[bluebird38]

What do you do for an almost 4 year old very stubborn child who refuses to pick a single toy up? Do you take toys away?

Thanks

[fostapeepz]

Yup. With all of our kids, at 4 years old, we had that problem. I told them that they had 1 hour (or whatever time frame you want to give) to get their room picked up, or I was going to clean it for them. No threat - I said it very calmly. All three of them did the same thing, dilly dallied around just to see whether I was serious or not. I gave them one warning that x amount of time was left (just because none of them were able to tell time). When the time was up, I took a trashbag and asked the kids to leave the room (just like the pencils down rule at test taking). Got the same reaction from all 3, too. Lots of screaming, bawling, yelling, promises etc.... I bagged up anything I found on the floor and it was stored in my room. With our son, that was 3 trashbags full - which gave me a clue to part of our problem. Too many toys! The kids had to earn their favorite toys back, and as they got the best back I would go through the rest and weed out anything that could either be put away for another time, or just gotten rid of. It was a great way to teach a lesson, and do some spring cleaning!

[DreamingAzure]

Absolutely take away the toys! What the PP stated is a great way to go about it Works wonders with stubborn children...although be prepared for the trantrum but DON'T GIVE IN!

[Sunnyblu]

Our FS would refuse and say "I can't". We found out it's because he was overwhelmed and at 4, especially if there's any attention issues it can be too much (I have MY days where it's overwhelming to pick up my toys . We try to avoid power struggles so we flip it around and make a game of it. I will ask him to tell me 1 kind of things is on the floor, so he'll say "trains", then I'll say "how fast can "Joe" pick up his trains?" and he'll run off and pick them up and comes back, I praise him and we do it for the next thing. There's only 3-4 major groups and it teaches them sequencing. Also, we don't end up with everything in one pile or drawer, he puts them where they go instead of shoving everything into the toybox.

[CRAZY_WOMAN]

I used to put all the toys the kids didn't pick up in a plastic bag and throw them in the garage.Of course they never saw there toys again.I think they forgot about them.But atleast they know toys go away if they don't clean there mess,But the kids where usely over 6.I think I always threw there toys in toy box at a younger age and never even thought about it.

[ca-bigsister]

If he refused to pick up one toy that you asked him to pick it up, then I would say, "If you don't pick it up in the next two minutes, then I will put it in the garage and you will have to pick up 5 toys to earn it back." Then I would give him two minutes to do it, or just pick up the toy and let him cry.

Then I'd give him the next day to see if he picked up his toys. If not, put them away, too. But there could be other reasons, too.

It could be that he is trying to control his surroundings so this may be how he is acting out. I don't know, but is there some way he can feel more control in his room? Picking out a certain colored bedding? Asking him where he wants to put his toy chest? Maybe picking out a poster at the toy store he that he likes and then putting it up together in his room? Some way for him to feel more control? That is what it feels like to me. I could be wrong - I'm not a psychologist but if there has been very little order or control in his life maybe this is how he is taking control, by saying no to you. If possible, could you paint his room or at least a wall a color he likes? Putting up his name on the wall? Taking a family portrait together and then putting it up in the living room?

Re: other poster - about cleaning up rooms at 3 or 4 -
Some kids are capable of "cleaning up their rooms" at 3. Some can't. They can't put that many sequences in order.

But if you give a specific instruction - let's pick up all of the red toys and put them here in the red basket, most will comply. Then tell them to put all of the dirty clothes in the hamper. And have them run back. Then say smooth the bed the way mommy does. Then put all of the blue toys here.

After a while, they will get it but honestly even when I told my 13 year old FD to clean her room, she would sit in there and just sort of be overwhelmed. Then I would say strip your bed and put it in the washing machine. She'd do that.

Sort your dirty clothes to white and coloreds. She'd do that.

Get the furniture polish and dust the wood, but not the glass.

Use the glass cleaner on the glass and mirror.

I would praise her for each step and see that she did it. Her self-esteem increased.

Sort your DVDs and put the DvD back with the cover.

Vacuum your room. Good - look, praise.

Put the vacuum back but wrap the cord around it first.

Great, look, praise.

Put your clean clothes back in the dresser.

Then I'd tell her to clean the bathroom.

Step by step. Clean the inside of the toilet with the Comet and swish with the toilet brush. Use a paper towel and cleaner to clean the bottom and the top, showing her.

Then clean the shower with this and this. Don't wear your street shoes because the dirt will come off and it will be dirty again.

Good news - after a while, they know how to do it all on their own.

She's almost 18 now and will clean the bathroom really well on her own, do her laundry, do the dishes, etc. I think she'll be fine on her own in the college dorms. But yes in the beginning, it took a long time. If you start with them at three, they'll be magnificent!

Yes, this was a lot in the beginning but many kids, especially kids with multiple placements, have trouble sequencing, and when you give them a step, then praise them, through repetition they'll be fine.

But many children cognitively at three can't clean a room. Like if I asked, what do you want to wear today, some could choose. But if I ask, do you want to wear the red shirt or the blue shirt, they can tell me which one.

So I would break it down for them to one step at a time and see if that worked.

Or you can always try a little sticker or m&m after each step, then it's fun and a game rather than a chore.

[fostapeepz]

We did the step by step for a couple of years prior to the garbage bag method with our son. The kids were all at the stage they 'got it'. They just didn't want to do it. It took one time with the garbage bag method for son to 'remember' how to clean his room, and twice for the girls. If I tell them to pick up their room and they hesitate, I just ask them if they'd like me to do it - and they hustle. So for us - it has worked.

[Newshyde]

With my 4yo picking up toys, or putting anything away was something he just couldn't do. The thought of it put fear in his veins and he would fall into a crying heap on the ground. It was that way with everything I asked him to do. I later found out that his mom did EVERYTHING for him. She didn't let him feed himself until he was 3, he had never picked up a spoon. He was so scared of failing that he would even try.
So, we started really small. I would put the box for the toys in front of us and we would take turns, first I would put in a toy and then he would, and it would go that way until the room was picked up.
I also would put on "cleaning music" which was always top 40 dance music and we would clean. I would put him in charge of certain toys while I put away clean clothes or stripped the beds or whatever I had to do, that way we are both cleaning the room at the same time, dancing, singing whatever. Now, all I have to do is put on the cleaning music and I don't have to tell him, he automatically knows what has to be done.
Also, head start helped a lot with the cleaning because everyone had to do it. Once he saw that other kids could and did clean it gave him a lot more confidence to do it.

I really would suggest what ca-bigsister said, and follow that. Give one task at a time, follow it up with praise and then give another task. I would really test your 4yo's ability to clean before the discipline and taking away toys.
My 4yo loved the throwing away idea, because it meant that I was picking up the toys instead of him. I have a garbage bag in the garage from the one time I did it, that he's never ever thought about. It had no affect on him at all.

I don't take away toys, but I do put him in time out if he doesn't get going on cleaning up right away or tries to play instead of clean. Now, it's not a big issue, but looking back I remember being so frustrated about it. At four I think they need to be taught the skills to do what we ask and be given the confidence to know that they can do it.
Good luck, I know its a frustrating thing.

[greenrobin]

We have just a little twist on the pick up thing.

Yep, we take toys away as well. Restitution must be made to get stuff back. Restitution is whatever I want it to be...I'm evil like that! And after that first cleaning with the trash bag, most kids really will believe you mean it the next time.

Our twist is actually kind of a game. It only works after you have their attention. I use a timer with a buzz or ring sound. I set it to a small amount of time. Then we have a round of Cleaning Blitz. You just pick stuff up in a major hurry, running wildly through the house until the buzzer goes off. Then you stop. Enough. Whatever's left, well, it's left. Knowing that the Blitz is short seems to get a whole lot done in a very little time. We use 15 minutes max. And we do it again another day, trying to beat our best clean.

Another thing we do is to reinforce some other learning while cleaning. Jay picks up all things that run on power, Bubba gets everything plastic and Flower Girl has to find all orange things. Change the category according to whatever's on the floor or whatever your children understand. This is surprisingly effective. Perhaps it's because they're mentally categorizing things and eliminating more than they are picking up. Maybe it just gives them a focus. Who cares? The room still gets clean.

And in either case, no toys are lost.

I guess it's the redirection approach to clean up time.

[teachermomof3]

We always said you clean it up or I will and if I do, the toys are gone. With my son, we only had to take the toys to the garage to be earned back one time and he never refused to clean up again. With my daughter, however, she said "I have other toys, its okay to take them." That meant we moved to plan B. We put each type of toy in a clear plastic tub, that she cannot open by herself. She asks for help to open the tub she wants and can't ask for another one until the first one is cleaned up. Somedays she will still not want to clean up, so I will do it and take the whole tub. This has been more effective with her because she has three tubs of toys, so she quickly sees that the supply of toys to play with is not unlimited.

[DoYaReallyThink]

We always tell the kiddos take out what you want to play with and when they want to switch gears and play with something else they need to put back the toys they already had out. This worked like a charm when my boys were growing up and works now. The older one "forgets" and then has ONCE refused to pick up. Those that were not picked up she lost. They were kept away for a week and then brought back in to the mix.

[AmahMama]

I have some high shelves in the kids' room and when I 'pick up' the favs that were out are placed on one of the shelves - they can't reach it themselves - and have to be earned back. I also 'cycle' toys. I have different large 'bins' of toys and only have 1 (or 2 depending on how many kids we have) at a time. They don't have that much to pick up and they also have 'different' toys every couple of weeks. Sometimes kids who haven't had a lot of things - just the sheer enormity of 'picking all of this up' is beyond their comprehension. It is a huge project . . but... that said... some children refuse to test boundarys and those boundarys must be consistant. See what the child is capapble of - and go from there. You have a good handle on things - or you wouldn't have them LOL!!

[In_limbo_for_now]

We have a 14 yr old boy at church who suffers from Asperger's. If his mother tells him to clean his room it won't work. Too much for him to handle. This kids is very bright but he gets overwhelmed and cannot tell where to start. If she gives him insturctions like: All of the books need to be on the shelves and all of the clothes need to be put where they belong, He can handle it. His list may seem daunting at a glance but he can check things off as he goes. I am thinking of making a cleaning up check list for our kiddos when they come. If everyone has a checklist it won't seem strange for anyone and if it helps someone then it is worth it. If you make a list that covers everything the kiddos can check off the things that don't need to be done as well as those that do. You can even put things like pet the dog on the list but you may need a time limit for somethings.

[shaslove]

I am actually like some of the kids...its hard for me to know where to start when cleaning.

I like the ideas here for kids! They are awesome!

[EandDmom]

Our kids must clean up one toy before getting out something else. This helps with not having too much out and it being overwhelming. I always have to remind them through out the day but it helps. It doesn't mean they only get one toy exactly they can have out all the blocks or all the tools or all the babies and stuff but they can't just switch from the blocks to the tool box without first cleaning all the blocks. They also must clean everything up before every meal and before we leave the house and before bedtime. Having lots of small pick ups is so much easier than one huge one at the end of the day. Singing the clean up song seems to help alot too. If none of this works and they still are ignoring me I set a time for 15 min. and if there are any toys left out after it goes off they get sent to bed. There are 3 of them so that is usually plenty of time. They always seem to get it done with plenty of time to spare.