[onhazier]

In reading the current news on California's Proposition 8 in this CNN article,

California ban on same-sex marriage undecided - CNN.com

I found this paragraph:

"Fifty-seven percent of voters in Arkansas supported a measure to prohibit unmarried sexual partners from adopting children or from serving as foster parents. The measure specifies that the prohibition applies to opposite-sex as well as same-sex couples."

The item the voters in Arkansas had to consider is the Arkansas Adoption and Foster Care Act. Below are links to source information on the act.

Campaign to Pass Arkansas Adoption Act Kicks Off
Family Council Action Committee - Arkansas Adoption and Foster Care Act
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.ph...tion_Ban_(2008)

The Family Council Action Committee, the organization which put this item on the ballot, believes that this will actually increase the number of adoptive homes.

What am I missing here? Regardless of a person's sexuality, how does a law like this help the children who need foster or adoptive homes?

This USA Today article states:
"The ballot measure would take the place of a state policy that currently bars unmarried couples living together from serving as foster parents."

Unmarried adoption ban OK'd for Ark. ballot - USATODAY.com

Does this mean that there are no foster families with unmarried couples? Does this mean that there are no adoptive families with unmarried couples in Arkansas?

I live in Virginia; not Arkansas. I'm just trying to understand. Yes, I see the prejudice inherent in this Act. I just don't get how this helps the children find homes.

[2Tim1seven]

"Any shortage of foster homes or any shortage of families willing to adopt can be attributed to the fact that married couples are not meeting this need. As the Arkansas Adoption Act is discussed and debated it will highlight the need for more homes and result in an increase in the number of good homes for Arkansas’ most vulnerable children."

I think this should answer your question. They aren't saying that by eliminating unmarried couples from fostering it will increase the number of foster homes. The need for having more married couples come forward and actually provide foster care will be brought to the forfront because of the attention this Adoption Act was/is receiving.

[c.a]

Originally Posted by 2Tim1seven

"Any shortage of foster homes or any shortage of families willing to adopt can be attributed to the fact that married couples are not meeting this need. As the Arkansas Adoption Act is discussed and debated it will highlight the need for more homes and result in an increase in the number of good homes for Arkansas’ most vulnerable children."

I think this should answer your question. They aren't saying that by eliminating unmarried couples from fostering it will increase the number of foster homes. The need for having more married couples come forward and actually provide foster care will be brought to the forfront because of the attention this Adoption Act was/is receiving.

And you don't think that there might be a better way to highlight the need for foster and adoptive homes than discrimination?

If denigrating and discriminating against a group of people is what motivates you to be a foster or adoptive parent - you are not worthy of the job.

[2Tim1seven]

I think that bringing a child into a home where the couple is not married, is not a good example for the child. I lived with my husband for 9 years before we got married, but now that I am older and have children of my own, I wouldn't recommend it. Most children in foster care come from homes where they've witnessed multiple partners with their parent, whether it be their mother or father. Often these children are abused by bio mom's boyfriend. So yes, I believe that a healthy married couple is a better example for the child than a couple that is just cohabitating. I also believe that children need the love and nurturing of both a father and a mother. Each sex brings different influences to the child's life, and gives the child balance. Does that mean that a single parent can't be a good parent? No, that's not what I'm saying, it's just not ideal. I was raised by my Dad, and he did the best that he could. Did I miss having a mother? Yes, and I still do. It's not about discrimination, it's about what's the best situation for the child.

[mommy2fiveplus]

Actually what the Arkansas law allows is a single person (male or female) to foster or adopt as a single parent, what it dissallows are couples who have lived together for decades but choose not to get married to foster or adopt. What I would suggest to those people is to leave the state move somewhere where thier ambition to love and protect children is appreciated despite thier marital status and forget Arkansas's backward notions.

They can come to Michigan, we always welcome new enthusastic foster parents, and you don't have to be married either. We're not. And I don't feel that we have set a bad example for any of our children: bio, adopted or foster. They get no less love, no less support, no less committment, no less stability (our 8 year unmarried relationship has outlasted 3 of our friends divorces) and they see that our relationship is held together but something so much stronger than a piece of paper.

My daughter asked one day why we were not married and I told her our hearts are married but we don't need a piece of paper and a judge to tell us that but some people do and both ways are okay. I also told her that something really important keeps mommy and daddy together: Hard work. I told her lots of people have that piece of paper but all they have to do to end it is walk away, same as us, but both kinds of families just have to work really hard and love really hard to make it work.

I have found with my foster kids that papers mean very little to them when they are older, several of my foster brothers will tell you that on paper they are Anthony so-inso or Brandon so-in-so, but when they introduce themselves to you they are Anthony Parker or Brandon Parker or Devon Parker (my parent's last name). That piece of paper and its contents means very little to them, who they are is the identity they choose. Just like a marriage certificate can mean very little to some couples that have been together for years, they have choosen the course, duration and description of thier relationship, they just choose not to define it by someone else's standards.

You will find that those unmarried couples are some of the most excepting people out there, they do not tend to discriminate against other (as they are often discrimated against) and it is a really good quality in a foster parent, because if the foster family is not "perfect" the child may not feel as much pressure to be "perfect" either.

STEPPING OFF MY SOAPBOX NOW.

I agree with the OP that this is not a way to gain foster homes, it is a way to push an institution (marriage) onto people or turn them away from something that could really benefit society.

[cetalley]

I heard this was inacted to prohibit babies from being adopted by Gay-lesbian couples. Just when we think we have made strides, we ended doing something so adverse, it sets us back 10 yrs....I was fixing my grooms breakfast and did not catch anymore than that...

[mommy2fiveplus]

It is really a way for the state to legislate morality (in that case Christian morality). I think it has really very little to do with "the best interest of children" OR "increasing the number of GOOD foster homes" by highlighting foster care. It is the same concept as illegalizing abortion or taxing the rich to support the poor, they are all examples of legislating morality, sometimes it is Christian morality sometimes it is communist morality

We may see more of it in the Bible belt area in the future but I doubt it will spread farther than that. You are less likely to see legislation passed that discriminates against unmarried couples (be them straight or gay-lesbian or other) in the north, northeast ,midwest, southwest or west coast.

I think instead of fighting it, I would probably just move, I know I am a great parent and foster parent and I would want to be "wanted" and respected as a foster parent as well as appreciated and it won't happen there with that law. Too bad for the kids though, if the state loses great foster homes and those great new married and "good example setting" foster homes don't appear out of the woodwork (possibly because the economy is declining and more families are requiring two incomes to support them and foster care is anything but a cheap endevor) the kids will end up in less than satisfactory places: like group homes or back witrh their bios too soon, or substandard relative placements.

I am glad that law is not here in Michigan, I feel like the community we live in is a little less Judgemental and a lot less discriminatory than that.

[2Tim1seven]

Children are born into all kinds of families. They do not get to choose who their parents are. Foster care is completely different. You are talking about choosing the best possible environment for children to grow up in. I think we can all agree that men and woman are wired differently and bring different components to the parenting table. A child needs both a father and a mother. Ask anyone who grew up without a mother or father if they ever missed having that person in their life, and I'm confident they would say yes. A lot of people are emotionally screwed up today because they came from families missing a mom or a dad. Ask a therapist.

[mommy2fiveplus]

"Children are born into all kinds of families. They do not get to choose who their parents are. Foster care is completely different. You are talking about choosing the best possible environment for children to grow up in. I think we can all agree that men and woman are wired differently and bring different components to the parenting table. A child needs both a father and a mother. Ask anyone who grew up without a mother or father if they ever missed having that person in their life, and I'm confident they would say yes. A lot of people are emotionally screwed up today because they came from families missing a mom or a dad. Ask a therapist."- 2Tim1seven

What exactly does that have to do with the Arkansas Law?

That law does not prohbit single parents from fostering. It only prohibits unmarried couples (straight and gay-lesbian) from fostering. I would challenge you to ask any child or therapist if they think the child would be better off in a group home or with two parents (presumable even a man and woman) who are simply not married.

Not getting married does not "wire" you differently. A child in a home with an unmarried couple still gets the benefit of a father figure and a mother figure.

And you might want to take a close look at what you are saying, there are quite a few single foster and foster-adopt people on this forum that might believe you see them as less than the "best possible enviroment". Foster kids come from all different backgrounds and with lots of different histories. I know a few that were specifically placed in single parent homes because it was in thier best interest (due to the types of abuse they sufferred) to NOT have an additional parent or a parent of a certain sex in the home.

Would you put a 10 year old girl that has been sexually abused for years in a home with a father figure where she may be scared to sleep for fear of the abuse occurring again or would you place her in a single parent home with a loving foster mom who could help her recover and slowly reintroduce her to appropriate male relationships with the use of a mentor or foster grandfather?

There is NO "best possible enviroment" for every situation, families should be unique, like kids.

[shavon]

I will probably get chewed out by all of you for this comment but I will make it any way, that is what these boards are here for, different opinions..right...

I am totally against gay-lesbian foster adopt parents, however I am all in favor of single parents.

In my opinion, these kids have came from horrible homes, homes that they see moms or dads have multiple partners, abuse, neglect....Now you take one of these children and put them in a home of a lesbian-gay couple and they go to school and their little frineds find out that "Johnny or Jane" has 2 mommies or 2 daddies, no matter what any one says that will bother them even if the other children doesnt make an issue out of it.

However I have no problem with gay-lesbian couples, that is their choice, I may not agree with it but it is none of my business how they live their lives, I just feel if they choose to be with the same sex as they are they need to accept the baggage that comes along with it...They cant make babies together...

Okay ill shut up now..please dont ban me from these boards...

[jphollen]

Originally Posted by shavon

I am totally against gay-lesbian foster adopt parents, however I am all in favor of single parents.

I honestly respect your opinion but totally disagree with it. While I am in a traditional marriage, some of the best parents I know are same sex couples. I wonder if the people who are against it know any same sex parents? Or have any gay friends/family members.

I agree with the other poster who made a comment about going forward and this pushing us back.

[jbee]

did anyone see the two men on oprah once who had foster adopted a few kids? they took the ones no one else wanted. it took them awhile to find an agency willing to let them foster.
i don't care what you are, if you can provide a loving, stable home for these kids that 'normal' people want nothing to do with so be it. i know a couple that would make excellent parents but are hesitant about even trying to foster for fear they will be rejected because they are two men.

[minibus]

Originally Posted by shavon

I just feel if they choose to be with the same sex as they are they need to accept the baggage that comes along with it...They cant make babies together...

I'm sorry, but this logic tweaks me. My husband and I can't make babies together, due to infertility problems. We are married and we are man and woman. Does this mean that we shouldn't be allowed to adopt our children, since this is our "baggage" - that we can't make babies together? Or that older people (I guess you would only talk about women past menopause, then) shouldn't be able to foster/adopt?

[buttascotchbaby]

I know this is going slightly OT, which, for my two cents; I am appalled at the new law in Arkansas.

As a single parent (bio, adoptive and foster) I am extremely offended by the "logic" expressed by 2Tim1seven. I am not sure even where to begin to address the many things said... Lets see... It is a hard pill to swallow finding out that I am a "less than ideal" parent to my sweet children ... I am pretty sure I am not "emotionally screwed up" and I was raised by my father (had contact with my mom but raised by my dad, thank God). My bio son I am also pretty sure is not "emotionally screwed up" being raised by me. He has contact with his dad as well. His therapist (who sees all of the kids together to help aid in the transitions in our family with the addition of more kids) doesn't think he is "emotionally screwed up" -perhaps I should get a second opinion since you stated "ask a therapist"??! My two adopted kids do not appear to be "emotionally screwed up" by being placed with and adopted by me (nor have any of the dozen or so faster children who have been placed with me throughout the 5 years I have been fostering).

Also, FYI: foster kids don't get to choose their parents either. But you are probably right; it is better that they stay in a shelter, age out of the system, or, hey! maybe even leave them with their abusive TWO parent family than place them with (horror of horrors! ) a single parent foster family, a gay or lesbian foster family or an unmarried couple foster family.

I can't even begin to address shavon's statement of what she sees as being a fair punishment for someone loving someone of the same sex: the "baggage of not being able to make a baby together". Sheesh!

Everyone is absolutely entitled to their own opinion. It is just so sad for me, especially in light of these new times where there is so much hope that we are entering into a new, positive and changing time, to see opinions that are so judgemental, discriminating and hurtful still out there

OK, I will finish now before the steam coming out of my fingers typing lights my keyboard on fire

[EandDmom]

I am just going to say that my first husband is now living life as a single gay man. He is still the best man and father to my kids that I would ever hope to have in their lives. He would be a wonderful foster or adoptive parent and for anyone to just generalize statements about gay people makes me sick. And for Shavon.. he did make a baby two beautiful ones infact, so where does that leave your theory?