart And Have Seen Cases Of Kids That Acted Out In This Manner But We Already Knew They Had Been Abused. I HOPE SHE HAS JUST SAW THESE THINGS AND REMEMBERING THEM. Keep Us Updated.

[Scrapsathome]

Whatever you do, don't start asking her questions about it or doing anything like offering her a Ken doll and saying, "Show me what daddy did" for instance. This is one of those situations where people can claim that you coached a kid or confused them. But if the therapist is the one who evaluates and reports it for some reason it's looked at differently. I would just document what YOU have personally seen, not what your mom or someone else tells you they saw or heard and inform the therapist and CW.

It's tough, but you have to tread carefully here. And to avoid jumping to conclusions, it IS possible that her dad didn't do anything except drop her off at a babysitter who did something inappropriate. Or maybe she even just walked in and saw things she shouldn't have if her parents weren't concerned about being discreet.

I hope it turns out to be no big deal. And if it helps any, my definitely-not-abused kids have done weird stuff like show people their bottoms and walk around with their shirts over their heads or wear leotards with no panties and didn't understand what's wrong with those behaviors. Kids do weird stuff.

Jess

[EandDmom]

Originally Posted by Scrapsathome

Whatever you do, don't start asking her questions about it or doing anything like offering her a Ken doll and saying, "Show me what daddy did" for instance. This is one of those situations where people can claim that you coached a kid or confused them. But if the therapist is the one who evaluates and reports it for some reason it's looked at differently. I would just document what YOU have personally seen, not what your mom or someone else tells you they saw or heard and inform the therapist and CW.

It's tough, but you have to tread carefully here. And to avoid jumping to conclusions, it IS possible that her dad didn't do anything except drop her off at a babysitter who did something inappropriate. Or maybe she even just walked in and saw things she shouldn't have if her parents weren't concerned about being discreet.

I hope it turns out to be no big deal. And if it helps any, my definitely-not-abused kids have done weird stuff like show people their bottoms and walk around with their shirts over their heads or wear leotards with no panties and didn't understand what's wrong with those behaviors. Kids do weird stuff.

Jess

THANKS!! This is the kind of thing I need to know so I don't mess something up. We do know that daddy hit mommy she has said that herself.

[irelady10]

I agree with the advice about not asking questions, and not buying the Ken doll. I would wait until you speak with her therapist.

I agree this is concerning and alarming behavior. You have to be very careful, though. If something has occurred with her bios, it will need to be very carefully documented in how she discloses.

Defintely document her recent behaviors.

I'm sorry she is going through a hard time.

[Ssumner]

We just went over the section of sexual abuse to children and it sounds like she is definitely remembering things from the past. Probably like you said, seeing her dad has brought up alot of stuff.

Make sure to journal and date everything she is doing in a notebook. I do not think it is a bad idea to buy a barbie and ken doll, but like the other post says, don't provoke her in anyways. Let her play with them on her own and maybe watch her while your are near her.

Keep us posted and good luck

[ranoutofnames]

I'm guessing the visit with bio dad was supervised. After 2yrs you haven't seen any of this type of behavior before.

Ok... so don't take this wrong, but could there be something that has happened around your home to cause this behavior? I don't know anything about your home, the dynamics, or living arrangements... but I do know my 5yr old daughter (actually 4yrs and 10mo) started kissing her dolls passionately after my former 14yr old foster daughter was watching something on TV that had a passionate kiss. When my FFD started saying something about "boyfriends" my 5yr old suddenly developed an imaginary boyfriend.

When summer came my FFD wasn't with me as much the whole behavior of my daughter changed. My FFD lives with me during the week during the school year to ensure she goes to school and keeps up her grades... arrangement with her mom who's having a tough time raising her.

Schools back, she's back, and today my daughter started dancing sexy today to a song like I had never seen her do. I had to sit my 14yr old FFD down and discuss with her that my 5yr old idolizes her, wants to be her, and that her actions and behaviors impact my 5yr old. My FFD is a terrific girl and a very typical 14yr old with appropriate behavior for her age.

When I was 8yrs old I stumbled onto some magazines at my babysitters house that her son had... they had people without clothing on in all kinds of compromising positions and such... use your imagination and then multiple it by 100. It's been over 30yrs but I still remember the images I saw. Kept me from being sexually active for YEARS! (In hindsight, maybe that wasn't so bad)

Anyways, like I said, I don't know you or your family. I hope you aren't insulted... but to be honest if after 2yrs of nothing going on and then suddenly something like you described is going on at your home they will likely question what is going on in your home more so than anything with the bios.

From your posting it sounded like they have been in your home for all 2yrs they have been in custody. Nothing has ever happened before. When I've had 3yr olds that had a history of being sexually mistreated either by being touched or seeing something they shouldn't they act out shortly after being placed, they can't hide it for 2yrs.

Just another angle for you to consider because believe me... I've been a foster parent for enough years to know you will be looked at too.

[Larue]

I just wanted to point out that children who are abused at a very young age may not consciously remember it, though the trauma is stored in their body. Certain events, such as coming face to face again with their abuser years later, or other sights, or even smells, can trigger subconscious memories. Though even then they may not consciously remember the actual abuse, or understand why they’re acting out or experiencing anxiety. Like the other posters suggested, I would document everything that happened and let FD’s therapist handle the situation.

Best wishes, and please let us know how she is doing.

[EandDmom]

Originally Posted by ranoutofnames

I'm guessing the visit with bio dad was supervised. After 2yrs you haven't seen any of this type of behavior before.

Ok... so don't take this wrong, but could there be something that has happened around your home to cause this behavior? I don't know anything about your home, the dynamics, or living arrangements... but I do know my 5yr old daughter (actually 4yrs and 10mo) started kissing her dolls passionately after my former 14yr old foster daughter was watching something on TV that had a passionate kiss. When my FFD started saying something about "boyfriends" my 5yr old suddenly developed an imaginary boyfriend.

When summer came my FFD wasn't with me as much the whole behavior of my daughter changed. My FFD lives with me during the week during the school year to ensure she goes to school and keeps up her grades... arrangement with her mom who's having a tough time raising her.

Schools back, she's back, and today my daughter started dancing sexy today to a song like I had never seen her do. I had to sit my 14yr old FFD down and discuss with her that my 5yr old idolizes her, wants to be her, and that her actions and behaviors impact my 5yr old. My FFD is a terrific girl and a very typical 14yr old with appropriate behavior for her age.

When I was 8yrs old I stumbled onto some magazines at my babysitters house that her son had... they had people without clothing on in all kinds of compromising positions and such... use your imagination and then multiple it by 100. It's been over 30yrs but I still remember the images I saw. Kept me from being sexually active for YEARS! (In hindsight, maybe that wasn't so bad)

Anyways, like I said, I don't know you or your family. I hope you aren't insulted... but to be honest if after 2yrs of nothing going on and then suddenly something like you described is going on at your home they will likely question what is going on in your home more so than anything with the bios.

From your posting it sounded like they have been in your home for all 2yrs they have been in custody. Nothing has ever happened before. When I've had 3yr olds that had a history of being sexually mistreated either by being touched or seeing something they shouldn't they act out shortly after being placed, they can't hide it for 2yrs.

Just another angle for you to consider because believe me... I've been a foster parent for enough years to know you will be looked at too.

Nope I am not insulted at all...i need you all to throw all these what ifs and watch out fors at me. That is what I wanted. They have been with us 14 months. Daddy got arrested and deported before they got taken into care. Their therapist had them playing with a dollhouse and a family of dolls last week. She said she could tell she had at least seen some inappropriate behavior by the way she laid the dolls down in bed and had them kissing each other alot..dh and I never do that at least not when they are awake. The only tv we ever have on when they are up is nick jr. or disney that kind of thing. My dh works nights so he leaves at 2 in the afternoon and doesnt' come home until 2 am. If she stays up later than the boys to have special time with me we always watch either the waltons or dick van dyke reruns. I don't have any teenagers around that do anything you described. My son lives in his room playing video games only comes out for food and drinks. My daughter was born 40 and never acted like a typical teenage girl. As for magazines..I only ever have paula deen ones they were a subscription gift last xmas. I never buy others as I find them a huge waste of money since they are 90% adds and usually about $4 a pop. I'm ubber cheap. She has always been obessed with talking about boyfriends since they arrived but mom has never been married and has lots of boyfriends in and out so just assumed she got that mentality from that lifestyle. In fact, she has a huge crush on one of the male social workers she has seen a few times. She talks about him and asks about him all the time and gets all giggly about him. CW and I always thought it was cute. Now I am wondering. I am very scared of what they are going to question going on in my home especially after reading all the horror stories on here about false accusations. This has me a nervous wreck. Their casa emailed me back. I will feel better when I can talk to their caseworker. I just hope she is working tomorrow but I have a feeling she is out of the office since someone else is supervising the visit tomorrow. Oh and yes the visits with him and mom are still completely supervised. They get 2 hours 3 times a week instead of the 5 days a week we were at. Which thankfully, has helped their behavior. Ok I'm starting to ramble. Thanks for all the advice and keep it coming..I need all the help I can get.

[EandDmom]

Originally Posted by Ssumner

We just went over the section of sexual abuse to children and it sounds like she is definitely remembering things from the past. Probably like you said, seeing her dad has brought up alot of stuff.

Make sure to journal and date everything she is doing in a notebook. I do not think it is a bad idea to buy a barbie and ken doll, but like the other post says, don't provoke her in anyways. Let her play with them on her own and maybe watch her while your are near her.

Keep us posted and good luck

That is exactly what I was thinking about doing..but i'm going to ask the therapist and cw first and see what they say to do.

[EandDmom]

Originally Posted by Scrapsathome

I hope it turns out to be no big deal. And if it helps any, my definitely-not-abused kids have done weird stuff like show people their bottoms and walk around with their shirts over their heads or wear leotards with no panties and didn't understand what's wrong with those behaviors. Kids do weird stuff.

Jess

I am really hoping this is one of those kids do weird things too.

[EandDmom]

Another thing that is bothering me about this is dad was 22 when he got barely 14 year old mom pregnant. He has already proven to be a pedophille by that act alone. My concern is if he went for a child that young whats to say he didn't mess with fd as a 3 year old. I realize a teenager vs a young child is different but still its just not sitting right in my gut..know what I mean?

[Rev320ratjat]

Absolutely agree with those who said to NOT ask questions. And NOT to buy a Ken doll. Anything she tells you in your home is NOT neutral territory as far as court is concerned. You can be dragged into this as well. The more she tells the counselor WITHOUT it going thru you first, the better. If she DOES tell you anything directly, try not to act surprised or anything that would make her feel ashamed. IF she tells you anything, with your head nodding UP and DOWN, say, "I think you should tell this to your therapist, don't you?" The original "outcry" as they call it and how it is handled is given the most weight in court. If this part is "tainted" by what others deem to be coaching, it's like it never happened, kid made it up based on what they were told by adults. You have emailed the CW and therapist, but Monday, CALL the therapist FIRST and get the do/do not list from him/her. Then call the CW and report what HAS happened. Also, if the child is that young, you have to think about them going on the witness stand eventually. If her story changes at times, then she may not be believed. SO the LEAST YOU DO, the better for right now. Give it a chance to unfold at the counselor's office. In our county, after a child has an outcry, they have a special place that is for video-taping the children's stories. How this is handled, and who handles it, is CRUCIAL to the case. You are not an "expert". It also MIGHT be able to be used in court, instead of the child testifying in court, and that's of course assuming that the child WOULD testify in court. I do feel for you, don't know what I'd do other than what I've told you. You are doing the right thing by observing and documenting. I hope you can talk to someone today. Let us know how it went. Praying for you.

[EandDmom]

Originally Posted by Rev320ratjat

Absolutely agree with those who said to NOT ask questions. And NOT to buy a Ken doll. Anything she tells you in your home is NOT neutral territory as far as court is concerned. You can be dragged into this as well. The more she tells the counselor WITHOUT it going thru you first, the better. If she DOES tell you anything directly, try not to act surprised or anything that would make her feel ashamed. IF she tells you anything, with your head nodding UP and DOWN, say, "I think you should tell this to your therapist, don't you?" The original "outcry" as they call it and how it is handled is given the most weight in court. If this part is "tainted" by what others deem to be coaching, it's like it never happened, kid made it up based on what they were told by adults. You have emailed the CW and therapist, but Monday, CALL the therapist FIRST and get the do/do not list from him/her. Then call the CW and report what HAS happened. Also, if the child is that young, you have to think about them going on the witness stand eventually. If her story changes at times, then she may not be believed. SO the LEAST YOU DO, the better for right now. Give it a chance to unfold at the counselor's office. In our county, after a child has an outcry, they have a special place that is for video-taping the children's stories. How this is handled, and who handles it, is CRUCIAL to the case. You are not an "expert". It also MIGHT be able to be used in court, instead of the child testifying in court, and that's of course assuming that the child WOULD testify in court. I do feel for you, don't know what I'd do other than what I've told you. You are doing the right thing by observing and documenting. I hope you can talk to someone today. Let us know how it went. Praying for you.

Thanks!! I have a call in to her therapist and a call into her cw..their casa called me this morning from california said she will be home tomorrow night. I am very worried about messing this up and them saying you coached her she hasn't said anything else and I am NOT going to bring it up. Thanks to you all!!

[EandDmom]

Ok I have talked to the therapist, the casa and the supervisor for the cw as their cw is out of the office today. Casa is going to request a dr. visit to check for anything in the past that may have been done to her sexually. Therapist said we did everything correct and to just listen and document anything said that it could be as some of you have said anything from she saw a movie in the past to something has happened. Cw supervisor said they will have a meeting today with all everyone and try to get ground work layed out for this. I'll feel much better when I have talked to their actual cw. Thanks again to all your advice I really appreciate it.