[wantonemore]

Originally Posted by kxl164

As for the other comment, it is my opinion. I'm sorry if you were offended by it, but it is what I think. I do not think it is best, but like the rest of the comment said, I'd rather see a child on a leash than left to run. I was asked what do I think when I see others using leashes, this is what I think. I can't make a choice for another family, but again it is my opinion. It was not meant to be rude or insulting, and I'm sorry if you feeling were hurt by it because that was not my intention.


I'd be interested if anyone would share an example of how they used a leash as a teaching tool, maybe I just need to be educated on the topic. All I have heard so far it is that people use them and some reasons why they use them, but not how they used them as a teaching tool.

Hi! I wasn't at all offended by your opinion. I am glad this is a diverse group of people, all with best interests at heart.

I would like to add that I don't think the "leash" or harness or teather needs to be a teaching tool, neccesarily. I just think of it as a "safety first" kinda thing...

I guess the same could be said of child locks on cupboards that contain cleaning products. Yes, you could keep your child by your side at every moment and be diligent about teaching them each time they go near the cabnet that it is bad to touch chemicals... but it only takes one time to have something awful happen. I would rather the locks be on, you know.

Doesn't mean that I am right and you are wrong, or vise versa, but as this analogy applies to the teather, I would rather be safe than sorry.

[shycar]

wantonemore-I love your example. That is why I got my dd leash. To keep her safe. How many times we hear stories of how they turned around to pick something on a shelf and their toddler is gone. A toddler is a toddler. They dont understand about strangers and what bad people are. They can be holding to the cart, like we teach them, we turn around to get the jar of spagetti, we start putting the jar in cart and toddler gone. Toddler wonder off with a woman holding out a yummy peice of candy. Scary!! No thanks her leash stays on.

I remember with a 2 yr old fd, I told her to hold my hand that a stranger can take her away. My dh looked at me with this look. He said "um honey a stranger did take her and brought her to us and she is safe with us". Well duh, I never thought of it that way.

[kxl164]

Originally Posted by wantonemore

Hi! I wasn't at all offended by your opinion. I am glad this is a diverse group of people, all with best interests at heart.

I would like to add that I don't think the "leash" or harness or teather needs to be a teaching tool, neccesarily. I just think of it as a "safety first" kinda thing...

I guess the same could be said of child locks on cupboards that contain cleaning products. Yes, you could keep your child by your side at every moment and be diligent about teaching them each time they go near the cabnet that it is bad to touch chemicals... but it only takes one time to have something awful happen. I would rather the locks be on, you know.

Doesn't mean that I am right and you are wrong, or vise versa, but as this analogy applies to the teather, I would rather be safe than sorry.

I totally agree that the teather is a safety tool.

I also agree with locking up the chemicals analogy, it is better to safe than sorry. It us just that you have to teach the kids why you lock up the chemicals too; so if it is open, or if they go to grandmom's house and they are not locked up they still know not to go near them. Locking up the chemical alone isn't enough.

I see the teather as saying go ahead, I will keep you safe, but the child doesn't learn how to keep themselves safe; just like locking up the chemicals, but not explainging why, wouldn't teach them that they are dangerous.

Maybe that is why I don't see the teathers as the right tool to use, I don't see how they teach the child the importance of staying near a parent if they have the freedom to walk away (within a certain circumference). It helps the parent keep the child safe, but it doesn't help the child keep themselves safe.

(I do understand the pp's experience of using the teather for her child as security for the child. I understand following your child's need for security. Maybe I would have done it differently, but security for the child is the most important thing.)

[wantonemore]

So... yes! I agree! Both should be done (keeping the child safe, while teaching them the "whys" of what you are doing!)

I didn't use the teather on a daily basis... for me I just "held hands" at the grocery store, post office, around town... etc. Lots of time for learning.

When I did use it was in an enviroment that was unfamiliar and more likely for my child to become "bumped away from me", lost or abducted. Like Disneyland or the zoo or the fair.

I hope that makes sense!

[MommyAlysia]

Originally Posted by kxl164

using a stroller gives you the opportunity to try again and again to remember the rules and stay close. I'm sure the same could be said for the leash, but it doesn't seem to have the same impact, imo. The stroller would contain them and they wouldn't be "allowed" to walk, it was a means to teach them that control goes along with independence. You want to walk, you have to follow these rules, we will keep trying until you can do it safely.

You already said you don't think its effective, but that's exactly how it is used as a teaching tool. Why do you say it doesn't have the same impact? I am assuming you've never tried since you don't like them. It does have the same impact IMO.My 2 yo doesn't normally like the leash (sometimes he does, it depends on his mood) so if he protests holding my hand then he has to wear the harness or get in the stroller if we have it with us. Since he wants to avoid the harness he'll usually hold my hand.

I don't use a harness solely for a teaching tool anyways, I only brought it up because you said it doesn't teach them anything and I disagree with that. I use it mostly for safety and convenience purposes. With toddlers they don't get the option of walking right next to me or holding onto the cart/stroller most of the times. Its not worth the risk IMO, even if they listen 90% of the time I am not willing to risk that 10% in a parking lot or a crowded fair. If I am by myself with the stroller they don't even get the hand holding option, so thats where convenience comes in. It allows them to walk and gives them freedom but still keeps them safe.

I wasn't offended that you don't like the idea of leashes I was offended because you assume we are not making the best decision for our kids. What would, IYO, be the best thing for us to do? Handholding is not always an option and I very much disagree that a stroller is a *better* option than a leash. Its an acceptable option but a stroller confines them even more than a leash does and it doesn't give them any exercise. Why is a leash not a good choice? Whats *wrong* about us using one?

ETA I hope you don't think I am trying to argue, I am really just trying to understand.

[ALfostermom]

i am a puppy backpack user too, as i already mentioned above. when my 2.5 yr old child is wearing it, i also hold his hand. it is there for when he decides to let go and take off. he doesn't meet a stranger and will go running up to anyone in the store/restaurant. I don't want to take the chance that he is going to go to the wrong person and they take off with him. It is a safety issue for me not a control issue. i would rather know that he is safe than what people think. because face it he is 2 and no matter how well you teach your child they have free will and will be a kid. no CHILD is going to be perfect 100% of the time and that 1% chance of him/her getting hurt, lost, or kidnapped while in my care is not worth it. So i will continue to use my backpack for crowded places and keep my kids safe. By the way this particular child can climb out of a stroller in 30 seconds flat, so how safe is that?

[melissa_bear003]

Originally Posted by kxl164

Melissa_bear- I wasn't saying anyone was lazy, I was saying that I don't think it teaches them anything. Maybe I am wrong and it worked for you and you used it as a teaching tool. In my opinon and experience with with mulitple small children (4yo, 2.5yo, 24 months, and 10 months when our foster children were first placed with us) I didn't feel the need to use a leash, even with my willful child. If they wanted to walk, they learned to hold hands, hold onto the coach, or walk next to me.

And I'm glad that's been your experience. For us, with our 3.5 yo, the backpack was a back up for when he did drop our hands. Or when we were in a boring line up, and he wanted to walk around a bit, not just stand still in one spot. It allowed him to check out the leaves, the grass, stones, etc that weren't on the sidewalk that I couldn't take the stroller into. It gave him some freedom and independance while still ensuring his safety, and taught him appropriate limits (stay near Mommy) while doing so. And once again, pushing a stroller while holding a hand isn't a skill I've mastered. I personally needed both hands on the stroller. Having the back pack buddy meant he wasn't locked into a stroller all the time.

Not only that, but there are times and places where the double stroller simply cannot be accomodated, so it meant that the umbrella stroller was used, and he HAD to walk.

He's 3.5 now, doesn't use the buddy, and does perfectly fine, so I'm guessing it taught him well enough. He's always held hands in parking lots, crossing streets, etc...but I *like* my child being able to have some independance while still ensuring their safety.

[kxl164]

I like that these boards help people look at ideas from many different angles. My opinon seems to be judgemental in this case, which it probably is, but I'm glad that we can all talk and it gives us all a chance to see different perspectives because I think that it helps. Well at least it helps me.


You already said you don't think its effective, but that's exactly how it is used as a teaching tool. Why do you say it doesn't have the same impact?
-- I do not think harnesses are effective because there is a clear difference between sitting (or being held) and walking. To give a child who is having trouble learning what is safe and what isn't, with walking, I think a clear line is best. You follow the rules you can walk, you don't you have to ride or be held. I think that using a harness is confusing for a child... (child) I ran away so now I have to wear a harness, so now I can only run so far. As opposed to... I ran away and now I have to sit. I think that distinction needs to be clear AND give the body/mind connection, so you use words and the body to teach safety.


It allows them to walk and gives them freedom but still keeps them safe.
-- I think that harnesses give a false sense of security. Your child can walk alone, and in my mind's eye, a few feet away from you. Things can still happen in those few feet, a car can hit someone who is three feet away and not hit you. Also, someone can easily cut a strap. Also you could drop the strap or a plastic buckle could break. I will not trust my child's safety to plastic. I will trust my own hand and my child, after they show that they can be trusted. For me, the freedom to walk requires the responsibility to stay close and/or hold hands. Without one, you don't get the other and I won't trust my child's safety to a harness.

I wasn't offended that you don't like the idea of leashes I was offended because you assume we are not making the best decision for our kids. What would, IYO, be the best thing for us to do?
--You are completely right and I apologize. I went with my gut reaction that those who use harnesses are not teaching their children to be safe- because they are confusing the child. I still think that it is confusing for the child and not an effective means of teaching safety and gives parents a false sense of security; but parents who are using them are trying their best to keep their children safe and I apologize if my past words made anyone feel that they didn't. I thought that I was clear about that, but perhaps not.

...a stroller confines them even more than a leash does and it doesn't give them any exercise. Why is a leash not a good choice? Whats *wrong* about us using one?
-- I can't speak to exercise, because my children get pleanty of it and we don't HAVE to walk to get exercise so I can choose to make then sit w/o worrying about that. Again, I think that leashes give a false sense of secuity and do not teach proper behavior effectively. If you need this to make sure your child does get exercise then do what you need to do because exercise is vital. As for the stroller being confining, that is the exact point which makes the method effective.


ETA I hope you don't think I am trying to argue, I am really just trying to understand.
-- I'm trying to understand too.

I *like* my child being able to have some independance while still ensuring their safety.
-- I like this too, but my children have to earn their independence by being safe and I will not trust a harness to teach that to them, I trust myself and I trust them.

You said you used it as a back-up because you needed to in certain situations, I respect that. It isn't what I would have done, I would have altered the situations and made up games for the children to do while waiting instead of using the harness to allow exploration.

I think we all want out children to be safe, I just see harnesses as doing more harm than good most of the time. Although I haven't been to DisneyWorld so what do I know!!

[melissa_bear003]

Originally Posted by kxl164

I think we all want out children to be safe, I just see harnesses as doing more harm than good most of the time.

I don't honestly understand this comment. You've never used a harness, have no experience with it, so how can you determine that they do more harm than good? Heck, how do you determine that they do ANY harm? Are there case studies I'm not aware of? Some sort of fact? Anything beyond your personal aversion and assumption as to why parents use them and the effect on the children?

I'd also add that I DO teach my children to be safe, a harness is one tool for me. The implication that I'm solely relying on a harness rather than taking the time to teach my child is offensive to me as a parent.

[meshsgrl]

I think a harness could be like training wheels on a bike... helping kids to learn how to stay safe.
I have 4 toddlers, they have been with me less then 2 months. They are still getting to know me and my rules. they have so many other things that need attention teaching them to hold my hand isnt top priority. My top priority is to keep them safe, to keep track of all of them in public. But with time because of wearing the leash, they will know to stay close to me. I dont use it with my 4 yr old... but my 3 yrs old fight to wear it...
I have people judging me because I am a single cc mom with AA kids... I never thought people would judge my parenting because my kids wear a safety leash!

[kxl164]

OK, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I tried to be very clear about that and to you specifically when I said I respected that you used a harness as a back-up.

I'm done, feel free to think that I have no idea what I am talking about. I posted an opinon derived from my thoughts on child safety, teaching methods, and instincts. I think they confuse children and that they give a false sense of secuity. I will not risk my child being confused about safety issues; I want them to trust me and themselves, not a harness, to keep them safe.

If you want to use one, use it, don't let my opinon stop you.

In no way did I ever say tha anyone who used a harness didn't teach their child about safety. I said the signal it sends can confuse a child. So even if you do teach your child to be safe, but they know that they can run away from you because that is what the harness allows, even it is 5 feet, then the teaching isn't as effective. That opinon is based on my years as a parent, day care worker, and special education aide.

We can disagree, that is fine, I'm done. Have a nice day all, and I hope no one else thinks that I was trying to be offensive when I was trying to clarify my opinion/position.

[MommyAlysia]

My 2.5 yo I have been referring to is developmental delayed and he isn't confused by it, he understands perfectly. And we obviously have 2 VERY different kids, because, to my ds, being put in a stroller wouldn't be anymore of a natural consequence for him not holding my hand then walking with a harness would. And me holding him because he doesn't listen would be a REWARD because he prefers to be held when we are out over *everything* else( which is simply not possible all of the time, lol). And I wasn't trying to imply if you use a stroller you aren't giving them enough exercise, I was just pointing that getting more by using the "leash" is an added bonus. When we use the harness we are having a big day, being in the stroller all day makes some CRANKY kids around here, so I appreciate being able to let them walk some of it off throughout those days. But I also think its ok to agree to disagree, I have some opinions about other parenting issues I am sure a TON of people would disagree with me about and proably assume I was being judgmental about! I completely accept your apology. I'm sorry if you felt attacked at all.