[tylind23]

I am completely at my wit's end with my foster son. I posted earlier in the week that he was upset because I wouldn't buy him some new skates when he hasn't been taking care of his stuff. Anyway, I have no clue what's going on with him, but his attitude has massively spiraled out of control in the last few days. Yesterday we had to go to Target on our way home to get some household things (he's out of school and summer program doesn't start until next week so no choice but to take him with me). Before we go in, I remind him we are only buying these 2 household items and nothing else. Well, in the store he asks me to buy him some accessories for his PSP. I told him no. He screams at me in the aisle that I never buy him anything. Then as we are waiting to check out, he starts whining about me not buying him anything and I reminded him that he had to show he could take care of his things before I was going to buy him new toys. He starts screaming at me to shut up and leave him alone. The woman in front of me turned around and chewed him out for being so disrespectful to me. That got him quiet, but his attitude just got worse and worse all evening. Finally, I told him he was losing his electronics for at least a week and took his satelite box, laptop, IPOD, PS2, PSP, and portable DVR out of his room. He goes completely ballistic, screaming, telling me he hates it here and he hates me, I'm just being mean and trying to torture him, I'm not the boss of him, he doesn't have to do anything I say and I can't make him do anything. He would not stop his tirade. I finally left him in his room and went in the other room to break down bawling. It was just so emotional because I was hoping to adopt and then found out yesterday that they are looking to move him with an aunt (he knows nothing about this). So already an emotional day and then the whole "I hate you, I hate it here" thing really got to me, even though I know he didn't really mean it.

Well, he finally goes to sleep, I check on him to make sure he hasn't climbed out his window and finally get ready to go to bed myself around 11:45pm. Then the dog attacked our kitten and I had to wake him up to rush the kitten to the emergency animal hospital. We finally get back home at about 1am. He is in a great mood, starts telling me that he's made up his Christmas list already and asking me if I'll buy him this and that for Christmas. All in all, everything seems fine. I tell him goodnight and that I'll see him in the morning. He very calmly tells me that I won't because he's running away. He says he's already packed his bag (which he hadn't). I told him I hoped he didn't run away because I love him and would miss him terribly if he ran away. He said that he had made up his mind and nothing I could say would change it. I told him that I hoped he did change his mind and I hoped that he knows I love him and want him here. So, I stayed up half the night checking on him to make sure he wasn't gone.

I ended up taking a personal day off from work today (he had a Dr. appointment this morning and then we had to take the kitten to the regular vet for a check-up) and I was sooo exhausted. Most of the day went okay. He was in a decent mood and took a nap. Then it gets closer to bedtime and I tell him that he needs to pick up all his stuff, clean his room, and put away all the stuff he got out. He refuses and gets an attitude. Finally slams his bedroom door in my face and then blocks the door so that I can't get in.

Anyway, I have no clue what's going on with this kid. The only thing I know that has changed in his routine is that school is now out and he had a sleepover last weekend to celebrate the end of school. He has no clue about possibly moving to his aunt's house and hasn't had a visit with his mom since that was decided, so can't have been told about it yet.

I have no idea what to do at this point. Grounding doesn't phase this kid at all. He couldn't care less when he is upset and then just whines every day until the grounding is over, or gets an attitude all over again whenever he doesn't get to do what he wants because of the grounding. Plus, his 2 best friends in the neighborhood are both gone on vacation right now, so grounding doesn't mean much. I'm hoping eventually the loss of his electronics will be a deterent, but right now that doesn't seem to help either. His behavior is getting worse each day. I just don't know what else to do with him right now. This child absolutely shuts down whenever anyone asks about his feelings, what's going on with him, etc. so I can't figure out what is causing this change in his behavior. I know we will eventually make it passed this, especially after a week or so of being grounded and not having his electronics, but I'm just not sure how much more of this I can take right now.

Any suggestions? I thought about doing the whole supernanny time out thing, but he is so defiant, he wouldn't go and wouldn't sit there and at his age, I can't just pick him up and carry him or restrain him to get him to do a timeout. In the past when I've told him to go to his room he has even flat out refused and walked out the door to go outside and play. How do I get him to do what I tell him to do and be more respectful? Please help.

[tylind23]

Oh, and I'm just crazy enough that I accepted placement of a 12 year old girl. She's coming on Monday. Of course, I accepted the placement before the attitude got as bad as it has. She "has some anger issues and can be defiant". I must be a glutton for punishment. Makes me wonder how I'm going to manage with two of them. Maybe having another kid in the house getting to do fun things will make him want to earn his privileges back too. No idea.

[Withay]

Looking at the placement date, I would guess that this is the 'real' boy coming out. The honeymoon is officially over. Sounds like 'Skater' is getting comfortable and feels that he can show more of his 'true' personality. It can also mean that he trusts you to not hurt him when he disobeys. Tough to deal with, but does show progress.

Have you tried removing everything, and I do mean everything, except the mattress and a blanket from his room? Tell him he can 'earn' his things back by checking the attitude at the door and by doing as asked without complaining. I have heard that this can work wonders.

Hope that having the girl there will help things.

[mrstkg1]

I agree, everything has to go. Including his bedroom door if he is using it against you. It does come off the hinges you know.

As far as his whining when he's grounded, you have to totally ignore it and I mean totally. He's gets you going with all of that and he knows it.

It sounds like you are really in the trenches, take care and know that you are doing the right thing. He is not supposed to feel happy when he's being disciplined, you are doing a good job.

Also, just my opinion, I would not engage him verbally. That is to say, set the rules and when he doesn't abide, silently go to the kitchen to a list of his privileges and mark it off. For example, you could tell him in advance, at 7:00 at night, you will go around the house and pick up all the things you have gotten out. You can then set an alarm or have him learn to set it to remind him. He gets a reminder if he doesn't have it done in a reasonable amount of time, then go to the kitchen and mark something off. I know that especially, if we would leave things out overnight, that thing went bye-bye.

Really important, when he threatens to run away, don't say anything. No assurances, nothing and don't sit up all night. This kid is playing you. Could he really run away, of course, but then he would need to suffer the logical consequences of that.

When he protests, say nothing, when he yells and goes crazy, sit down and read a book, or call a friend. Seriously, this kid is trying to get you going and sometimes it works.

If he physically bullies you, then you must do something, like bring in reinforcements.

Of course, you are there with him and you know him best, I wouldn't assume to know exactly how to tell you to help this child, but these are some of the things that have worked for me in the past.

And, you might want to rethink adding another child, just now, until things settle out a bit. Good luck and let us know how it's going.

[meshsgrl]

sounds like my first placement.... NOTHING worked!! SO I ahve no advice other then to be consistent. I will say a prayer for you!!!

[tvs4]

I would guess that part of his acting out is a few things 1) school is over and change of routine - which can throw off any child and 2) he probably does suspect something is "up" even if he hasn't been told about the move yet.

With some children you can use a tactic that gives you control of the tantrum you know he is going to throw. The trick is to be calm and sincere - you don't want to sound patronizing. So, if you are going to Target and you KNOW he is going to throw a fit because you won't buy him something. Before you leave for the store (or in the car on the way) say very calmly and sincerely: " we are going to Target to get X. We will not buy Y for you today. I know that makes you uspset so please yell and scream about it now while I have time." then wait and watch his reaction. While in the store if he acts up again I'd say something like " I know when I say "no" you get angry and upset, so go ahead and have a fit, I want to see it". The trick is to say it without sounding snide you must sound convincenly sincere ( and be ready to possibly endure a fit in the store with on lookers. If he does start to have a fit - which I'm going to bet he won't - then I'd calmly watch him do it.) You might have to practice in a mirror to control your facial expressions.

By doing that you totally shift the power of the tantrum away from him and to you. you "control" it.

I agree with the running away I'd not engage him too much in that. Maybe say something neutral like "that would be an interesting choice".

As far as what is in his room: satelite box, laptop, IPOD, PS2, PSP, and portable DVR - personally I think that is way too much stuff for a kid and he'd loose it all until he could earn it back with some better behavior. But make it a very concrete system for him "like 2 hours of good behavior earns 5 min of video games". Detail for him exactly what behavior makes him loose minutes too.

good luck! he sounds like a sad little guy.

[CaddoRose]

I can only second what Mrskg1 said. Ditto to everything right down the line. Explain to him that HIS behavior has caused the following things to happen: he is losing all his possessions and can only get them back when he begins to act like a responsible and respectful person. Only He can control what happens.

Write out a list of exactly what he has to do. Have him sign it. If he won't, read it to him. Don't raise your voice. Don't get into a verbal fight with him about it. Say it matter-of-factly and that's it. Post it where everybody can see it. If he has any response, just let him know that he can feel that way if he wants to, but it won't help him get his things back.

Putting things in writting can really help because he can't come back later and say he didn't know he had to do something. If it's on the list, then there's no dispute about it. Put everything on paper that you want him to do, including chores, the way he talks to you or others and bedtime, etc.

You need to set up a chart of what he has to do, so he and you can see his progress. You can use stickers or stars to mark off the items he is successful with. Don't give everything back right away. He really has to show he has changed and is willing to follow the rules long term(how ever long that is).

Start off by allowing him to get items back slowly at first. Foe example, if he doesn't yell this week, he gets his bed back. (yeah, remove everything except a mattress, sheets and a pillow). No electronic toys though. He really has to show he can do it to get those.
Maybe next week he can have some clothes back(you decide what clothes he wears everyday.)

This can be a long process, but having known two families that did this, it does work. You might be even more crazy for a week or so, but as a parent you can't allow this type of behavior to continue. He needs to learn some self-respect and control over himself. That's really what this is about.

[tylind23]

Thanks for all the responses. I think I will have to remove his things from his room and make him earn them back. Last night when I told him he needs to clean up the mess in the garage he told me that I'm just looking for ways to torture him now. I'm thinking that not only does he need to lose his stuff, but that maybe he needs some extra chores for a few weeks so that he doesn't get too bored without anything to play with.

[Lorraine123]

You have been given some very good advice. One other thing I find with my extremely deviant daughter - give choices. Deviant and opposition children have a hard time being told exactly what to do. For example, I would say "You need to clean the garage and scrub the kitchen floor. Which do you want to do first?" or "Do you want to pick up all your stuff before or after your shower tonight?" Of course, any good ODD kid will refuse to choose, ask for something different, etc. If my daughter doesn't choose, I choose for her. And of course, as soon as I decide, she lets me know that she wanted the other choice. LOL But its too late. Be sure both choices are acceptable for you because they have an uncanny way of knowing which one you hope they will choose and then choosing the other.

I agree that he has a lot of stuff in his room. I think its too much for an 11 year old. Strip his room until he is deserving of his stuff. He needs to learn that we all earn our things, nothing is just given. He appears to have serious entitlement issues. He needs to learn that now.

As for running away - I tell my daughter that if she leaves the property without permission, I will call the police. I will not go look for her, I will not drag her back home. And, while she is away, the rest of the family rewards themselves with pizza, ice cream or something, because she has inconvenienced us and we need to pay ourselves back. That doesn't necessarily stop the running away, but it shows her that it is HER problem, not mine. She gets the consequences, not me.

He needs to learn that he is responsible for his actions. Bad choices affect him and him alone.

[mrstkg1]

Lorraine123,

I actually laughed out loud, when I read about the rest of the family getting treats, that is great... I'll have to remember that one.

[EandDmom]

I am so printing these off and keeping them for future reference.. thanks so much for these great ideas everyone

[sethsmommy]

woo hoo...you guys are good...

[xxsurroundedbyxy]

Originally Posted by tvs4

As far as what is in his room: satelite box, laptop, IPOD, PS2, PSP, and portable DVR - personally I think that is way too much stuff for a kid and he'd loose it all until he could earn it back with some better behavior.

I agree.

We made this mistake with our first placement as well. Because I, personally, do not know what it feels like to be neglected I will not pretend to know how some of these children feel or think.

BUT, I have seen that many children who are neglected and then get many material belongings start to show a sense of entitlement and there is no end to what they will ask for and expect from you. They seem to become obsessed with what they can get from you and often hoard their possessions and will not/can not share with others. Ex. making out Christmas list ALL YEAR LONG. You become a means to gain more "things" rather than a person with feelings and attachment becomes harder. So the behavior in Target sounds very familiar.

He has figured out that you care very much for him and so he is using the "running away" as a type of blackmail to get what he wants. I agree with the others that you should basically ignore it and his tantrums.

So I would slowly let him earn these back and let him have only one in his room at a time. He doesn't need to feel that he has all of them at his disposal all the time.

I now make it very clear that these items belong to ME but that I am so happy to share with them. I never let them feel like the items are theirs to do with what they want or it becomes a problem.

Same thing with my bios. My 14 yr old may have full use of his cell phone, but since I paid for it and continue to pay the monthly bill for the use of it, it is my cell phone and can be taken back at any time.

Kim

[Howdy]

Have you read books about normal 11 yr old behavior? I don't know how 11 yr old boys act, but the books I've read about girls that age make me feel much better about my daughter. The books indicate that perfectly normal 11 yr old girls will be rude to their mothers, not really hear what you tell them, make lots of mistakes that you thought they were old enough not to make, see everything as totally good or totally bad, etc. When my daughter is being very exasperating, I tell her she is acting like an 11 yr old. That way I can let her know I don't like her behavior, while not making her feel bad (because if she feels bad about herself she behaves much worse).

Good luck, that is too bad he will be leaving, I hope he won't think it happened because he was bad.

Are you finding good things that he does that you can make positive comments about? I've read, tho might not be remembering it exactly, that we need to say four good things to our kids for each one bad thing. That is SO hard, I am afraid I am not meeting the positive comment quota.

[mrsred]

I see you have alreadyy gotten the advice of what I was going to say, clear his stuff out. He has to earn things back, one at a time, with the electronic stuff coming last. If you have a linen closet or something that you can put a locking door knob on, that makes a great place to store things.
Since, you had to learn this the hard way with your foster son, I hope you take this approach now with the new foster daughter you are getting.
Post your rules and expectations clearly in your home. Be sure that nothing is ambiguous or open for interpretation. When the kids can go a specified lenght of time following rules and expectations, they are rewarded with gaining a privelige. If they blow it after getting something, it can always go back under lock and key.