[takingtheplunge]

Hello. We are distant family of someone whose kid is in the system. B/c that person kept it a secret for so long, we were told if TPR, family would not get a chance to adopt since bonding has not occured. The kid would go to FM.

As it stands, they are done w/ case plan and got their kid back on ext. visits until next court date. But family worries if she can really handle it long term. She is willing to relinquish to family for the long term care of the child b/c she knows she can always see the child. How long after she gets the kid back does she have to wait before she can relinquish, assign guardianship or private adopt? She fears that CPS will sabotage the court date if they think she is considering relinquishment.

[Kat-L]

Originally Posted by takingtheplunge

She fears that CPS will sabotage the court date if they think she is considering relinquishment.

She's probably right so advise her NOT to say anything to CPS about relinquishing. Once she has custody, if you are going to adopt the child, you should arrange for a private attorney to handle the adoption and keep CPS out of it.

[RobinKay]

get your own attorney NOW. this is exactly what happened to us, and the fp were determined to keep the child due to the long time they had him while ICPC was being done.

Seriously, talk with an attorney now, both you and birth mother together. it's expensive, but it can make the difference. try to do a private adoption and yank the rug out from under CPS

[takingtheplunge]

Thanks for the advice. I am willing to pay for attny for private adoption. However, I don't know when the bio parent will have legal rights back to assign custody. The bio parent just had their 12 month review and judge gave them the kid back on "extended visit" until the next court case in July where they want to review progress. Then there is one more hearing in August that I don't know what it's for. I think it's the final final review. Does that mean that parent has to wait until August to have right to private adopt through attny, or can they do it now since kid is with them on "extended visits." Secondly, during this extended visit, can we see the kid daily and bond with them. Thus, if bio parent screws up between now and August, then could we make a better case that the kid should go to us verses the original foster parents.

[FullQuiverMamma]

Maybe the foster family could agree to keep up relations with you in the event they regain custody? Is the child attached to the foster family? If so, that may be the way to go. ??

[Howdy]

This sounds so very sad for the child.

I think you should visit the child a lot so that the child has an attachment to you, and also because if you don't think the mother can handle it, you can meet the needs of the child. Not allowing the child to be neglected or abused should be the paramount concern.

How old is the child and how long was the child with the FM?

[Hadley2]

I'm sorry if this comes across harshly, but I am very surprised by your words and hope to be able to extend your thinking a little beyond your adult relative's cry for help.

"She is willing to relinquish to family for the long term care of the child b/c she knows she can always see the child."

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. She cannot always see the child again, at least she shouldn't be allowed to unless her seeing the child benefits the child and that benefit outweighs any harm seeing her does to the child. No adult, relative or otherwise, who adopts a child should EVER make that kind of promise of direct contact to a first parent, outright or implied.

DH and I are fostering and adopting a relative. We were already parents, and believe firmly that the first, most absolute and sacred promise a parent makes is to their child: "we will keep you safe, we will provide for your needs--physical, mental, emotional--always and forever, no matter what." That promise is made at birth, that promise is made at adoption. NOWHERE in that promise is there room for "and we will sacrifice you as a favor to other adults."

We came into this because of a belief in the responsibility and connectedness of family. But it was the child's need for connection to us and the rest of the extended family that motivated us, not any consideration for the parents. While we cared about them, we would never make life decisions for a child based on what adults want.

You are talking about getting to know this child solely so that you can claim a relationship later--if you haven't wanted to get to know this child before or don't want to know the child better because you already hold him/her in your heart, then faking an interest now doesn't make much sense. If you are successful, you will be raising a child as your own for many years not because you want to have that child in your life and fulfill his/her needs but because you chose to cater to the wants of a dysfunctional adult. I would be afraid that if you did that, the child would suffer greatly--as would you, because resentment would surely follow on all sides.

This child probably has special needs, many of which you may not know about, and the biggest special need he/she has is the need for protection from the people who harmed him/her. This is not about judging people bad or good--it is about recognizing facts about harm done, intentionally or not.

If you hold this child in your heart, if you have the kind of family love and belief in bond that you understand how important that connection to your family, that knowledge that family is the caring cradle, will be to the child as he/she grows up, if you are ready to be this child's parent or extended family--with all the responsibilities those roles carry--then by all means pursue a relationship with the child and try to cultivate a relationship with the cw and fps.

But please, really listen and learn as much as you can about what this child needs, and keep your focus clearly and only on that, not on what your relative wants.

If I've misread your post and intentions, I am very, truly sorry. I know, however, how easy it is to get caught up in the adult relationships and how quickly the child's real interests can get minimized or dismissed. The truth is, if you go forward, you may have to be willing to end or greatly close down the adult relationship for the child's and/or your family's sake--so if you're not there for the child, well, that would be a pretty lonely, sad place to end up.

Either way, try to remember, too, that the foster system can actually be a great resource for the children and families--the best thing we ever did for ourselves and our child was get educated in the foster care system and become licensed.

I hope things work out well for this child and your family.

[RobinKay]

Hadley2

Your words are so true! I responded with the assumption that the relatives wanted to keep this child with the family--wanted to commit to the child.

You are right that such an important decision is not automatic, not about the adults. What is best for this child-that is the primary question to guide everyone's actions.

But, if the relatives are doing this for love of this child and the family, they do need to move now and get an attorney.

[takingtheplunge]

you said " You are talking about getting to know this child solely so that you can claim a relationship later--if you haven't wanted to get to know this child before or don't want to know the child better because you already hold him/her in your heart, then faking an interest now doesn't make much sense. If you are successful, you will be raising a child as your own for many years not because you want to have that child in your life and fulfill his/her needs but because you chose to cater to the wants of a dysfunctional adult. I would be afraid that if you did that, the child would suffer greatly--as would you, because resentment would surely follow on all sides."



This is the problem with forums. Tone and intent if often misread, but I do appreciate your comments because they make me think about how I write; I know your feedback is well intended.

I don't want to get to know the child soley to get her. Simply, CPS is using "bonding" as a reason to shut family out.

I wasn't allowed to see the baby much because the parent first delayed telling the family when he was taken, then when I did contact CPS, CPS would not return my calls for months (I have documentation and everything). Secondly, while in foster care, the bio parent invited me on a couple of visits so that I could meet with our great niece. Sadly, foster mom told me that I should not be there and that she would tell CPS b/c visit was only supposed to be for bio parent. I have been locked out of building a relationship for several reasons: delay in bio parent stating what happened, lack of return calls from CPS, subtle threats from foster mom. My interest in this child is not fake!

Secondly, there is nothing greatly wrong with the living bio parent per se, so I don't know why you would say it is not in the child's best interest to see them if adopted by family (us). In fact, CPS advised the foster mom to offer "open adoption" because CPS doubted that TPR would really go through.

The father, who was the bad news element in this case, is dead. No more. Mom fully loves the child but she had problems at first coping and through some bad caretaking decisions got the kid taken away. She has now gone to all parenting classes, went to therapy, tested neg. for drugs, got a job and a place to live. You should see her and the toddler play together. It's beautiful. She wants child back verses letting it live in a foster home. There are many concerns about the foster home that I can't mention b/c it would reveal too many specifics. I do believe Foster mom is good/nice person deep down, but there are 10 really good reasons I would not want my kid to be raised there either.

Needless to say, bio mom feels extended family would be better long term care takers for the child. This is not our decision for her; it's hers. She told CPS if TPR, she wanted us to have it, but CPS said no, it would go to foster home b/c of "bonding".

So, she finished her case plan and has the little one back in her home on an "extended visit" or something like that; she has two more follow-up review hearings. I don't when when she will get full official custody.

Yes, we are seeing the baby now that she's back. But per CPS, we are not allowed to baby sit until our fingerprints come back clean, which is silly b/c both of us already have prints on file b/c we are govt workers. Even when our prints are cleared, CPS says the baby cannot stay overnight with us. So How do I build I bond? This is why I thought maybe I should visit her daily which is somewhat intrusive to sit there in her living room; we'd rather baby sit at our house on weekends and see her at her house a couple days a week. Yes, I guess this is the fake part. I don't want to rush for force a relationship to move more quickly. Yet, I don't want to be passed over again if mom falls down before regaining custody. I truly love the child and I want to help mom care for him while I wait for her custody status to be complete and then wait for private adoption paperwork.


My question was simply this? When can she have to right to relinquish to whom she chooses?

Secondly, I realized that in the months that the mom has the kid while still on probation, there is a possibility that things could go wrong. What if mom relapses? What is mom's depression comes back? If this happens before she regains custody, will the kid go back to foster home or will family have a chance to step back in?

I am worried that if she relapses the child will be yanked out of our lives again and go back to foster mom because of the "bond" that CPS referred to.

Yes, I agree the child is truly a victim here. However, the child's bio mom loves her and we love her. Who knows, Bio mom might decide in the coming months that she doesn't want to relinquish to us; she could realize she has the strength to do this herself, and we have suggested that on several occasions. Personally, I know I could never relinquish my kid, however, I haven't also gone through, witnessed and seen the crap that she has been through. Raising a baby is also expensive and since she is working, she won't get government aide, yet she doesn't really make enough to raise the child. Even though we offered to help her with some day care expenses, she still sees limits to her caring for the child long term. So, she is (currently) seeing it as in the child's best interest to hold it together long enough so that she can private adopt to family.

[Hadley2]

I understand, and I am sorry if I mistook your meaning. It is certainly true that while some state agencies look immediately for a relative (either as they should or with an eye to "dumping"), there are cws who, out of preconceived notions of apples not falling far from trees, will avoid family and block family.

As for how long, it should be in the case plan--it should say when they expect the goal to be achieved or supervision to end. The first mother should, by law, have a copy of the case plan approved by the court. That said, I wouldn't assume that when that date comes and goes that she automatically has custody. Usually there is another case plan review before the court releases custody back to the parent.

The thing about seeing the first mother is not that it is a given that the child shouldn't; if openness can be achieved in a way that is healthy and beneficial for the child, then great. My caution is to not ever let it be a "promise" or something the first mother views as a "right" or "family obligation." In our experience, the adults, whose problems are rooted in addictions and illnesses for which they are not at "fault" but which still pose dangers for the child involved, tend not to understand that what they want is not necessarily what is best for the child. Actually, in our experience, they are simply unable to separate the two concepts. Then there is the pressure they bring to bear--"we're family, why are you being so mean?"--and the pressure they enlist others to bring--"why can't we all be together on a holiday? What's the harm?"

In other words, setting boundaries from the get-go and maintaining them has been one of the hardest and sometimes most painful parts of this journey. Actually loving and caring for the child, even with all her issues, is far easier than dealing with the adults.

Good luck to you and your family. Stepping up is a good thing, something we really believe in, but know from personal experience that it must be stepping for the child relative, not the adult. Please do keep posting, this is a great place for support (and sometimes unwanted advice

[Kat-L]

Originally Posted by takingtheplunge

I truly love the child and I want to help mom care for him while I wait for her custody status to be complete and then wait for private adoption paperwork.


My question was simply this? When can she have to right to relinquish to whom she chooses?

I would get a lawyer right away rather than wait for the next couple of hearings. Unless your niece falls apart, they will eventually move the baby back with her. The bond between the baby and her foster mom is important. However, if at all possible, the baby is SUPPOSED to go with family over the foster family.

I'm a foster mom. If family shows up right away, the child should go with the relative. If someone knows about a relative in foster care and declines custody and then shows up 12 months later (or at TPR), THEN I'd have a problem with it. This foster mom of your grandniece loves, loves, loves this child. And they do have a bond. Be respectful of her feelings and of the pain she will feel when the baby leaves.


I would contact an attorney ASAP

[shycar]

Ok let me get this straight. Mom is about to get child back, but family wants to get custody just in case. If mom has extended visits, she is then really close to get her child back. Why would you step in to take custody. I would wait on the lawyer, becouse what if she can parent. What if this was the push she needed the help she needed. I have seen so many parents do amazing jobs after the child is returned, they just needed help and learn to be parents. I understand she might say I dont know if I could do this, but gee every parent say that. I still say it, but that does not mean I can not parent. She is probably scared now that she is close to getting child back. I would just support her and be there for her when she needs it or when she needs a break. I would not talk about getting custody to her, becouse later that could come back that family pressured her, I have seen it happen. I would wait and see how she does, you might be surprised how good momma she can be if given by chance.

About the visit, if family showed up for visit, family was told they were not allowed. I would tell sw imidiatly, I dont know who they are and what history they have, just becouse your family does not give the right to show up without permission. Visits are court order, the Judge has to give permision for family to visit. SW and GAL usually have to agree. I had one time the Dad show up, Judge gave order that dad needed to start going to court to get his case plan before visit, he was kicked out and was not allowed to see baby. Yup no babysitting until fingerprints. My hubby works for the goverment too and they do extended backgroud check, but we still needed the fingerprints to foster. I would tell the sw you want it done that way if mom needed a break while extended visit you could help out with that. But I would not take the child for long periods of time becouse it could be said you are preventing bonding between child and parent. Just a suggestion.

Good luck, I do hope mom can parent becouse that is best choice especially since she is so close.

[tvs4]

I think to answer the original question - a parent CAN relinquish custody of a child to another person they choose (must be done legally but it can happen). Laws are different in every state and for this you must consult a lawyer for the details of how / when it could be done.

while the child is in foster care, A judge will decide if the mom gets custody back and frequently after custody is returned mom will be "supervised" by a SW for about 6 months to be sure the child is safe. If mom "relapses" during that time then yes, the child will likely be returned to foster care and may or may not be placed with the foster parents who the child was with before.

I would think in this case since the plan is headed for child to be reunited with mom that the SW isn't going to spend much time working with you as a "back up plan" because reunification seems VERY likely at this point. So, in their mind, why bother to spend time on you? Also if reunifiation was likely then they also would not likley have any reason to have a child bond with you b/c the child was going back to mom. So, I'm not all that surprised about that if the plan from the beginning has always been reunification. SWs don't often focus on "back up plans" until they REALLY need one.

If I were you, I would start the process to get my homestudy done and become a foster family. Then if the child reenters the system you can jump right in and as an approved foster home you could have the child placed in your care. If the child returns to care contact the SW (keep calling supervisors until you acutally speak to someone, send certified letters, etc) AND contact the child's lawyer to let them know that you are willing, as a relative, to have the child placed with you.

Again, I'm not trying to be negative, but I'm a bit worried that mom SAYS she will relinquish but won't. You also need to talk to a lawyer to fully understand the difference between you having legal custody of the child vs. adopting the child. Two different things with different consequences for the future of the child.


just my 2 cents

[hkolln]

Being an Aunt and future adoptive mommy to our niece I can totally understand what you are going thru.

In our case we faught to get our niece with us for 9 months because CPS was saying that bonding did occur with the FP's...but the strange thing was we were involved from about 6 wks into her being placed with them. We did eventually hire an attorney and get our niece moved to our home but not after alot of heartache on everyones part. If you decide to go ahead please do it with the childs best interest at heart....and remember the FP's love that child like their own and keep a relationship going if you can and it's positive. Do what is best for the child and not what is best for the adults. It's a hard decision and you'll get both sides giving pros and cons. In your heart you'll find the right side and go with it. Just remember to keep the child's best interest first always and you shouldn't go wrong.

If the bioparents get the child back and wish to give custody to you and you all feel it's the childs best interest then get an attorney. I'm not sure if becoming a foster parent would benefit because the child wouldn't be relinquished within the system however that could be an option if the child is put back in the system. You could at least have a license showing your are stable and licensed to take in the child.

If the FM and CPS claims bonding with the child has occured and moving them to your home would be traumatizing for the child then ask for a bonding assessement. The only thing is it could backfire on you if you don't have that attachment that the FP's currently have with the child. It's a chance you can take if you feel you have some type of bond too. Just being family doesn't mean you are the best person for parenting the child and just remember the FP's have love for that child too.