[EAGLE6]

Another bump in the road today in trying to get our 2 month old nephew into our home. He was placed is fc for severe physical abuse and neglect.

We're trying to get a kinship placement and then get our regular foster home certification. The reason we were going kinship initially was to try to expedite the process. According to the CW they can get a home kinship certified in 2-3 wks, but traditional foster takes 6-9 months.

Anyhow, the CW has put our application on hold and cancelled our homestudy appt. She said the maternal grandparents filed for custody, and she wanted to know point-blank if we were serious about taking the baby why didn't we file for custody???

My nephews mother lives w/ her parents and per the CW that very well might drag out the maternal grandparents case for custody or get them denied. They were ironically turned down as the foster family for the baby because one of his fractured femurs likely occured at their home.

I just cannot believe they have the babies best interest at heart, but are trying to force us into going this route in order to get him in our home. What about all the stuff they put out there that they'd rather place w/ relatives if possible.......all seems like a front to me.

The CW said and I quote "we want to take it really slow w/ this case and see how it pans out. If someone wanted to apply for custody it would be preferable. Therefore, we're going to just sit on your application for right now, and see what happens the next few months". She then went on to say she'll revisit the idea again after the holidays, but of course if we wanted to go for custody........

My husband and I make a decent but modest living. I could afford the babies needs, however I do not have thousands and thousands of dollars up front to hire an attorney to fight this for us.

I grow more and more frustrated everyday w/ this, and feel pretty much hopeless. I honestly do not know where to turn next. I should mention this was the dept supervisor that told us all this. Ironically they called us again at the end of the day and left a message, but we were not home. Who know's what else now......

[Boulderbabe]

I think this sounds like a maneuver for DSS to leave you holding the bag. A lawyer is costly, but seriously, a thousand dollars right now might save you tens of thousands down the road.

I'm sorry, but it really, really does sound like it's time to lawyer up.

One other idea: ask her who the baby's guardian ad litem is, and contact that person. Make sure that he or she knows you're trying to get a foster placement...

[mommytoEli]

i'm sorry...that is totally frustrating. keep fighting!!!!

[Hadley2]

"We're not filing for custody because we expect your agency to obey state and federal law with regard to due process in a foster care custody case as well as foster care placement and permanency goals. By law, it is not in the baby's best interest to close an unresolved foster case and dump the state's open custody case on a private citizen. According to NY state law, it is in the baby's best interest to be placed with family, if possible. It is possible, and you are denying the baby his rights. We believe the court will agree."

You can cite the statutes I gave you earlier and any others you've found that support the argument. Also check into federal law, US Code, Title 42, Section 675.

I forget whether or not you said the child had a GAL; I think there was not.

The person you spoke with may be a supervisor, but that means she is probably not the director of the county agency. If she is, go one up and be very clear that you feel this person has threatened to return the childto his mother--essentially threatening him with bodily harm--unless you allow the state to dump its open custody case on you. (Placing the child in the mother's home, where she lives, is returning him to her.) You could put that up front in the letter and emphasize the bypass the court part--judges don't like to be bypassed! That is child endangerment and coercion in one fell swoop.

I haven't seen many family members on these boards with this problem from NY. It is usually VA, where this notion of passing legal custody is actually the first priority in state law--in flagrant violation of federal law and contradiction of other state laws compelling cooperation with federal law, but there you go. VA is the only state in the nation to be so blatant about it. Anyway, I can't remember seeing this from anyone in NY so, hopefully, it is not common practice and if you go up a few notches you will hit someone who say, "oh no, that is not going to happen."

If you get nowhere calling up the chain of command in social services, you may have to try to tap the court. Others here have tried state government contacts, but I haven't and can't advise on that.

Keep copies of all letters you send her and anyone else, certified return receipt; copy via e-mail also if possible. If she doesn't move within the next couple of weeks, send letters to the family court "and all parties" in re the "child's name" foster case. In those, state who you are, relationship to the child, your efforts, with dates, to secure placement of the child with you for fostering and possible adoption in the event there is no RU. Briefly describe yourself and home--married X years, x children, own home, no criminal record, prior relationship to the child if any, and any special qualifications. Relate your concerns regarding the cw's threat (use the word "threat") to bypass the court and return the child to his offending parent's (mother's) home (true) if you refuse to allow them to dump the state's open custody case on you.

You would, of course, be in a much better position if you already had placement, but signing up for legal custody without parental rights or even rights of guardianship (which is stronger than legal custody, but still far from bullet proof) isn't the way to get it if you can avoid it.

The best hope is that this is a short-lived bluff made in the hope that you'll bite and she'll cut her caseload and court budget. It may be that if she sees you won't, she'll do the sensible thing and place the child with you. It would still be cheaper and easier for her to do so than to leave the child in an unrelated foster home...and if she moved the child quickly, then that would free up the regular foster bed for another child. So, it's really more in her interest to play ball with you than not.

I hate these games. I hate it when someone tries to squeeze the child to maximize their dept's efficiency. Good luck.

[mommytoEli]

wow...you go hadley2! look at all that information!

[EAGLE6]

Hadley- thank you for the advice. I believe it was actually your post on my first thread that opened my eye's to the "custody" issue.

My BIL called us today (the babies father). This is only the second time we've spoke to him since this happened. The first time he called to let us know that he and his GF (the babies mom) were told by CPS we offered to take the baby into foster care. He called to tell us he was grateful for that and that he understood we'd be following the rules strictly in regards to information, phone calls, visiting, ect...... At that time he also told us that CPS asked him and his GF if they had a "plan" for the baby. They both agreed they'd like to see him placed w/ us. That is what he told us, and the CW confirmed that.

Anyhow, he called tonight and said he had a 1-on-1 meeting w/ CPS today. He said they mentioned his baby was not placed w/ us yet. He seriously did not know as he has not been granted visitation yet and we have not spoke to him. Another long story about the maternal grandparents putting a restraining order on him for the baby (which I didn't even realize they could do since both mom and dad have been indicated in this case and both lost custody of the child to the state). Anyhow, he reiterated what the CW told me today-- that the CW told BIL today it would just be "so much better and it would go so much faster if we'd just file for custody".

Personally, I think that is incorrect too. I cannot see how it would be faster. I would think that retaining a lawyer and then waiting for a court date would be a much longer length of time.

I've been trying to be nice w/ the CW's, because ultimately I'm dependant on them to place my nephew here. I think I've been afraid to make them mad.

[hkolln]

It may be costly to get an attorney but man it sure may help you! You have to decide how much your nephew is worth and if you wish to fight or let go. Have you contacted the Governors office for help? If the child has a GAL or CASA now is the time to contact him/her. They may be able to help.

I can also remember the SW when we became involved in our niece's case saying that she couldn't believe how persistant and resiliant we were. We never gave up and she saw that. We'd call her every day or every other day to keep her on her toes and we documented EVERY single phone call and copied every single letter. The SW said most of the time relatives won't get involved because of the hassles and the frustation with the system! I think they hope you will give up and they won't have to do their job.

And don't be afraid to make them mad. You are only showing them how passionate you are to move your nephew to your house. Do it in a positive manner. Hiring an attorney was a scary thing for us because we were afraid CPS would frown upon us. I have to tell you that was the turning point in our entire case! The attorney filed a court motion to move our niece here, the Judge denied it but it showed the SW and the CASA we were VERY serious about raising our niece. I think without that point in the case I don't believe it would have been decided to place her with us. Plus the CASA worker met with us a few days prior to the hearing and after we sat and talked for 2 hrs she said to us "100% you should have your niece in your home" and she was on our side from that day forward and it helped in court and with CPS on making the final placement decision. All in all it took us a good 11 months to finally get our niece home and then another 12 mos before we could call her our daughter. Looking back at it now I can remember how frustrating it was however how rewarding it is now and how so worth it all was to us.

[EAGLE6]

We had a long talk w/ our MIL and FIL today. We are going to go ahead and call an attorney on Monday. They are going to contribute to it. We can afford it for the most part, but there is going to be a point that we may not be able to (the legal fee's). I cannot deplete all our resources, nor do I think it's smart to charge up 1ooo's of dollars in debt, when we're trying to bring another child in the home. That could send us into not being financially stable.

My In-laws themselves will not attempt to file for custody, because they are not in a position health-wise.

I will call the CW back Monday morning, as they did call us right at the end of the day on Friday and we were not home.

hkolln- were you fighting to get custody or a foster placement of your neice?

[Boulderbabe]

Can I make a suggestion about finding an attorney?

You need an attorney who is VERY experienced in what are called dependency and neglect (foster care) cases. Do not just get a regular family law attorney. They don't know what they're doing, and the law is very intricate and difficult in this area.

My suggestion would be to find out if your state has something like the Office of the Child's Representative. If so, get a list of guardians ad litem, and see if one of them who is not already involved in this case will represent you.

If that doesn't work, you can also contact your local or state foster parent association, and ask somebody there for a referral to an experienced D&N lawyer.

[hkolln]

We fought from August 2006 til March 2007 (we hired our attorney then) and finally got placement in June 2007. We became licensed foster parents in November 2006 in order to move her to our home. The SW's gave us the run around so badly we finally had to hire an attorney which didn't cost us too much. He was a family attorney in the state our niece was in. She was in foster care in another state and when she moved here she was a foster child in our home until we adopted her in July 2008. She is offically our daughter now. During the adoption process here we hired another attorney locally whom worked for 25 yrs within DCF here and she was VERY knowledgable in cases similar to ours so it was a relief to us to have such a great attorney on our side.

We did not want custody...instead wanted to have her placed as a foster child. We knew TPR was evident (my SIL voluntarilly relinquished and biodad was terminated by default) so we knew we wouldn't get any help if we went for custody. And with custody the parental rights are intact and it's not permanent for the child. All in all placement is normally decided by the CPS agency the child is in custody of and in our case the Judge didn't really want to have anything to do with the decision. They had a CRPT meeting (placement meeting) to determine if she would stay with the FP's there or come live with us. At least that is how our case was.

Best thing is to really get on the SW's case and keep up with it and document, document, document everything! Our attorney we first hired was very glad that we documented everything up til we hired him. It showed that we were very involved since August of 2006 and how much work we had done up to that point. We had everyones contact info we had spoken to (from the CW up to the Governor's office) and when.

I would look for an attorney with experience working on cases like yours...or if you can find one that has worked within DCF then that is even better. Luckily my job reimbursed me 100% of my attorney fees back (what a great benefit!) but it was expensive to come up with the money. This year on our taxes we'll take the adoption tax credit also and can get the entire amount as she's considered special needs (due to our adoption subsidy agreement). Just ask around (if you can call your local agency for a lawyer referral) and definitely get with the childs GAL or CASA. They can hopefully help.

I agree with boulderbabe. Find an attorney familiar with these type of cases. They will know the laws in their state and the federal statutes. Normally laws are written that they have to "research" relative placements first but most laws don't specify that placement has to be with a relative. I understand why. Some relatives may not be fit or have a safe home to raise the child. But if you can prove you are a fit and safe home (by getting an approve home study done) then you can fight alittle harder.

[millie58]

Anothing route to go is request a fair hearing. CW's in NY HATE the words "fair hearing". Write a letter to the Social Services commissioner (head person in charge). CC the cw so she knows you mean business. I'm in NY and I've heard that kinship is always preferred. Good luck!!

Originally Posted by hkolln

We fought from August 2006 til March 2007 (we hired our attorney then) and finally got placement in June 2007. We became licensed foster parents in November 2006 in order to move her to our home. The SW's gave us the run around so badly we finally had to hire an attorney which didn't cost us too much. He was a family attorney in the state our niece was in. She was in foster care in another state and when she moved here she was a foster child in our home until we adopted her in July 2008. She is offically our daughter now. During the adoption process here we hired another attorney locally whom worked for 25 yrs within DCF here and she was VERY knowledgable in cases similar to ours so it was a relief to us to have such a great attorney on our side.

We did not want custody...instead wanted to have her placed as a foster child. We knew TPR was evident (my SIL voluntarilly relinquished and biodad was terminated by default) so we knew we wouldn't get any help if we went for custody. And with custody the parental rights are intact and it's not permanent for the child. All in all placement is normally decided by the CPS agency the child is in custody of and in our case the Judge didn't really want to have anything to do with the decision. They had a CRPT meeting (placement meeting) to determine if she would stay with the FP's there or come live with us. At least that is how our case was.

Best thing is to really get on the SW's case and keep up with it and document, document, document everything! Our attorney we first hired was very glad that we documented everything up til we hired him. It showed that we were very involved since August of 2006 and how much work we had done up to that point. We had everyones contact info we had spoken to (from the CW up to the Governor's office) and when.

I would look for an attorney with experience working on cases like yours...or if you can find one that has worked within DCF then that is even better. Luckily my job reimbursed me 100% of my attorney fees back (what a great benefit!) but it was expensive to come up with the money. This year on our taxes we'll take the adoption tax credit also and can get the entire amount as she's considered special needs (due to our adoption subsidy agreement). Just ask around (if you can call your local agency for a lawyer referral) and definitely get with the childs GAL or CASA. They can hopefully help.

I agree with boulderbabe. Find an attorney familiar with these type of cases. They will know the laws in their state and the federal statutes. Normally laws are written that they have to "research" relative placements first but most laws don't specify that placement has to be with a relative. I understand why. Some relatives may not be fit or have a safe home to raise the child. But if you can prove you are a fit and safe home (by getting an approve home study done) then you can fight alittle harder.

[Hadley2]

Like I said, this is contrary, I think, to NY state law--they can ask you if you'd rather take legal custody, but they aren't supposed to force you. They are supposed to approve you as a foster parent within 24 hours if that is what you want to do--quote the citation below to the cw! See the statutes at the end of this.

Again, tons of good information here: State Statutes - Descriptions including the sections I've pasted below. Especially see case planning, permanency planning, placement with relatives, etc. The sections give you the NY statute numbers so you can start doing original research too off the NY state code online.

Most attorneys will give a free consultation of about a half hour. When you ask for one, be prepared to do it right then. Give them the tightest summary possible of just the facts--how long ago removal, reason if you know, current placement, when you contacted ss, your status--married, own home x years, no convictions, status of your efforts to be approved for placement, status of your efforts to go ahead and get the full license (you really should try to do this), what the cw has told you re placement and the threats she has made if you do not agree to take simple legal custody. You want to talk as little as possible--don't offer your opinions or chat about what a jerk your BIL may be, etc.--and let them tell you what the law says, your options, what they can/can't do for you.

After speaking with a few, you will soon figure out who knows what they're talking about, who is a good fit for you, etc.

To find one, call your local district family court and ask for the list of guardian ad litem attorneys appointed in foster cases. Be aware that GALs are appointed by and work for the court, not social services. Many also have a private family law practice. Those are the ones you are looking for.

Be aware that most attorneys cannot actually do much legal work for you if you are not a party to the case. They can, however, give you advice and of the many I talked to, almost all were helpful in that consultation.

Also when you contact the family court, ask what is the procedure in a foster care case for filing to become an intervenor, person with a legitimate interest, or whatever a relative can do to either become a party to the case or at least be notified of and allowed in to all legal proceedings.

I have a feeling it is a bluff, but where the child is already placed elsewhere, time is of the essence--keep going up the chain of command within that office and then to whatever is over it. Somebody in charge somewhere won't like that this cw is wasting a licensed foster bed on a child that could be with family--the cost to the agency is a wash, and, again, they need that bed for another child.

Good luck!

Relative Placement for Foster Care and Guardianship

Citation: Fam. Ct. Act § 1017

The court should determine whether the relative seeks approval as a foster parent for the purposes of providing

care for a child in need of placement or wishes to provide free care and custody for the child during the pendency
of any orders.

Requirements for Placement with Relatives

Citation: Fam. Ct. Act § 1017

The commissioner, pursuant to regulations of the Department of Social Services, will perform an investigation of the

home of the relative within 24 hours and approve such relative, if qualified, as a foster parent.

Relatives Who May Adopt

Citation: Soc. Serv. Law § 383-c

Subject to relinquishment by a parent, the court shall accept all petitions for the adoption of a child by any relative

of the child.

Requirements for Adoption by Relatives

Citation: Soc. Serv. Law § 383-c

A home study is required.

[EAGLE6]

This information is invaluable. I returned their call today from Friday, but of course they did not call me back, again.

I guess the CW was at my inlaws again today, to review paperwork w/ my BIL. She told my MIL she believes this case will drag on for quite awhile. The baby had both his femurs fractured on 2 different day's. It's been determined that 1 happened while the baby was in the care of his mom at her mom's, the other while the baby was in care of my BIL. One is a basic fracture, the other is a spiral fracture. That on top of the neglect charges. The whole case is just sad, and I wish I'd of known something sooner, so we could of prevented this. I never seen either of them treat the baby in a violent manner. With the timeframe they pinpointed for the 1st break, we had seen him 2 days prior to that.

Anyhow, I'm going to call up the chain of command tomorrow until I get someone to listen. My husband and I have been married for almost 10 yrs, we have a 3 bedroom home (w/ 1 of the bedrooms completely ready for the baby). We do rent, but our landlord would give us nothing but a glowing reference. It's a single family ranch we rent. We do have 1 dog, but he's up-to-date w/ his shots, lisc, ect, and not a threat to the baby. He's a shih tzu, not even a questionable breed. My husband works from home, and he is just abosultely wonderful w/ babies and children. So the baby would not need any daytime childcare. I work 4 days a week out of the house though. We have 1 other child, mine who is almost 16. This is the only catch I can think of. I had my son when I was 18. My husband and I have a great relationship w/ my son's paternal family though. They've all offered to come forward as references. I'm just not sure how social services will look on the fact that I was a teen mom and my son is not my husbands bio son. I still graduated college, never was indicated for anything in the line of child abuse (my husband and I have never been arrested for ANYTHING or investigated). We support ourselves fully, and made a good life for us (I have my parents to thank for all their support when I was a young mom). We're both going to be 34 next week. Lastly, my son is fully suppotive of his cousin coming here. He was actually a little upset they are taking so long w/ this.

Anyhow, I just don't see anything glaring there that should stop them from wanting to investigate us at least. I don't understand why they want to drag this on for so long. I've been so discouraged all weekend, all I could think about was my nephew and my heart was breaking. We were not able to see him at the hospital, and we of course have not been able to see him since.

Anyhow, I do want to thank you all for the information, leads, and research. I am most definetly not giving up, and intend to see where I can get tomorrow.

[EAGLE6]

I just researched those statues. I found 3 that are all in effect in NY, that indicate our CW is definetly not following protocol.

Anyhow, I have also located the #'s for the main office in Albany (I'm not in Albany), but I think I'm going to call there first to see if I can report a complaint higher up.

Who knows, maybe just maybe I can still have him here by the end of the month..........

[stevenstwin]

Originally Posted by EAGLE6

I just researched those statues. I found 3 that are all in effect in NY, that indicate our CW is definetly not following protocol.

Anyhow, I have also located the #'s for the main office in Albany (I'm not in Albany), but I think I'm going to call there first to see if I can report a complaint higher up.

Who knows, maybe just maybe I can still have him here by the end of the month..........

Good luck! I've got my fingers crossed for you!