[wife2grumpy]

we have had J since 6/06 and S since she was born. J is 3 and S is 1t months old. J has autism spectrum disorder, aspergers, schizophrenic tendencies, and other physiological/mental disorders. My little man is a handful and a half. I love him and his sister as my own. This is not why I am mad, I am mad that my adoption was denied!! When we first wanted custody of J we were told no because of reasons I rather not say, but it is not bad. I wouldn't take no for an answer, and fought my rearend off for custody. The final determination straight from the top notch was, I have never in my entire career in this field seen someone fight so hard for a child the is not theirs. Custody Granted! ok moving along sorry its kinda long. J was terminated, and we started adoption, next the state is calling me to come get baby sister from hospital, or they would take J to place them together.
ok no biggie, there are 3 adults, J and 3 big dogs in the 889 sq foot house, whats one more!! So we moved. 17 months later, we are still in the process of adoption. The state asks DH to elaborate on 2 mishaps, the written explanation was accepted by the state, and consent to adopt was granted, the chief referee refused to sign off, and the Judge denied the adoption without talking to us. I am content to say the case file was not read. Not only are we kinship, I have had both children their entire lives. (I actually have had J since he was 5 months old, but the relative took him back, and it took 2 months for the state to take him, after being left alone, a broken arm and a bite foot by an adult). The adoption worker wrote a letter to the courts so we can be heard. The case workers for the children say they think this is the best placement for the children, and so does the GAL, which hasn't returned my phone calls, and has never set foot in my house or laid eye on the baby, and seen J 2 times.
Now the county said the case workers and the top notch will get together and have a meeting and decide hat is best for an emotionally and mentally impaired 3 year old and a 17 month old that the case worker seen for the first time a few days before Christmas. After that meeting they will have a TDM. However no one can tell me when or if this will take place before court.
Seeing the state signed the consent to adopt can the judge over rule the state? and how? They are telling me that there is nothing in the file that says we were given custody, the ran criminal records, finger printing, we took classes, and they have been paying me, so where do they think he was? also I called to change addresses on the Medicaid and they said that I am not on the file as guardian or having custody. Called the case workers, but had to leave messages.
help me out folks what do I do, cuz I ain't going down with out a long hard fight . Both children have been terminated. I feel violated by the state, here are 2 kids, love them, we will let you adopt them then slap us in he face, and knock us down! DH and I are the only ones who ever fought for him and got him in all kinds of special needs programs/ respite/cls. We have done nothing but loved loved loved then get told its an inappropriate placement. Where has the state been for 3 years? not paying attention?
Also I am sorry I haven't been here in a million years, but my hands are very full. my day starts at 5 and don't end till 8 or 9 pm, then I need to unwind from a very hectic long hard day. but in the end, its worth every single moment, just exhausting at times.

wife2grumpy

[fredalina]

Wow, i am so sorry you're going through this, and in particular sorry for the kids to leave the only home they've ever really known.

Have you thought about hiring an attorney?

[Hadley2]

I'm sorry it sounds as if you've had a confusing and frustrating journey.

It does not sound as if you ever had legal custody or guardianship. If you did, the state would probably not be bothering to talk to you, pay you, provide services, or terminate the parents' rights and it certainly would not have the authority to consent to adopt--the parents, whose rights would not have been terminated, would have that right only.

It does sound as if you have been the kinship/foster placement for all this time. The state did terminate the parents' rights, presumably after they failed to complete a case plan and exhausted their rights. The state did free the children for adoption and did give its consent for you to adopt them.

I don't know who you mean by the "chief referee," but, yes, any judge anytime can disagree with social services and deny a petition before him/her.

I don't think I read in your post that the judge made any orders regarding a change in placement of the children so I'm thinking they are still with you on a kinship/foster basis?

You should be able to appeal but you should do so with your own lawyer (not DSS's lawyer) representing you. If the children are still with you, you should be able to file again, too, after a certain amount of time probably set in state law.

It could be the state was not paying attention for three years but this judge is. You do not say what the "mishaps" were, but it is possible that this judge views them as deal breakers. Again, your own attorney would be the most helpful in figuring this out.

At the least, get yourself a copy of the judge's opinion/orders (from the court clerk, you may have to pay a fee although as a party to the filing, you should get a copy anyway in the mail). This would at least tell you what objections the judge has.

FWIW, that's a passle of dx for a 3 year old. I didn't think they would diagnose any child as schizophrenic, or any child that young as Aspberger's--how could they even tell Aspberger's at that age when the primary presentation is social? Unless you have records in writing from qualified professionals, I would be very careful in discussing such assessments--if social services thinks you are reaching or guilding the lily, it could complicate your situation.

I hope all works out well for the children. Good luck.

[jeni-b]

Wow, that is a huge slap in the face and so sad for the kids. I'm so sorry.

I think I might help with a little understanding for the Medicaid at least. Technically the state has custody and guardianship of the child - you have to give them the change of address and they change it with Medicaid. We as foster parents don't have that kind of authorization.

i hope this all works out

[fredalina]

Originally Posted by Hadley2

FWIW, that's a passle of dx for a 3 year old. I didn't think they would diagnose any child as schizophrenic, or any child that young as Aspberger's--how could they even tell Aspberger's at that age when the primary presentation is social? Unless you have records in writing from qualified professionals, I would be very careful in discussing such assessments--if social services thinks you are reaching or guilding the lily, it could complicate your situation.

It is definitely possible to diagnose with Asperger's at 3 years of age or younger. However, Asperger's *is* an autism spectrum disorder, so some of those dx are redundant.

i'm pretty sure (not positive) that schizophrenia has onset after age 7, so not sure a dx at age 3 makes sense (HealthyPlace.com Mental Health Communities.

[Hadley2]

It is also possible that, if the child's dx are indeed that severe and extreme, that the judge thinks it would be in the child's best interest--and, incidentally, yours as well--for the child to be in long-term foster care with you so that the state will remain fully responsible for the child's medical and mental health needs. That might be a good thing in the long run.

[CaddoRose]

I would recommend at least talking with a lawyer who knows the laws in your state.

[wife2grumpy]

yes the parents rights have been terminated and the Children were placed in my care, When S was born, they called me to pick her up from the hospital. Both parents failed to comply with any of the parent plan. the "chief referee," is where the adoption agency sends the consent to adopt and case file to, to set up a final adoption date, he refused to sign it and took it to a judge and she denied the adoption without talking to us. no orders were placed to remove the children as of yet. Thursday the case workers had a meeting amongst them selves and it is determined that the children are in the best possible placement. They want the case closed and the children adopted. yet like I aid the judge denied it. I have called attys and they want 2500 down to start, and it goes up from there, I don't have that kind of money. I wish I did because I have been told I have a good case and should win, but need to be represented. The children were placed with me after I fought for placement because my dh has a dwi and a 10 year old domestic that does not involve me it was prior to our relationship, and the statue of limitations on this has exceed. NONE of this was hid from them, they did do a criminal record check and finger printing, we also went to the foster care classes, we were told kinship placement doesn't have to be licensed.
J indeed has aspbergers/autism spectrum disorder, and schizophrenic tendencies with other mental disorders, he is aggressive and mean to his sister, pets, and children in his class. He has gotten to the point of hitting and kicking my husband and I. He has been seen numerous times by a neurologist. This coming week he will getting physic care because someone finally will see him.
J ans S both have been given consent to adopt by the state. J's subsidy indicates he will have medicaid.
J's aggressiveness sent his sister to er last night, he pushed he so hard she flew into the corner of the door, I am grateful the GAL was here. My deepest fear is they will take him and he will end up hurt by someone, because they do not understand he has mental disorders.
Why is it the Judge can over rule the state? Would I be safe to go to court with out a lawyer? I am so confused with all of this. I have had them all their lives and this is CRUEL!

[EZ2Luv]

WOW I have no words of wisdom but I do want to offer you ((HUGS)).
This so how the state I live in works. The right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. Grrr!!

I hope and pray that the little ones get to be adopted by you where they are loved and cared for. Seriously this judge must be on crack not to grant the adoption. I means what does he see as an alternative? What about "the best interest of the children"? I get so mad when I read situations like this.

EZ

[wife2grumpy]

it gets better, the judge dening the adoption signed all the paper work ar these little refreere hearings..
I have them!

[Hadley2]

I think you have a heartbreaking situation, but that it goes beyond what you're looking at. I don't think, really, your problem is that a judge denied a petition for adoption when there was no approved consent--he had to, yes? I think the problem, really, is that this boy may well not be a good candidate for adoption, for his own sake as well as that of those who lives, schools, and plays with.

So, it sounds as if the "chief referee"--still a bit murky there, I think you mean the local adoption board disapproved social service's consent for adoption, not your petition to adopt. There is a difference--it sounds as if the social services' choice of the adoption goal was denied, not you, personally, as adoptive parents.

There could be a lot of reasons having nothing to do with you for that. They could think that long-term foster care--with the legal/services/safety resources and protections that go along with that--is a more appropriate goal for a mentally disturbed and dangerous child who may well be headed for RTC or similar placement. If his problems are as severe as you say, you may not be able to keep him in your home without endangering the other children--and him, in a way, if he is not able to control his dangerous impulses in a family environment. Medicaid won't necessarily cover everything he needs--it does not cover RTC or schooling for the ED in our state. If you adopted him and faced that, depending on your state, you could be between a rock and a hard place--if you keep him, you are charged with endangerment and could be tried or sued for any crimes he commits, if you try to get the state to take him to provide RTC, you are charged with abandonment. A friend of mine here had to plead guilty to neglect--for neglecting to provide six figures per year for RTC to put her son in an appropriate environment where he would not hurt himself or others--and relinquish her parental rights to get him the services she could not and was "guilty" of not providing for him. She really had to do this, also, to avoid getting caught up in legal actions around an arson he committed--keeping him in her home knowing he was dangerous meant she was culpable when he set something in the neighborhood on fire. So, in your case, if this child is still in the guardianship of the state if a problem like that arises, those types of things wouldn't happen and the child could be declared chins w/o you paying a criminal penalty or going into debt to avoid it. You won't have as much say over what happens to him as if you were his parent, but the resources would, presumably, be there for him when he needs them.

If the denial does involve you, the dwi and dv may be weighing against you heavily, IDK. Different judges, states, and local practices look at that differently. For some, it is a lifelong strike, for others, no biggie. If the dv involved children in any way, even if they were only present in the home ("only" not meant to minimize the trauma to them, it is severe, believe me), that could be it.

But, as I said, it sounds more as if the consent was denied first, so if you petitioned, that would be automatically denied, too. See if you can get a copy of the written opinion to find out. Then I would think about what you want to do with an open mind. It could be that adoption is not in the child's best interest and not the best outcome for your family, especially if he is a danger to his sister. Honestly, if he is sending a little sister to the er at this age with these known issues, especially the meanness to pets, I would think really hard about whether he should be in a family placement with other children at all. His sister, at least, deserves a safe home I think. It may not be possible to keep her safe from him. If not, I think he should go. I know, this is the heartbreaker I meant at the top. I am so sorry. I know you love them both, but I think you need to look at it from the point of view of protecting them, not just wanting them. It sounds as if he may need some heavy duty psychiatric care in a structured, secure environment.

Anyway, I would talk to the cw about it and find out what really happened and why before crusading too hard for an outcome that might lead to sorrow for everyone. Blessings and good luck.

[Hadley2]

Sorry to be so long-winded. As far as the adoption board and judge not rubber-stamping social services's plan, that could be a very good thing.

Social services of course wants to cut the strings and close the case. That gets them out of any obligation, $, time, and effort, to a child who appears to have the potential of sucking a lot of all of that out of the agency. The adoption board and judge may have the best interest more at heart than social services does. Just be aware that $ can be a big part of social services' agenda--they are not always all about the children.

In addition to talking with the cw, please talk to an impartial professional like the child's psychiatrist (sure he has one?) as to his likely future needs and the long-term appropriateness of his placement with your family if he deteriorates. Be sure the psychiatrist understands that you are asking about what kinds of treatment and placement he will need and what the costs of those things will be.

Then, if it sounds as if you need the resources of the state behind you to make this work, you might want to talk to the cw about a long-term foster care goal. Some of the folks on the special needs boards can tell you a lot more about this option than I can.

[wife2grumpy]

I recieved my copy of the adoption subsidy, and the concent to adopt from the state. sorry i am confused!
The case workers and adoption board had a meeting and they did say that the best possible placement is with us, and removing them would be detramental to the children. I dug out a bunch of paper work, and it all says a 5 year or less dv felony, it wasn't a felony!
I really appriciate all your help and yesterday sent me seriously thinking. I also was given the consent to adopt S 2 days ago, even tho the judge is questioning J's .
you are not long winded my friend, you are trying to help me out, because I think you have more experence then me, and kind enough to help me, by looking at thinks in a different direction.

[EandDmom]

Hadley2 I thought the samething but had no idea how to write it out. Thanks for expressing it for me.

[wife2grumpy]

no body has disapproved this adoption except the judge. The case workers, the adoption team, the GAL, the adoption agency and the state have all agreed that we should adopt the kids. I have the signed consent form from the state. The only issue we are having is the judge. she won't sign off, even tho everyone says yes.