[mama-2-3]

These boys are very cute and seem normal in many ways, but they have obviously experienced violence in the past. They were pretty good for the first couple of days, but now that they are coming out of their shell a little bit, so are their problems. Ordinarily I can handle these types of behaviors (like in the classroom for example), but in my home when my kids are the ones getting yelled at and hit I am not sure I can handle it. When my 3 year old got punched in the face today by the 4 (almost 5) year old, I about lost it. It is hard not to take these behaviors personally when it is my sweet and precious little ones getting pushed around. The 3 year old foster boy seems somewhat manageable. He responds well to positive reinforcement and seems genuinely remorseful after hurting someone, but the older brother seems very manipulative and cruel. The logical part of me knows that it is not his fault, of course, but he can't stay here if this is how my kids are going to get treated.
I have never interrupted a placement before, but part of me is thinking that interupting now while they have only been here for a short time may be less traumatic for them. BUT... the other part of me knows that ALL children have potential and maybe I should just stick it out. They just got here last week, maybe the older one will see the light and start behaving. UGH... but what if he doesn't. It breaks my heart to think that I am putting my own family (especially my two little ones) at risk for trauma (both physical and emotional). What should I do?
Here I was so excited to finally get some boys in this house and now I am really contemplating interrupting.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[aedems]

No help, just hugs!! This was the biggest fear, and still is, for me. I am such a "do-gooder" that I want to fix all of the kids, but I have to worry "differently" about the ones already in my home. I hate to say "worry more" because I don't think that is true. I just think I have to worry about my kids to know when they need a break and worry about my foster children enough to know when they need help.

[hrisme]

It's a hard call, but the needs of your current children need to take priority over the needs of your foster children. It's also not going to help your foster boys if you get overwhelmed & can't provide the care they need. That being said, it may be worth holding out a few more weeks to see if things improve. However, you probably need to instigate LOSS (line of sight supervision) at all times, and that can be exhausting. If that's not effective, you may need to enforce the three foot rule, or even the good old "holding the belt loop" approach until he can be safe with himself and others. All loving and supportive, of course, not punitive--"I care about you & know it is hard for you when you feel angry inside, I want to stay close to you so I can help you with those feelings".

It's not his "fault" that he had experiences that led to these behaviors, but he does have to take responsibility for his actions. And teaching him to do so at five is going to, hopefully, be easier than teaching him at fifteen. If you don't have the resources to help him learn self control (and there is nothing wrong with admitting that!) it's best for him to move on to another placement that has more resources.

Just my .02, from someone who has never BTDT! So take it for what it's worth.

[tvs4]

I think if you really feel that your children are at risk of being injured or in any way harmed (more than what normal siblings will do to each other occasionally) then I think you should have the boys moved.

If you think the behaviors are within a "normal" range of kidhood then I think you need to immediately tighten up on that little guy and have a rule with him that he must be within line of sight at all times, that he is not allowed to play with the other children unsupervised until he earns it. I would tell him exactly what you are doing and why - in a kid friendly way - like I know you get angry and you don't control your hands so you have to stay with me - etc. I'd clearly lay down the rules with everyone in the house. NOBODY HITS EVER! I'd also consider alarms on doors or other ways to monitor him at night and other times of the day too. He is likely an angry, scared little boy who was conditioned to lash out - he saw it, it was done to him, etc. So, he is going to exhibit those behaviors but that doesn't mean you can excuse it. I'd give him some other activities to do when he feels angry or like he wants to hit - like jump up and down, or something else that is less distructive.

Are the kids getting any therapy? I'd probably advocate for that as well and try to find out more about his past and relationships with the adults in his life.

just some ideas but if you do think the other children are at risk then I think your forced to ask them to be moved.

[jbee]

i know little ones can be just as bad, but at least he isn't a teenager and way bigger...that's what i worry about here, thank goodness we have non violent fk now.
we had some brothers, but they just hit each other or tried for dh, never towards my bios.
no advice, just good luck and i hope it gets better. hopefully he is so young you can help him turn things around.

[Robbin]

Since these are small children, I would try for a bit longer before you ask them to be removed.

We used a token system (with poker chips). Every hour (or two) the kids would get a token that they could use to "buy" a special treat (small amount of candy like 5 M&M's or tootsie roll or Smarties, etc.). You can use a timer, or "pay out" on the hour. ALL the kids earned tokens, even the ones who didn't have a problem with aggression. They could earn a token if there was no aggression. Aggression resulted in time-out, loss of token, and LOTS of attention to the one who was hurt. At the end of the day, they could also cash in for extra privileges according to how many tokens they earned
(5/5 might get 15 min later bedtime extra tv time, or extra story, etc.) so they could still get that long-term reinforcement and not feel like one mess up ruins the whole day.

[Scrapsathome]

I wouldn't recommend the LOTS of attention to the victim idea. Then you get the kid who intentionally provokes the other one to get him to erupt so that the "victim" can receive attention.

Jess

[AmyAnne]

I agree with the idea of rewarding the positive behaviors as opposed to punishing the negatives.

We had a "bead" system in our house when my son (then 7) moved in and it worked quite well

[xxsurroundedbyxy]

I would hold out a little longer. Make sure rules are posted and you read them LOTS (we have them on fridge and they are read before breakfast, before lunch, and after supper for the first few weeks). We do time-outs and have rewards for good behavior.

HOWEVER...I have disrupted a placement. The child was also 5 and he could be manipulative and had anger management issues as well as refused to share his things while expecting everyone else to share with him. He did not act out against my 2 yr old until after we had requested he be moved. His anger was directed at my 14 yr old. I guess he thought the 14 yr old would take it (which he did because he is a kind young man who would not fight with someone 1/3 of his age). It stressed my 14 yr old out though to be constantly under attack and not be able to lash back .....so he retreated and stayed in his room ALOT.

Our FS anger issues arose with time and his frustration over being in care and his mother's lack of visits and contact. He was smart and understood that his chances of going home were not good with the way things were going. We had him for 7 months and only the last two were hard. That last month we made the request and they waited until the last minute to find a new home and gave him no transition time. So if you DO decide to disrupt, give the CW some time to find a suitable home and request transition time (but don't expect it). You will need to give a firm date that they will need to be moved by or the CW will drag feet.

I finally said "At no time will someone else's child's needs come before the needs of the children I brought into this world." I had said something similar to myself while teaching and finding myself working all hours of the night on lesson plans and grading papers and spending little time with my kiddos..........so I just applied it here as well.

I loved this FS, but I am foster only and he was going to need an adoptive home as things were unfolding. He was going to be going to a new family eventually anyway BUT my boys would always be in THIS family and were depending upon me to make their home a safe haven that they WANTED to come home to.

We open our homes to other children in need, but we never need to let them make our own children miserable in their own home or dread coming into their own house.

Good Luck! PM if you want to vent some more.

Kim

[sethsmommy]

Robbin--

I like your short-term and long term ideas. I just wonder when you give the kids the candy? I am assuming not every hour they get the token. Does it take so many tokens to get the candy?

Thanks

[anniesr]

I would encourage you to seek help from the caseworker immediately. It isn't unusual for boys to punch each other and roughhouse and in some cultures this is viewed as being pretty normal. However, most foster children (even babies) have witnessed some level of violence that your children have not experienced. This isn't a level 'playing field' here and it isn't game. Lots of time, positive interaction, modeling, nurturing and possibly play therapy is needed to help the newcomers understand how to interact with other children in the home and how a healthy family operates. I hope it works.

What I hope does NOT happen is that the brothers are spit into different homes with you keeping the younger one and someone else taking the older one. All too frequently siblings (I've seen this with boys particularly) are placed in a home with other children when the boys have deep needs related to attachment and nuturing. These needs may come out in aggression and the foster parents cannot handle them along with the relatively normal needs of other children in the household. If you decide you cannot parent these boys and your other children then the best you can do is work closely with the caseworker to find a better placement (preferably without other children) where the brothers will not be disrupted again. However, please try not to let them become shuffled through the system similar to what happens with so many other little boys.

Best of luck,
Anne

[mama-2-3]

Update -
I have to interrupt placement. My 3-year-old son almost lost his eye this morning when one of the boys stabbed him hard with a pencil. We ended up spending the morning at the Urgent Care. I feel very guilty for having to disrupt, but I don't feel like I have any choice. These boys need to be in a home with no other small children.

[xxsurroundedbyxy]

Originally Posted by anniesr

If you decide you cannot parent these boys and your other children then the best you can do is work closely with the caseworker to find a better placement (preferably without other children) where the brothers will not be disrupted again. However, please try not to let them become shuffled through the system similar to what happens with so many other little boys.

Best of luck,
Anne

This is SO not the foster parent's job. You can make recommendations on what you feel the child needs, but from experience and others who share on here, I can say that they rarely listen. They are swamped and just move them wherever they can with the person who says yes first. The OP will have no control over whether these boys are "shuffled through the system" or split. I requested that my FS be placed in a home with no other children or maybe 1 other child close in age or slightly older and the laughed at me. I believe their exact words were "If a house like that existed, we would have tried there first. That will not happen as our homes in this county are full." He went to two homes for overnight "trial" stays before landing in the third home who said they would take him. The first home, he was child number #8. The second home, he was child number #10. SO obviously, they did not take my recommendations into consideration or that of his therapists. They just started calling and the shuffle began. I had no control over it. In the home he was moved to and stayed in, he is child #4-7 depending upon when I call or visit. We have kept in contact and actually, he spent the night with us last night. He is having some of the same problems in his new home and we have offered respite but no more than once a month as that is all our boys can handle of him.


Mama-2-3:
Do not feel guilty. You have to protect your own children while being available to help other children. Not every placement will be a good fit and you knew this one was not early on. Give the CW as much info as you can about what you have learned about these two boys and pray that the CW will listen and find them a more suitable placement. I will say a prayer for you, for them, and for your poor little one who will now be a little leery of new kids in the house....I know because my 2 yr old is now.


Kim