[KT08]

For anyone reading this forum with foster, birth or adopted school-age children, please help me make this a smooth transition. I love advice from the been-there-done-that experts. :-)

I am a fairly new foster parent, and new parent, period. Have had a nearly 2-year-old in my care for, well, nearly 2 years. Fabulous experience. Love him to pieces. He's my first placement. Heading to TPR/adoption. I am so thrilled. I can't believe my luck. Let's call him Sonny Boy.

Sonny Boy has an 8-year-old sister "Honey Girl" placed in relative care with grandparents (her mother's parents). The grandmother died while Honey Girl was in their care. Grandfather struggling. At the end of his rope. Wants to call DSS ASAP.

During these past 1 1/2 years while with grandparents, Honey Girl has had a LOT of contact with birth parents. Never overnight, but DSS rules rarely followed. Honey Girl has long daily phone conversations with birth parents (she should be having NO phone contact). Honey Girl (HG) has supervised visitation only (2 hours) per week with birth parents. However, HG also has a large extended family who is allowed to see her and they allow HG to see her mom and dad unsupervised.

Bio mom and dad very manipulative in regards to telling HG that she is coming home. Every court date, they tell her: you are coming home today. Of course, they have been wrong every court date.....

At the supervised visitation yesterday (I was there), they talked to HG about the new private school they have enrolled her in, blah blah. This from a couple who had their phone disconnected last week.... All lies and manipulation.

Anyway, I could go on for pages, but you get the idea. The grandfather is ready to let her go into foster care. I feel certain DSS will ask me to take her in. I don't think any of her extended family will take her due to fears of DSS investigating them! Plus, DSS has already done a home study (failed) on the relative most active in Honey Girl's life.

How do I prepare this sensitive young girl for the reality that she is not going home? How do I help her adjust to my home if she comes to live with me?

She knows me and likes me. I am taking her and Sonny Boy to the beach this weekend for an overnight trip. Our first with Honey Girl. She is very excited about it.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[~*Max*~]

My situation was different because I was confident from the start my kids would be going home but it was very, very hard having an 8/9 yo who loved his parents dearly and thought his dad walked on water and who was devastated at being in care. He got so depressed and discouraged especially when the case was continued at 6 months when mom and dad's attorney did not show (they self-paid...or maybe did not pay). It was so hard. And that was WITH the hope of going home. Do you hope to adopt Honey Girl as well? I don't have much wisdom - maybe the book "Little Miss Spider" could lead to a good discussion between you two? Or if she can sit through a chapter book, maybe she'd appreciate the message in "Mandy"? Does she know her little brother is likely to be adopted by you?

[Mkap]

I too am a fairly green foster to adopt parent. Our first placement was an 8 year old girl. It was her first time in the system and she was terrified. Her mom had warned her against foster parents, how much she would hate it if she ever went into custody etc. When she came to us she was very resistent toward my husband. She would only bond with me. She adored her dad, thought he could do no wrong. Said he could do everything and anything better than my husband. She went back with mom and dad after 3 months. A year later she came back to us for a month. During that month she didn't like her parents anymore. In fact, loved my husband more than ever. Her real dad had disappointed her so much, she knew what it was like to be able to really count on parents with us. She didn't want to go home, she wanted to stay with us forever. But she went back. I don't know about advice. Just be there for her. Show her stability and consistency and love.

[Boulderbabe]

I think you have to continually remind her about reality, while not trying to crush her or badmouth her parents. You could say, "That private school sure would be nice, Honey Girl! I bet your mom and dad love you so much, that if they could send you there, they would. But it's very expensive, so that might not happen."

Or you can use the word "wish." "I bet your mom and dad WISH they could bring you home. But we don't know what the judge is going to say." "I bet you WISH you could go home with your mom and dad today. But we need to do what the judge says, so let's see what happens."

The point is to honor the emotions behind the wish, while still cautioning her about the reality. You can't protect her from her bmom and bdad letting her down---she will eventually have to learn that they can't be trusted. She will be disappointed. Just do your best to respect her feelings while not making yourself into the bad guy!

[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by Boulderbabe

I think you have to continually remind her about reality, while not trying to crush her or badmouth her parents. You could say, "That private school sure would be nice, Honey Girl! I bet your mom and dad love you so much, that if they could send you there, they would. But it's very expensive, so that might not happen."

Or you can use the word "wish." "I bet your mom and dad WISH they could bring you home. But we don't know what the judge is going to say." "I bet you WISH you could go home with your mom and dad today. But we need to do what the judge says, so let's see what happens."

The point is to honor the emotions behind the wish, while still cautioning her about the reality. You can't protect her from her bmom and bdad letting her down---she will eventually have to learn that they can't be trusted. She will be disappointed. Just do your best to respect her feelings while not making yourself into the bad guy!

This is excellent advice! When lil guy was sad and angry, I supported him and let him know he had a right to be sad or angry. Validating her emotions and always being honest (with good judgement about what you share with her) will help her make a good adjustment and bond with you.

You are a wonderful person to be taking in this lovely young lady--I am so glad she has you.

[KT08]

Everyone has really wonderful advice. I knew you would!

Maybe the book "Little Miss Spider" could lead to a good discussion between you two? Or if she can sit through a chapter book, maybe she'd appreciate the message in "Mandy"

Honey Girl is a great reader and I will definitely put those two books on my list of things to get her. Thank you for that advice.

Regarding whether she knows I want to/plan to adopt Sonny Boy: She's in denial, like her parents. She knows Sonny Boy calls me Mommy and she knows he's attached to me, as she can see that with her own eyes when we've had joint visitation. She knows I love him. She also knows she's important to me, too, as I tell her I love her when I hug her goodbye. I think she will attach to me but she will have a deep dark sadness, too.

She's in denial about the adoption primarily b/c her birth parents keep telling her that she and Sonny Boy are coming home. They fixed up their rooms, talk about the new school year, fantasy vacations, etc. She also has a large extended family that she's been allowed contact with this whole time, and they also feed into her fantasies.

I think you have to continually remind her about reality, while not trying to crush her or badmouth her parents

Great advice. I try to mostly listen and I comfort her when she is upset (after visitation). That fantasy is so real and palpable, though. I can understand it, of course. Even if her birth parents weren't telling her that stuff, it would be a natural fantasy, I imagine. It's the only life she really knows.

I think my primary struggle with her when I take her in will be over the phone (her wanting to call birth parents.) Grandfather gave up fighting this. He said he would have to hide every phone in the house to stop her.

Any advice on dealing with telephone issues (esp if the judge declares no phone contact)? Would it be better if I started a new thread on that topic?

[eomaia]

How much contact have you had with the bio parents? She's old enough now that she's not going to forget what her parent's full names are or where they live. Even if the judge orders absolutely no contact, how long will that stop her from using a friend's cell phone or looking up her parents online? Maybe 4 years, tops? Meanwhile, she's going to have an emotional reaction to being forcibly kept out of contact with her parents. Also, abscent parents who she is not allowed to have any contact with will likely seem about 1000% cooler than the people who are actually parenting her.

[mrsred]

Originally Posted by KT08

Bio mom and dad very manipulative in regards to telling HG that she is coming home. Every court date, they tell her: you are coming home today. Of course, they have been wrong every court date.....

At the supervised visitation yesterday (I was there), they talked to HG about the new private school they have enrolled her in, blah blah. This from a couple who had their phone disconnected last week.... All lies and manipulation.

I am surprised at a supervised visit that they allow the parents to talk about this type of thing. When we had our foster daughter, prior to TPR the birthparents were not allowed to talk to her about her coming home or anything like that. If they did, the person supervising would quickly redirect. If they continued to press it they could (and did) cut the visits short.
Whether the plan is TPR or RU, it is not fair to build up hopes in a child that may or may not be realized.

[EZ2Luv]

You have gotten some great advise. I hope and pray that if HG comes into your care the transition oes as painless as possible.
I commed you for realizing what is happening. I think many times the bios wish and have so much hope that the kids will come home that they find themselves essentially lying to the kids.

What really brought me to respond is that I am shocked at how they get around sneak contact. Well not shocked, because this is one of the reasons I am on the fence about some relatie placements. Just this past winter as situation almost identical happened here in MA where the gparents had custody and the kids were staying with the bios and lying . It end up costing 2 beautiful liitle girl's their lives because the biomom had a falling out with her lover and the lover set the biosmoms house on fire while the kids were on a sneak sleepover.

I wonder if CPS is aware that this girl is having these secret/sneak overnights and contact with bios and if not why isn't anyone saying or doing anything about it?

There is a reason these kids come into care and sneak visits are like enabling and giving the bios no reason to work their case plan. Why should they? They get the kids whenever they want and probably look at foster care as a baby sitter or a time out from real parenting.

I am sorry to derail your thread, but this really bothers me. You obviously are aware of this arrangement so I am sure others are too. Not to mention, this is not helping the little girl to have any kind of reality and is only going to compound things if she is placed with you or someone else who has no intentions of sneak contact.

EZ

[Boulderbabe]

I think that you should ask the GAL to come and explain to Honey Girl that the JUDGE has ordered that there be no telephone contact. Let her know that if her parents call, they will have to answer to the JUDGE for this. (Keep saying THE JUDGE so that she knows it is not your decision).

You could also tell her that it is up to the judge whether or not she goes home. If her bmom and bdad cannot follow the judge's directions, the judge will not allow her to go home. That way, if bmom and bdad call, she will know that they are in violation of the judge's orders, and they are taking deliberate steps to ensure that she will NOT come home.

Do you have caller ID?

[KT08]

Thanks, everyone, for your considered insight. Keep it coming. It is really helpful.

DSS knows the bios break the rules, particularly in regard to sneak visitation and contact, but they do absolutely nothing about it, except write it up in the court summary as a strike against the bios.

Way back, when relative visitation was to first occur (off DSS property) and I was alarmed by the idea of bios showing up, the DSS supervisor said, "If the parents show up, the kids will tell us." I said, "Well, (Sonny Boy) won't. He's an infant. And it's not fair for (Honey Girl) to be a mandated reporter, esp since her loyalities already lie with the birthmom." Of course, birth mom did show, Honey Girl told, and nothing, absolutely nothing, happened. Relative visitation continued.

These kids have no GAL volunteer assigned to the case, if that is what ya'll mean when you say GAL. There is a GAL attorney, but he has never met the children or contacted me for info prior, during or after the hearings. I have several times requested a GAL volunteer, particularly for Honey Girl, but it falls on deaf ears. Big GAL volunteer shortage in my county, complicated by the fact that grandfather lives in a different county.

Off my soapbox and back to the present dilemma: Eomaia raised a good point and I hope he/she will post again.

Of course Honey Girl knows her bio's phone number and names. Of course, she could call them from a friend's cell phone. What she does secretly I can't really control. However, I do want to obey the judge's orders on my end and therefore do not wish to allow continued nightly phone contact (per the judge) should I take her into custody (esp after the parents are TPRed.)

I'd love to head this issue off at the pass, so if anyone has some experience dealing with the issue of phone/contact with the bios, please elaborate. I need all the help I can get!

I do have caller ID (of course!) and number blocking so that unidentified numbers can't get through. I have never called the bios from my home phone as they also have caller ID.

I have been really sheltered from this issue phone issue with Sonny Boy because he was a tiny baby when I got him and obviously could not participate in phone conversations. The bios have never called me and Sonny Boy has never asked me to call them. I do call them once a week for a quick courtesy call, but I am not required by the court or DSS to do so, as the goal is TPR.

The bios are mostly uninterested in Sonny Boy. Long story. But they are very invested in Honey Girl. So I know it will be very different dynamic to take her.

Keep the advice coming. :-)

[eomaia]

Originally Posted by KT08

Thanks, everyone, for your considered insight. Keep it coming. It is really helpful.

DSS knows the bios break the rules, particularly in regard to sneak visitation and contact, but they do absolutely nothing about it, except write it up in the court summary as a strike against the bios.

Way back, when relative visitation was to first occur (off DSS property) and I was alarmed by the idea of bios showing up, the DSS supervisor said, "If the parents show up, the kids will tell us." I said, "Well, (Sonny Boy) won't. He's an infant. And it's not fair for (Honey Girl) to be a mandated reporter, esp since her loyalities already lie with the birthmom." Of course, birth mom did show, Honey Girl told, and nothing, absolutely nothing, happened. Relative visitation continued.

These kids have no GAL volunteer assigned to the case, if that is what ya'll mean when you say GAL. There is a GAL attorney, but he has never met the children or contacted me for info prior, during or after the hearings. I have several times requested a GAL volunteer, particularly for Honey Girl, but it falls on deaf ears. Big GAL volunteer shortage in my county, complicated by the fact that grandfather lives in a different county.

Off my soapbox and back to the present dilemma: Eomaia raised a good point and I hope he/she will post again.

Of course Honey Girl knows her bio's phone number and names. Of course, she could call them from a friend's cell phone. What she does secretly I can't really control. However, I do want to obey the judge's orders on my end and therefore do not wish to allow continued nightly phone contact (per the judge) should I take her into custody (esp after the parents are TPRed.)

I'd love to head this issue off at the pass, so if anyone has some experience dealing with the issue of phone/contact with the bios, please elaborate. I need all the help I can get!

I do have caller ID (of course!) and number blocking so that unidentified numbers can't get through. I have never called the bios from my home phone as they also have caller ID.

I have been really sheltered from this issue phone issue with Sonny Boy because he was a tiny baby when I got him and obviously could not participate in phone conversations. The bios have never called me and Sonny Boy has never asked me to call them. I do call them once a week for a quick courtesy call, but I am not required by the court or DSS to do so, as the goal is TPR.

The bios are mostly uninterested in Sonny Boy. Long story. But they are very invested in Honey Girl. So I know it will be very different dynamic to take her.

Keep the advice coming. :-)

It sets you up in a bad position, of being the bad cop who keeps Mommie and Daddy Dearest away. There's no way you can compete with a fantasy, and there's too many cans of worms that can come out of that.

Thinking about it, I've known a few teenagers who had a father who gave up parental rights, but who would occasionally come up as in "You're not my REAL dad". In all of their cases, the attitude changed after a visit to the "real" dad. One's biological father that was doing really well financially, which raised the question of why he didn't do more for his older children. The others' fathers' had never really settled down, one was a homeless drunk. In all cases, seeing the sperm donors made the kids realize that there was a reason that this guy was not part of their lives, and that their REAL dad was the guy who provided for them and set limits and got yelled at.

Maybe some contact (with rules/limits) is actually better than none, even after TPR.

[stevenstwin]

Originally Posted by eomaia

It sets you up in a bad position, of being the bad cop who keeps Mommie and Daddy Dearest away. There's no way you can compete with a fantasy, and there's too many cans of worms that can come out of that.

Thinking about it, I've known a few teenagers who had a father who gave up parental rights, but who would occasionally come up as in "You're not my REAL dad". In all of their cases, the attitude changed after a visit to the "real" dad. One's biological father that was doing really well financially, which raised the question of why he didn't do more for his older children. The others' fathers' had never really settled down, one was a homeless drunk. In all cases, seeing the sperm donors made the kids realize that there was a reason that this guy was not part of their lives, and that their REAL dad was the guy who provided for them and set limits and got yelled at.

Maybe some contact (with rules/limits) is actually better than none, even after TPR.

It really does depend on the situation and how emotionally healthy the child is. In the case of my fs he is NOT capable of seeing his "dad" in a realistic light. The guy is a jobless, schizophrenic alcoholic who abused and neglected his children, lost FIVE of them and never even bothered to fight to keep mine - but A. STILL thinks he is the greatest guy in the whole world, and EVERY little big of contact he has with this guy sets him back MILES. Now that he is living on his own, he's welcome dear ol' dad back with open arms, and I get to hear how "cool" and "fun" he is and how much A's friends love him. I've heard of LOTS of foster or adopted children, by the way, who have gone BACK to their bio families once they turn 18, even if the people are still sick and dysfunctional. (one that I heard about, even asked his bios to adopt him back at the age of 20!!) There is something about living with sickness and dysfunctionality for several years that makes kids susceptible to this...not the same as a child raised by a good mom and step-dad, being able to see a bio dad for what he really is.

[AmyAnne]

You can buy phone locks for the phones in your house.

[Boulderbabe]

Look, contact at age 8 and contact at age 16 are two very different things. Maybe Honey Girl will want to call her parents when she's 16. But right now, she's 8, and you can pretty much control who calls her and who doesn't.

After TPR, the bios have zero rights to contact, unless you sign some sort of open adoption agreement. So don't sign. If you think contact is a bad idea, well---it's entirely up to you what goes on after the adoption. Use your caller i.d. Don't give them your number. It sounds like Honey Girl needs a break from all the manipulation that is going on, and that bmom and bdad can't be trusted to keep their word, so perhaps for at least the first year, contact may not be in order. You can reevaluate later.