[realfoodmom]

We are about to do a pre-placement visit with a 16 year old girl who has been diagnosed with ODD. I've researched it and I'm still not sure exactly what it is. The SW told me it is kind of like a catch-all diagnoses when a child needs therapy and so needs to be "labeled" with something. What have been your experiences with teenagers with this diagnoses? I just want to make sure my two small children will be safe before we finalize anything.
Thanks.

[Lorraine123]

Oppositional Defiant Disorder
All kids have times of opposition, but a child with ODD has a constant state of opposition and defiance. They are unable to comply with any requests from authority and usually react with intense anger. A child with true ODD would actually die before giving in. I would research it thoroughly if I were you. I, personally, would not take in an older ODD child if I had young one in the house. Maybe talk with the psychiastrist that gave the diagnosis.

[ranoutofnames]

I once had a child placed that was later diagnosed ODD. Angry outbursts were the norm, and it could be over anything. We walked on egg shells around this kid and the only reason we hung on for 2yrs with him is because he was 3yrs old when we got him. He was later diagnosed after RU when he was 8yrs old.

I'll never forget the day he pulled out the metal plates at the bottom of my vertical blinds and started throwing them at everyone... all because he was told "no" to something he wanted.

I'd definitely talk to the psychiatrist, read the file VERY carefully, talk to past foster parents of the child, and if she's been unsuccessful to stay in a regular (non-therapuetic) foster home for more than 6 months and has been in group homes instead because she can't manage in foster homes.... run fast the other way.

[jphollen]

I'd be very careful thinking that it could be just a catch all diagnosis like you sw said. Usually in my experience kids that have this diagnosis have tons of problems with authority just as the diagnosis implies. We have a ten year old with it now. My experience with ODD kids (this is my third) is the haven't been told no very often and aren't about to deal with limits quietly. Maybe they were neglected and had to care for themselves, maybe there caregivers/parents/whoever let them run wild because it was easier.

If this girl truly is ODD and you want the placement you need services in place. You need to be prepared for structure in the extreme form. If you are inconsistent just once it can set you back...way back.

[rachelandbrad]

I was diagnosed with odd when I was about 17, the therapist or who ever said "You have ODD" I said " No I do not" he said "yes you do, do you even know what it means?" I said "No and I don't need to I know that I don't have that." This was a man that I had know for about 10 minutes. It was very tough on my mom, I was very very very angry all the time for no apperent reason. I remember the day that I finaly was able to step out of it and it was like all the sudden I just wasn't angry anymore. I still have issues with it but it isn't as extreme as when I was a kid. Sometime's I feel like a monster just takes control of me and no matter what I do I'm mad and no one can change it, It's really hard on my husband when this happen's because no matter what he say's or does I am very angry, and usually it is over the stupidist littlest thing. I feel for children that truely have this it really feels like you have no control and you are just angry. So if you take this placement keep in mind your going to have an angry kid for no reason. Good luck!

Rachel
ps I am not an expert at all but if you have any questions I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge based mostly off of my personal experience.

[Lorraine123]

Also - its rare that ODD is the only diagnosis. Well, maybe the only diagnosis, but not the only disorder.

[jphollen]

Originally Posted by Lorraine123

Also - its rare that ODD is the only diagnosis. Well, maybe the only diagnosis, but not the only disorder.

My fkids therapist says this too. She says in her experience it's normally Co-morbid with ADHD, but not always of course.

[mommytoEli]

i personally would be more concerned about what symptoms she has that got her the dx in the first place. is she just argumentative and disobedient, or does she go out of her way to hurt things and people to prove her point? my dd is not odd, although somedays i wonder lol...but she is RAD. what i find interesting though is how different RAD kids can be from one another. some RAD kids are more easily managed than others, some interact with people better than others, it all just depends on the individual. so i would want to know in this case what behaviors SHE has been experiencing in the last 12 months and then determine if i thought it was a safe placement for the children already in my home. my dd is NOT safe around little children without an adult present. she can be not so nice to them. but i have had to learn to watch her behaviors and figure out when she is in a hurting mood and when she is not. it is difficult, and not very fair to the younger kids. but i can honestly say, due to our diligence, that no one has been hurt in a long time here, but it is hard work.

[reesegayla]

ODD is exactly what it sounds like. Kids will say the exact opposite of what you said just to argue, and they will defy you by doing the exact opposite of what you told them too. Sometimes these kids can be violent so be careful and if ODD is left untreated it can develop into conduct disorder which YOU DON"T WANT. I had a psych minor in college and our professor basically said that the majority of serious offender juvinille delinquents have conduct disorder. (sorry I am a terrible speller!)

[Nevada Jen]

I think you want to look into what the behaviors are that got the diagnosises. I am have experience with two kids who had the diagnosis. My sister (an older adoptee) and a former kid client. Neither actually had the disease but when they were tested they were in a bad place in their lives. Both are perfectly fine and normal now. Its a real popular choice with mental health professionals who have not spent enough time with someone come up with an accurate diagnosis. There are strategies to parent around it that can be pretty effective but if she really truely does have it, I would think long and hard about whether this is something you want to take on. Recognize that you will be taking on a constant (as in 24 hours a day, 7 days a week) battle that probably is not winnable in the traditional sense of the word. You will need to be prepared to call it sucess if you simply get through it and still maintain a glimmer of hope that you can turn things around.

[stevenstwin]

I agree with the others in looking more closely at the actualy BEHAVIOURS. I'd also like to point out that the more severe form is called "Conduct Disorder". These are the kids who WANT to antagonize everyone and deliberately break rules. THAT is where you get the ones that are constantly in trouble with the law, may physically threaten you, set fires etc.) A lot - and I mean a LOT - of the ODD kids I've worked with have a "negative first reaction" but do actually comply. Example with the student that became my son "Austin. You can't sit there. Please move to the back of the row." "No way! It's not fair! I won't move and you can't make me!" (while this is coming out of his mouth, he was picking up his books and walking to the back of the row). To this day, what works for both me and all his teachers is to ask him to do something, and then just walk away and give him some space. If you stand there looking expectant, he WILL argue. If he has a moment to organize himself, he'll just do it. His therapist thinks a lot of "ODD" foster kids are actually displaying the hyper-vigilance of PTSD - immediately respond negatively to everything to protect yourself. I can tell you that once I stopped listening to the words and just focused on the actions, I realized he was really VERY compliant and rule-obeying. Mind you, he IS angry a lot (but by the age of 16 dealt with this by going into his room and listening to music instead of raging at the family),and does tend to think that everyone is out to get him. He'll take offense at totally innocent things, it has become a family joke and even he'll laugh to say "Why are you glaring at me?" because he used to accuse everyone of that if they barely glanced his direction.

[greenrobin]

My oldest son was diagnosed with ODD along with ADHD and bipolar disorder. I had him myself. He was never abused, neglected, exposed in utero--nothing. His conditions are his all alone. But, I have a brother who I'm guessing is VERY much like him, so there may be some genetic stuff going on.

On a good day, we didn't have to contain him for more than 45 minutes. On a bad day, it went on and on and on. No hospital around here seemed to know what to do. It was bad.

He had rages over nothing--people looking at him, someone asking him to do a chore, wearing a seat belt, not reading his mind when he was thinking at us (I am not making that up!), and because he could not have his way. We did a lot of deciding about what was important to fight about--cookies for breakfast or a 2 hour rage? Doing the homework or broken windows? It was really bad.

Then we found a psychopharmacologist who knew all about this stuff and medicated him appropriately. He's nearly 21 now and he's functioning better. He still shuts down when he gets angry, still gets unreasonably angry, still has issues of understanding why people are so upset with him because he really has only fuzzy memories of his own actions. It scares me, that part. My son is a great young man. I'd choose him for a friend. He has all kinds of wonderful qualities--he's generous, outgoing, funny, talented, handsome, loyal--everything you'd want in a son. But without medication, he's not always in control of himself.

I'd really, really watch out for a sw who says ODD is a catch all. The one they used to use was intermittent explosive disorder--that was a catch all! ODD is a real issue. And it's really hard to live with. S/he should know better.

If you have younger kids, please think this over. ODD can be like anger without inhibitions. It doesn't care what or who gets hurt or broken. The child does, but her/his brain is hijacked. Please be cautious.

[dakotabluebaby]

Saying ODD is just a catch all is like saying someone with Schizophrenia just has a few imaginary friends and an active imagination.


It is possible she has been misdiagnosed, but if she has not then ODD is a Hefty disorder, which has not been found to always be linked to environment.

If I were you I would not bring a child who was older than you others in to your home with this diagnosis. Everything is a battle with ODD, even something as simple as tying shoes or walking with the family. Its a really tough thing, if its correctly diagnosed.

I would be very wary of the SW. she maybe right in that this girl was slapped with a label, but ODD is serious.

[realfoodmom]

From what I understand the diagnosis is a year or so old. She also has been diagnosed with GAD and an adjustment disorder.
The SW said he was going to get an updated diagnosis and meet with the FC before we set up the pre-placement. Thanks for all your advice. I'm still unsure what to do. My main priority is that my children are safe, but I don't want to turn down this referral if the diagnosis is incorrect.

[jphollen]

realfoodmom,

Good luck no matter what you decide.

The sixteen year old we had with ODD, was a handful (but then again I think the dx in her case was right on). After having her removed (she brought drugs in my house among a huge amount of other things and preexisting legal issues she had) she went on to RTC, Detention, Jail, more RTC and failed independent living.

The younger kids that I have had with it were somewhat easier to manage but their personalities and histories of abuse were different too. Every kid is different and only you will know if you can handle it and it's workable. Like I said before if you do decide to take her insist on having services in place first (that way you aren't waiting on consents for weeks to start therapy and that type of thing). Having the right tools is very helpful.



Jen