[smooshiemonster]

This is a very emotional topic for me but I will make every attempt to remain calm while relaying this info to you all. I am seeking help from anyone who has had to deal with social services in a situation like the one I'm about to present.

First let me explain my family situation. My parents had four natural children (my 3 siblings and me). When we became teens they decided that they would love to help children through foster care and successfully became a foster come through the county. Eventually after a few years of fostering my parents adopted my brother Matthew and a sibling group that we had been fostering. I should mention that for the adopted children my parents receive what is called AAP funding from the state every month to help pay for their living expenses etc. and they are on state supported medical care (medi-cal) Everything went smoothly for many years, sure there were developmental delays and behavior issues but our family took those in stride. Let me jump ahead now about 10 years. Matthew has been diagnosed with a variety of mental health issues including Schizophrenia and hyperactivity. He has beeen expelled from school and has already been in trouble with the local police for vandalism and other petty crime. My parents end up divorcing and Matthew stays with my father. He throws a lit firecracker at my sister on purpose on the 4th of July. A week before christmas he starts the house on fire and we spend christmas in a hotel room while repairs are being made. Matthew continues to get into trouble and refuses to conform to any rules despite the cocktail of drugs and therapy he has been put on. My father feels overwhelmed and so my mother agrees to take Matthew. My mother has matthew for a couple years dealing with the same behavior and medication/therapy with no results. Matthew is 14 years old and continues to get into trouble with the law including breaking an entry. My adopted sister is talking to my mom one night and reveals that Matthew has been coming in her room at night and attempting to molest her!! My mother is shocked and angry and doesn't know what to do. She calls social services for help and they basically tell her that they can't do anything unless he hurts somebody. So my mom gets irate and tells them that she wants him OUT of the house and she refuses to have a sexual predator living in her home with her daughters. FINALLY the social services take Matthew on a temporary basis into a group home setting with the intention of re-uniting him with my mother. At this point my mother is not interested in reunification because she will never feel safe having Matthew in her home with my other adopted siblings. Matthew is put into a foster home who is looking to adopt. He spends a few months there and the foster parents express a desire to adopt him!! This was a god send for my mom. My mom goes to court as instructed and surrenders her parental rights for Matthew so that he is able to be adopted. The adoption falls through because Matthew was involved with the Sodomy/ molestation of another foster child in their home. Matthew ends up back in a group home setting where he remains today. Ok now that I have summarized the hell that we have been through with Matthew I can tell you the real meat of my problem.

My mother is working and has 3 of my adopted siblings. She is no longer receiving AAP for Matthew because she surrendered her parental rights. The state sends her a letter saying they are giong to garnish her wages for CHILD SUPPORT!! They also said she is required to put Matthew on her medical coverage. My mom told them that she is barely making ends meet as it is and cannot afford to pay for medical coverage and child support ( my adopted siblings were never on medical coverage from my parents they have always been on state coverage but for some reason now that my mother surrendered her rights she is responsible to provide this???) The social worker said that she is required by law to provide this even if it's up to 50 percent of her income!! My mom cannot survive with this so she is quitting her job and moving in with family with my other adopted siblings. That is her only option at this point. This is so backwards... they are asking my mom to pay child support for a child that she has never supported the state has always payed AAP to support matthew and the state has always had him on state supported medical care. I just don't understand how the state can do this to my mother for trying to help a child that ended up being sociopathic and a sexual predator. They treat her like she is a birth parent that is dumping a child on the state but that is far from the truth. It is sooo frustrating and overwhelming and is ruining my mothers life. Can anybody help or does anybody have info about a similar situation???? I don't know what to do. I will tell you this , no one in my family will EVER consider fos-adopt again and anyone I talk to about foster care I warn them. It is the biggest mistake my family has ever made and has caused many nervous break downs and jaded some of the kindest people I know in this world.

Thanks for listening.

Suzanne

[bethy724]

All I can write is I am sorry your family is going thru this - I hope your mom had legal advise before signing her rights over for Matthew (get in contact w/ that attorney ) I am suprised she wasn't charged w/ abandoning him - I have read that happens when an adoptive parent signs a child over - usually to get them medical help they can't afford. I can only suggest she seek out an attorney maybe from Legal Aid. Your family is in my prayers.

Please don't trash fostering or adopting - I understand why you are but there are thousands of children that need a home - they are not all molestors - advise they ask about a childs history (maybe it would have helped your family decide not to adopt Matthew & not molest in the next family he went to) & read the file completly - I know in TX we are required to read the entire case file - that gives us the same info CPS has on the child - many fost-adopt parents don't go thru w/ the adoption after reading the entire history.

[Lorraine123]

If your mom's parental rights were truly terminated, then she has nothing to do with your brother's situation. She cannot add him to her insurance because he is no longer her son. She needs to find out if her rights were fully terminated. If not, yes, she can be charged child support. When you adopt, you swear in court that you will take care of that child just as if he/she were your biological child and that you will support them financially. If she was TPRed, that changed, but if not, she is still legally responsible. She needs to find that out.

[Hadley2]

Please tell me she has a lawyer. Please tell me that she filed CHINS on Matthew long ago. If her rights were terminated, so were her responsibilities. She may owe from before the termination, but I don't see how they can dun her for after. Surely a competent family law attorney with state experience could sort this out for her.

[Hadley2]

P.S. If she only transferred legal custody to the state, then her rights and duties would remain intact. Giving up legal custody is not the same thing as terminating rights. Good luck!

[smooshiemonster]

Originally Posted by Hadley2

Please tell me she has a lawyer. Please tell me that she filed CHINS on Matthew long ago. If her rights were terminated, so were her responsibilities. She may owe from before the termination, but I don't see how they can dun her for after. Surely a competent family law attorney with state experience could sort this out for her.

She hired a Lawyer that supposedly specialized in family law the first time the state started coming after her for child support which was before she surrendered her parental rights. He ended up doing nothing for her but charging her money and telling her what she already knew. She ended up finding through her own research that AAP would pay for the child support since she was still considered financially responsible for Matthew. (when she took matthew to social services they stopped AAP which was a error on their part, they should never have stopped AAP funding unless parental rights were terminated or surrendered which they had not been at this point).

I should specify that my mother's parental rights were not "terminated". The state continued to try to give Matthew back to her and she continued to refuse siting the safety of her adopted daughters that were living in the home. You should have heard the social workers trying to make my mother feel guilty. It's amazing how the social workers seemed to care so much about getting Matthew back to my mom but they never seemed to address the problem of him molesting my sisters. They didn't seem to care about my sister's safety and psychological health. Now my mother has not had a legal counsel in at least 1 year mainly because of financial reasons and I think she is just exhausted. Everytime we think things are looking like their turning around it ends up getting worse.

Anyway I'm sorry I'm going off on a tangent here... My mother actually went to court and 'Surrendered' her parental rights. This is where the courts are getting her, they keep telling her since she "surrendered" her rights that she is still responsible for him financially. If she would have been aware of this she would have just allowed the state to "terminate" her rights!!! The only reason she surrendered them was because Matthew's foster family was eager to adopt him and the first step in that process was for my mom to surrender her parental rights. (sigh).

The thing that really gets me is when my parents adopted matthew I realize that they agree to be responsible for him financially etc. but realistically at least in California they never were. They always received funding from the state that paid for Matthew every month of his life, when my mom surrendered her rights the state stopped that funding. Which they should, but why would they then expect her to PAY money to the state?? That makes no sense to me. She was never paying money to take care of matthew, by them discontinuing AAP that should have taken care of any child support as well. Everytime she talks to someone at social services she gets a different answer and now she has received a court order to garnish wages and add matthew to her medical. Which again when Matthew was with our family my parents never paid for his medical care, the state did, so why now that he is not here would it by my mom's responsibility?

I am not familiar with CHINS, what exactly is it? No one my mother has ever spoken to has mentioned CHINS so I would really appreciate any info ! Thank you so much for all your responses. If anything it's nice to know that someone is listening.

~Suzanne

[vegaschristina]

CHINS is CHild In Need of Supervision I believe.

I don't have any answers, but I do wish you luck.

[mrsred]

smooshiemonster .....They treat her like she is a birth parent that is dumping a child on the state but that is far from the truth. .....Suzanne

No, not really - the state never went after the biological families of my adopted children to pay anything toward their care.

No advice, just prayers.

[RavenSong]

It sounds to me that Matthew was either adjudicated a dependent of the juvenile court under Code Section 300 of California's Welfare and Institutions Code or as a ward of the juvenile court under Code Section 601 (beyond control). If she filed a PINS (Persons in Need of Supervision, known as CHINS in other states) petition with the court, it would fall under Code Section 601. In either case, your mother would be financially responsible for child support. Have you actually seen the copy of the "surrender" papers? What does it say in legalese? There is a huge difference between signing a child over to the state of California versus signing voluntary relinquishment papers. In the first scenario, the parent is only signing custody of the child over to the state, and as such, is absolutely responsible for child support. Parents who sign PINS petitions with juvenile courts in California are almost always held liable for child support.

[EandDmom]

Originally Posted by vegaschristina

CHINS is CHild In Need of Supervision I believe.

I don't have any answers, but I do wish you luck.

don't know if it varies by state but here it is Child In Need of Service..basically child taken into state custody.

[Lorraine123]

Terms are different in evey state, but it sounds like your mom still retains her parental rights. It could be that the level of care has become so costly that is beyond what the state can cover. In which case, your mother would be responsible.

[lucyjoy]

It might help to know if your brother's AAP was title IV-E or not. She needs a good lawyer that can look at her surrender paperwork. Also, if they were not suppose to stop the AAP, then she may be entitled to back pay which she can then use for support. It's stupid. And if her rights were terminated, surrendered or not, she can't put him on her health insurance. Unless the court has ordered the payment of support, I don't believe they can garnish her wages.
Might check with NACAC on the subsidy part of the issue. Again, I'd start with a good lawyer.

[SarahBethsMommy]

This whole thing makes me sad. I don't think we all know enough about the situation to say what should/would/could happen.

Can you tell us what exactly the paperwork says that your mother signed when she surrendered her rights? That could help with advise.

On a tangent... I have a good friend whose family dealt with a similar situation except it was biological children. Her son was molesting her daughter. They had him detained in a mental health facility for treatment, they did not surrender rights to him. If we as foster to adopt parents swear to treat this child as we would our own biological child, what right do we have to just throw them back at the system when things get bad?

[lucyjoy]

Not all states will allow you to put a child into a treatment center without giving up your rights. Also, the RTC my son was in was $311 a day. Without state payment, no way could I have paid that.

Why is the father not being held responsible for support of this child?

[myangels]

I know in our kids case Mom and dad TPR to the Court and they still have to pay cs until they are adopted. They have to pay it monthly to the state.