[lakin11]

Posted this in the open adoption forum, but now cross posting here.


Where to start?

We just finalized the adoption of our kids in June. We had them for 3 1/2 yrs from time of placement until adoption.

Bio mom abandoned the kids, did not complete services, never attended any visits. For the first 2 yrs of the case, she was not at all involved in their case. Until....another child was removed to unrelated circumstances. Then she decided she wanted to get the kids back. Long complicated story, some of you may know, but we'd filed for adoption, it was contested by the bio father (also abandoned the kids). For 2 1/2 years we "battled" in court.

Bio mom was not given a chance to complete services again, nor she was granted visitation. She eventually signed consents, and later got the other sibling back.

We did agree to an open adoption with her, because for all her many mistakes, she does love the kids and realizes how much she's screwed up. In the agreement, we set 2 visits per year, the first being 4 months after the adoption.

Well we are approaching that timeline. We've had a good relationship with bio mom in the past year and even though we have not allowed the physical visitation, the kids have seen pictures, read letters from her, etc. We have their 1/2 brothers over often and they are very close to them.

The kids were 2, 3, and 4 at the time of removal and are now 6, 7, and 8. They really have no memory of her, did not recognize her in pictures even. For a long time, they did not want to see her. She left them alone a lot, and with strangers, barely raised them herself.

Just trying to figure out what kind of ground rules to set up and how we should set up the visit. DH is thinking something like Chuck E Cheese where they are able to see her, but don't have to just 'sit' there. I think it is going to be too emotional for her to be in such a public place.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[o2b30again]

I agree with your DH thoughts. Keep it somewhere where the children can "escape" if they feel the need. Chucky Cheese, the park, McDonalds with a playland etc. Your kids emotional needs come before whether or not she is comfortable. If need be she can always excuse herself to the restroom. I personally don't know if I would allow visits after 4yrs not having them at this age. Just my 2 cents. Each family has to do what they feel best for the kids.

[RobinKay]

Congratulations on your lovely family!

I will be very blunt here-it is not my intention to offend anyone-

For visits, please consider only how the children will feel. If biomom is uncomfortable she can leave.

My suggestion is somewhere the children can do something, like a park. They can come back and forth to you from the playground, and interact with biomom if THEY want to--she can observe them and enjoy watching them.

I'd stay away from fast food restaurants as they are a bit too confined-and video game places are too noisy.

I imagine the visit will be mostly talking between you and biomom, while she watches the girls.

I also suggest you bring biomom some pics, and be sure to take pics that day, but don't insist your daughters pose with biomom.

If biomom is inappropriate, like telling your daughters to call her mom, please feel free to leave.

This first visit will set expectations for the future. It's easier to lighten up than be more restrictive the next time.

I wish you the best, but be prepared to do what you think is best for your children.

[EandDmom]

Originally Posted by lakin11

Posted this in the open adoption forum, but now cross posting here.


Where to start?

We just finalized the adoption of our kids in June. We had them for 3 1/2 yrs from time of placement until adoption.

Bio mom abandoned the kids, did not complete services, never attended any visits. For the first 2 yrs of the case, she was not at all involved in their case. Until....another child was removed to unrelated circumstances. Then she decided she wanted to get the kids back. Long complicated story, some of you may know, but we'd filed for adoption, it was contested by the bio father (also abandoned the kids). For 2 1/2 years we "battled" in court.

Bio mom was not given a chance to complete services again, nor she was granted visitation. She eventually signed consents, and later got the other sibling back.

We did agree to an open adoption with her, because for all her many mistakes, she does love the kids and realizes how much she's screwed up. In the agreement, we set 2 visits per year, the first being 4 months after the adoption.

Well we are approaching that timeline. We've had a good relationship with bio mom in the past year and even though we have not allowed the physical visitation, the kids have seen pictures, read letters from her, etc. We have their 1/2 brothers over often and they are very close to them.

The kids were 2, 3, and 4 at the time of removal and are now 6, 7, and 8. They really have no memory of her, did not recognize her in pictures even. For a long time, they did not want to see her. She left them alone a lot, and with strangers, barely raised them herself.

Just trying to figure out what kind of ground rules to set up and how we should set up the visit. DH is thinking something like Chuck E Cheese where they are able to see her, but don't have to just 'sit' there. I think it is going to be too emotional for her to be in such a public place.

Any advice would be appreciated.

I think dh is right..give them someplace they don't have to just be trapped with her they can get up and move away if they want to.
I think the move out of the country is a great idea long term but I sure would miss hanging out with you and all those adorable kids.

[Joy2566]

We recently saw birth mother after 4 years. My kids are quite a bit older (11, 13, and 17), but they had had limitted contact in the 4 years. We went to a water park, birth mom and I sat at the picnic table and the kids played in the water. They really didn't spend much time with her, and were able to do it on their own terms. The kids don't have much of a relationship with her, but were glad to have seen her and to know that she is okay. Only the 17 yo wants to continue seeing her.

[sunshinemomma]

We are kind of going through the same thing with BDad. We have had our daughter's half sister for visits and return her to BDad. My DD11 hasn't seen him in almost 5 yrs.
We have been doing alot of new visits with extended birthfamily and I love the park/playgrounds for that. Like the other person said it gives the kids the chance to run and play and not be too confined. It will give the birth Mom the time to chat with you and for her to start to learn to interact with them on this new ground. I would save the Chucky Cheese visit for a little bit down the road, once she has shown herself to be appropriate and once she has had a chance to become a little more accustomed to seeing/interacting with them at the age they are at now.
I too agree that the kids emotional health is priority. If they have a therapist this may be a great time for the therapist to talk with them about some of the feelings that may come up. We have been doing that with our daughter and the therapist talked with her about the feelings of panic or fear that may come up as well as the security issue - that just because he is now doing well and is healthy that she won't be changing homes and going back to him.
We may in fact have the first visit with birthdad at her office just so DD can talk with her afterwards.

My husband and I just met with birthDad for the first time by ourselves. It gave us a chance to talk with him and gauge his reactions by ourselves without our daughter. It also gave us all time to share stories, for him to be honest and open, to share his pain and for us to share our support all without our daughter there. I really feel that it has set us up well for the time that she will meet him again. For us that will be whenever she is ready but we have the basis to build on.

Good Luck, it really sounds like to are trying to do this in a way that is positive for all.

SunshineMomma

[CaddoRose]

Before you have a visit, figure out what the boundaries are, make sure BioMom knows them ahead of time and what the consequences are for ignoring the rules. Your rules should include what name they will call her, what can and can not be discussed with them, length of visit, types of gifts she can/ can not bring and anything else you feel could get out of hand or any issues that need to be set out ahead of time.

[dakotabluebaby]

I have to agree with the others.

I saw my B mom after 4 1/2 years when I was a child and remember it very clearly. We had the meeting in the Mall, my parents were very close by and rules were set up by them (didn't know until later) before the meeting, such as don't force her to hug you, don't promise anything ect...

I didn't see her again for another 3 years until my great grandmother died (she was the only one in that family that still considered us family) because she left us jewelry.

[EandDmom]

Originally Posted by CaddoRose

Before you have a visit, figure out what the boundaries are, make sure BioMom knows them ahead of time and what the consequences are for ignoring the rules. Your rules should include what name they will call her, what can and can not be discussed with them, length of visit, types of gifts she can/ can not bring and anything else you feel could get out of hand or any issues that need to be set out ahead of time.

OH, those are very good.

[ocracoke]

I think you already know my opinion but here it is again.

Your DH is right -- but don't tell him I said that. Have it be a place that focuses on something the kids can do. You want this to be as stress free for them as possible. That may add some stress for her but she is the adult. Let her know that she should not refer to herself as mom in front of them. They know she is biomom. They will call her whatever they are comfortable with but she should refer to herself as J. I know she always refers to herself as mom when communicating with you but let her know it can not happen in front of the kids.Ask her to excuse herself from the kids if she is getting too emotional. It is not the time or place to put that kind of emotion on kids. Let her know that she is not to make any promises to the kids about gifts or visits or anything. She is to check with you first. Let her know that at least for this first visit it is not a time to break down and get emotional about the situation that lead to the adoption. And let her know that if you feel the kids are getting stressed that you will end the visit early. It is all about the kids. It is not about her. I know that since you see the younger sibs regularly that stepping on toes will make it difficult but I would leave as little gray area as possible for the first visit.

JMO,
Samantha

[Rev320ratjat]

One good thing about it being at a park where the kids can run, and you and she can sit and catch up, is that the kids themselves can watch HER from afar. They don't know much about her at this point, and from just pics & letters, neither do you. It would be nice to be able to encourage her in her own life, see if she has any goals (focus on her future, not her past, can't change the past). Talk about what the kids' interests are so that she'll have a clue, and then after this visit, the kids will really be looking to YOU to see if she is trustworthy, etc. You will set the foundation for any future contact (visits, letters, etc). Of course, the kids' emotional needs come first, but I would try to set the stage for future visits. You go looking for negative, you'll find it. You go looking for one glimmer of hope in this woman's life, you'll find it. It basically shows that you can take the high road and your kids will love you for it.

[Suziebearhugs]

I just wanted to wish you all luck and also say that I agree with what everyone posted, you should make a list of boundaries and give them to her and discuss it prior to the visit.

[excited2adoptsoon]

Not sure if you are concerned about safety or security, but someone had a great recommendation for me. Our local public libraries have a security guard at the front door. We are considering taking the lil' one to the free public story time and bio parent can sit nearby and then possible read some books with the child later.

My second choice is a mall that I know has some security guards too.

Personally parks scare me...I feel like they are too open and easy for someone to run off with the child. But I am paranoid!

[Suziebearhugs]

We also held visits at the library classes as well. It was nice. They have a planned reading time, activity and usually a treat as well.

It's a lot quieter and more personal than the craziness of chuck-e-cheese.

But if this is a regular activity you do with the kids and you already have relationships with other parents and kids there, you may want to think about how this will affect the kids and everyone involved, introducing the bio-mom to the picture.

[lakin11]

While I'm sure the thoughts of running off w/ the kids has definitely passed through her mind many times, I don't think she's stupid enough to try. She knows it would lead to instantly loosing the 2 boys and her baby she's expecting. So I don't feel it is a HUGE threat at this point.

We are still working on the writing out the ground rules. It is on her to set up the visit, so we are going to see when she approaches us about it. Then we'll give her the 'rules'.

Still debating on the location.

Ocracoke:

Your DH is right -- but don't tell him I said that. Have it be a place that focuses on something the kids can do. You want this to be as stress free for them as possible. That may add some stress for her but she is the adult. Let her know that she should not refer to herself as mom in front of them. They know she is biomom. They will call her whatever they are comfortable with but she should refer to herself as J. I know she always refers to herself as mom when communicating with you but let her know it can not happen in front of the kids.Ask her to excuse herself from the kids if she is getting too emotional. It is not the time or place to put that kind of emotion on kids. Let her know that she is not to make any promises to the kids about gifts or visits or anything. She is to check with you first. Let her know that at least for this first visit it is not a time to break down and get emotional about the situation that lead to the adoption. And let her know that if you feel the kids are getting stressed that you will end the visit early. It is all about the kids. It is not about her. I know that since you see the younger sibs regularly that stepping on toes will make it difficult but I would leave as little gray area as possible for the first visit.


Too bad, already told him. Had to haha! We've already come to terms that she's going to use the boys as plots in this game. We know that as hard as it will be, if we have to step away from them, we will.

She's not going to react well to referring to herself as J. I think the kids will probably still call her Mommy J just out of habit. We have tried to prepare them that while she'll always be their first mom, she's going to be more like a family friend now. They are more than fine with that, but she's likely never going to come to terms with that.

Part of conversation with her is going to include that this first year it may only be the two visits per the agreement. She cannot expect any more than that given the amount of time it has been since they've seen her. It might happen, but it might not. Hoping she doesn't throw a over it. I'm sure she enjoys her free weekends too much to push us too far.

Thanks all for the advice. I'm not worried about her and her issues...I just worry that her reactions will stress the kids out. I've tried not to anticipate their reactions, but we foresee the oldest (almost 9) having the hardest time. He's also one who internalizes a lot. The middle, is almost 8, and has always held the most resentment toward her. The youngest, 6, has no memory and even after showing her pictures of her multiple times, has to be reminded of who she is. I think she'll blow the whole thing off.