[SarahBethsMommy]

Originally Posted by lucyjoy

Not all states will allow you to put a child into a treatment center without giving up your rights. Also, the RTC my son was in was $311 a day. Without state payment, no way could I have paid that.

Why is the father not being held responsible for support of this child?

Seriously? To get your child help, you have to give them up? That's just crazy to me! I could understand giving guardianship, but relinquishing your rights? That's nuts!! What if they have to go to the hospital for a month, do you relinquish rights then too?

[ranoutofnames]

To the OP: On the Special Needs board there was a VERY similar situation where the older adopted son was sexually molesting the younger adopted daughter. They went through hell and back. If I remember correctly he was in treatment and maybe incarcerated. They were wanting child support and at some point they told the parents they had to take him back BUT if they took him back then CPS would have stepped in and took their daughter because they were allowing a known perpetrator access to their minor daughter. Because he wasn't yet 18yrs old they were stuck between a rock and a hard place. The poster did repost several months later on the same thread where she let everyone know the final outcome.

You might post on that board to see if anyone over there remembers who the poster of that thread was so you can search for the thread and read through it.

[hunterfamily]

Even if a mother signs surrenders this does not mean her rights have been terminated. What about the father? Did he sign surrenders too? If he did, then it is up to a judge to sign the order that terminated both parents rights, not just one. Very few times do you see one parent TPR's. Parents can sign surrenders, but judges do not have to accept them. As long as she has rights, she is responsible for him. It does not matter where money came from in the past. When you adopt, in the eyes of the law, you might as well have given birth to the child.

[Hadley2]

sarahbethsmommy is right; none of us knows. Probably every person who administers the laws and rules in CA or any other state has a different take on what they mean...

That said, as I understand it, CHINS in our state is kind of the flip side of taking a child into protective custody--it is used when the CHILD is dangerous and "in need of services"--too young to put in prison, too young to commit to a mental health institution for criminals. Usually end up in RTC until age 16 or 18, then a determination is made. If there is no conviction for a crime,...they often get discharged. That is another story for another thread. Anyway, it is the route for this situation here, but the child has to be proven VERY dangerous--if social services is content to put Matthew in a group home (who is he molesting there, I wonder?), then that part might be hard to prove. The only other route is to have ample dx and rx for RTC, then plead guilty to neglect (that is, neglecting to pay $120K/year for RTC because Medicaid does not pay for RTC here), getting a finding of "true" to that, and losing your rights and all the consequences that fall out of that. Sometimes families have to go this right even if the child is CHINS. I know a woman who was forced to do just that a few years ago. The school district now pays $300K/yr for her son's really special RTC. Heaven help us all when he turns 18.

But that is our state, not yours.

My only thought is that perhaps your mother can file for a fair hearing with social services or file an appeal or hearing before a judge so that she can bring what she has--including ample documentation of Mattew's issues, psychiatric reports, dx, and rx for RTC, even a medical narrative if she can pay for one--and explain the problem. It seems as if the subsidy should be reinstated, payable to the state--kind of silly, out of one pocket and into another, but there you are. Anyway, without a court hearing, my fear would be that she will simply go round and round with administrators forever, piling up who knows what kind of penalties or missing deadlines for a fair hearing or an appeal and really be stuck.

Good luck, it sounds horrible.

[Hadley2]

oooo, one more thought, perhaps more useful: If your mother surrendered her rights, then Matthew is a "household of one"--an indigent household of one and eligible for Medicaid, TANFF (as he is an impoverished family of one), etc., so there may be a path to financial relief there, also.

[stevenstwin]

The whole situation is tragic and should make people think twice about adopting a really high behavioural needs child - especially one that is RAD, because they all have the potential to end up needing a secured facility. Tying the hands of those that do adopt, will only result in hardship for them, and other families choosing long term foster care instead. It seems to me that doesn't serve anyone's needs. This is honestly one of the many reasons we didn't adopt A - my husband in particular feared that if he accelerated his behaviours and became truly unmanageable we'd have no options and would have to bankrupt ourselves to pay for his care.

[smooshiemonster]

Yes, I agree completely. I understand why some of you cannot comprehend surrendering your parental rights on any child adopted or natural. I would have felt the same way until I met Matthew. I hope that you never have to experience everything that my parents/ our family did. I would not wish that on anybody. My mom lives a distance away from me but I have asked her if I can look over her surrender paperwork next time I see her. I tried to talk to her about the possibility of hiring a lawyer to try to figure things out but she was very honest with me and said that she can't. She feels like she is going to have a nervous breakdown everytime she talks to social services and she doesn't think she could handle the stress of it all. She has high blood pressure now and has started taking medication.

I remeber when we first had gotten Matthew as a foster child. He was abandoned with a homeless man and his mother never came back for him, he was already 2 years old. Obviously there was some serious damage done psychologically in the 2 years he was with his birth mother and who knows what he was exposed to in utero. He was the closest thing I've ever seen to a wild human. By that I don't mean aggressive , just non responsive. It's been 13 years and I can still visualize the way he moved around a room exploring things and making litltle noises but never approaching people and never making eye contact. He never recovered from the damage his birth mother did to him. When I say he is a sociopath I'm not exaggerating. He honestly has no emotional connection to anybody in my family and we are all he has ever known. My family truly believed that we could help him, we whole heartedly believed that it wasn't too late. I know now we were wrong.

My dad's parental rights were terminated by the state but my mom was hoping to work things out and keep Matthew living in her home. She tried several different medications and therapists but once the molestation charges came out then she had to make a choice. Funny how things come back to you , I remember social services actually had the nerve to suggest that my sister was lying about the molestation charges. Can you believe that?

I know I probably didn't address everyone's questions and I don't have much info about the paperwork but I'll try to find out and repost. I really appreciate everybody's time and support. Thank you all so much, I'll definitely keep you posted.

Suzanne

[hkolln]

Originally Posted by smooshiemonster

My mother actually went to court and 'Surrendered' her parental rights. This is where the courts are getting her, they keep telling her since she "surrendered" her rights that she is still responsible for him financially.

This makes no sense! If that were true all the bioparents that voluntarily surrendered would then still be responsible for their children. And my daughters biomom would be paying still! I'm not a lawyer but this doesn't seem right...and I'd get a lawyer whom specializes in this type of stuff for legal advice.

[AngelArrow]

I dont want to say what is right or wrong , and I dont think that is in anyones position to do so, but she needs to get someone that knows the law. TANF is based on gross-income and family-members in the houshold least here in Az. Did all this was explained to her before she signed anything? If the state is the legal-guardian they are responsible for treatment and other coverage unless otherwise stated at the Tpr hearing. Well, good luck !!!!!!!!!!!

[stevenstwin]

Originally Posted by hkolln

This makes no sense! If that were true all the bioparents that voluntarily surrendered would then still be responsible for their children. And my daughters biomom would be paying still! I'm not a lawyer but this doesn't seem right...and I'd get a lawyer whom specializes in this type of stuff for legal advice.

No, I've seen it happen before, Helen. Judges don't have to accept a full surrender, and they don't automatically abdicate parents of financial responsibility. In fact, they tend to be REALLY tough on people surrendering adopted children! I'm not saying this is right, but it definitely happens. They don't want people to just pick and choose and adopt and then decide they don't want the child anymore. Which I HAVE heard of happening, but does NOT in any way serve the needs of those that have severely disturbed children. There is another family on the special needs board with the exact same situation - paying thousands of dollars in care for a adopted child they've surrendered.

[stevenstwin]

Originally Posted by smooshiemonster

Yes, I agree completely. I understand why some of you cannot comprehend surrendering your parental rights on any child adopted or natural.

I don't think ANYONE here is saying that! Believe me, we know better than most about RAD, and disruptions. The sad but indisputable fact is that some children can NOT live in a family centre, EVER and I think the vast majority of us here "get" that - so please don't feel any of us is judging her decision. The ISSUE is whether she still has to legally pay for his care, and it is possible that is the legal fact, even if it does seem very unfair.

[lucyjoy]

I understand perfectly why your mother did what she did. I tried to surrender rights to a dangerous child and couldn't but was given alternatives that weren't given to your mother.

Tell her she HAS to get a lawyer. I also understand feeling like you are so paralyzed by all the trauma and feeling like you're going to lose it. I've been there. She needs to STOP talking to social services and START talking to a lawyer. My friend got out of a $30,000 bill the state tried to attach to her on a dangerous child she couldn't possibly have kept at home. If your mom does nothing, they will continue to bully and harass her.
She needs someone who knows the law and that can understand what she signed and figure out what she can do now.

Is there anyway you can make arrangements to go with her?

The other thing, even when a parent has no choice, they often feel like they've failed and are treated as if no one else has ever had these issues. Be sure your mom knows that this happens ALOT and that it isn't her fault. Sometimes knowing you aren't alone in this hell makes it easier to get up and keep moving.

[Lorraine123]

Believe me, we understand. As you already know, social services will lie to get what they want, so your mother needs to STOP talking to them. Get a lawyer and tell them to contact the lawyer. Yes, it's paralyzing. Stress can cause you to shut down. Can you find a lawyer for her? Take her surrender papers and talk with them and see what to do next. Doing nothing is not an option.

[bigtalker]

I used to work for CPS. The department of child support enforcement told me, much to my suprise, that a parent is still responsible for child support if they surrender their rights until that child is adopted into another family. It did not make any sense to me, but they were going after some of my former clients. The clients were then calling me to ask why this was happening. I don't know if it is the same in every state. I would still suggest that your mom get really good legal advise. Maybe there is something that could be done.