[CANICE]

Hi,
I have been fostering my Grand Niece for 18 months now.
We are going for Kin Guardianship. Has anyone here done that and what are my rights wants it takes place. There is no TPR but they say I will have full custody. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Canice

[mom2behappy]

If you take Kin Guardianship you will no longer be recieving any subsidy for the child, nor will you ever be able to adopt this child. I am not sure how important this is to you, but for the agency it is a way to escape paying the child subsidy, if you plan to continue fostering i wouldn't go for the guardianship instead i would remain her kinship fosterparent until TPR is done that way the child is still eligable for subsidy. and has the desired permanancy, this is just my oppinion hope it helps you

[CANICE]

Hi,
I was told by my case workers supervisor that I would continue to receive subsidy and medical until she is 18.

[hkolln]

We opted not for guardianship because then we can't adopt our Niece. Instead we became licensed to foster here so we can get all the resources for our Niece while in our care. We will be adopting her within 6 months of our placement hopefully. We wanted her to be in a more permanent situation. Guardianship can always be taken back, can't it? Can't the bios come back and say they want her back? Here as being adopted from the foster system our Niece gets medical til 18 and a smaller subsidy even after the adoption is finalized. She also gets 4 yrs of college education paid.

[kxl164]

I think you will receive a subsidy, but it is much lower than the foster care subisidy since it is through a different program. Here kinship placements are eligible for TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) but it is only 1/3 of the foster care rate. The medical is not quite the same either, not full Medicaid, but a subisidized Medicaid plan with co-pays.

You need to talk to the SW'ers supervior and get a clear answer on what help you will actually be getting, and I mean get names of plans and actual figures.

You also need to ask them why they are not going for TPR and would prefer to go for guardianship. With gauardianship the birthparents still regain some rights over the child, especially in regards to education.

If you adopt you have all the rights as the parent of the child, the same is not true for a gaurdian, so you need to know how they are different and what you are entitled to and what rights the birthparents retain.

Good Luck!

[vesw01]

Helen,
Sorry to disrupt the posting....just wondering where things stand with your neice?

[CANICE]

Kinship Care Alters the Permanency Planning Process

Administrators and workers reported that permanency planning is different when children are placed with kin. When children are placed with non-kin and reunification is ruled out, workers seek termination of parental rights (TPR) and then adoption. When children are placed with kin, TPR is often seen as less necessary and adoption is not viewed as the only acceptable or even preferred permanency option. In some sites, child welfare agencies often help arrange a transfer of custody from the birth parent to the kinship caregiver and consider this a permanent outcome. Allowing children to remain in long-term foster care is generally prohibited when children are placed in non-kin foster care. Although long-term foster care is discouraged for children in kinship foster care as well, administrators and workers reported that it is a common permanency outcome when children are placed with kin.

As far as the subsidy goes I will make sure I understand it before signing on the dotted line (not that it would keep us from raising her) but it would sure help with taking care of all her needs without taking from my own children. The way I understood it everything would remain the same.
Canice

[mom2behappy]

Canice what state are you in? im in NY and i am a licensed foster parent as well as a cps worker here in my state, once yo obtain guardianship you have to go to the department of social services (welfare) and apply for that for the child. you are no longer entitled to any services thru the foster care system once the child is not longer in care. so there is no way for the subsidy to continue if the child is no longer in care. if you opt not to sign for guardianship the agency will have to continue to work a plan with bios until they reach there limit and then tpr as in any other case, just because your a relative does not mean you can not adopt. you are right to speak to your caseworker also speak to the childs law guardian. if they are willing to give you guardianship the chances of the child being ru'd are very slim to none, guardianship is their permanancy plan its up to you wether you are satidfied with that plan or wether you want a final plan of adoption.

[tvs4]

My understanding is that when you are given custody of your niece without TPR it is similar to a judge giving permanant custody to one parent in a divorce case. The other parent never looses their parental rights and can fight for visitation, etc. In theory (and with enough money) the parent of your neice could fight to have the child placed back with them (just like a divorced parent can fight for custody at any point). It would be unlikely that any judge would give a child back to a parent but the parent could - if they had the resources - start a legal battle. If, however, the TPR happened then that parent would essentially have no legal standing to try and get any custody/visits with the child. Most foster care agencies are very happy to have a judge give permanant custody to a relative becuase it does save them the legal hassle of TPR. But you might want to talk to a lawyer just to be certain you understand legally what is happening and realize that at some future point the parent could challenge - at least that is my understanding. The Social workers and case workers are not lawyers and will tell you all sorts of things that they believe are true but they may be mistaken. A lawyer in your area who deals with child custody and the foster care system could probably give you the best explanation of what to expect.

good luck!

[Hadley2]

If you are in NJ, the agency is violating its own state law by jumping to guardianship before adoption. It MUST show why TPR and adoption are not in the child's best interest before going to the lower goal:

Permanency Options
Citation: Ann. Stat. § 30:4C-60

The long-term goal may include:

. Return to the parent or legal guardian
. Adoption
. Permanent placement with a relative
. Kinship legal guardianship
. Independent living
. Institutionalization
. An alternative permanent placement

The agency may consider guardianship "permanent," and close the FOSTER case, but courts do not and the CUSTODY case remains open forever. The agency will abandon you and the child. The agency will not be paying for or contributing to your defense of lawsuits brought by the birthparents or other relatives for return, visitation, right to determine association, right to determine religious affiliation, right to make educational and medical decisions, etc.

A court order giving you surrogacy rights over these things can always be challenged. Evidence you would need to show that changes are not in the child's best interest may well be sealed in the foster case and unavailable to you later when needed.

Reassurances that the parents or other relatives would most likely never win such suits don't do anything to alleviate or mitigate the damage done to your family life and finances fighting them.

Guardianship is not a legally secure placement. It is not a safe placement, either, as it leaves the door open to further abuse of the child by the parents--even if it "only" consists of harassment of the guardians and consequent disruption of the family home and life.

Only a finalized, incontestable adoption is really permanent. All the rest is baloney cooked up by state agencies trying to cheap out of their duty to kids. Caseworkers are not lawyers, their mandate is to keep families as intact as possible and close foster cases. They have no job interest in the legal, financial, physical, mental and emotional aftermath once the foster case is closed.

Last, but by no means least, please think about this from the child's point of view. While teens may not need the security of knowing they are truly and legally your child and that they can be fully protected, younger children really do. Much as our fd loves her bio parents, the physical, mental and emotional toll of an ambiguous situation has been very damaging.

Sorry to be so blunt, but of course the agency is making nice, reassuring noises to you. That is their job and many of them may well think they are doing a good thing because that is how they have been trained to think. I've been there and done that in your place, and found that we could and did finally get the agency to do the right and legal thing in the end.

Yes, getting relatives to throw away children's rights to safe, permanent and legally secure homes is common. It's common because there is still a bias toward family that says we are responsible for the parents' bad actions. It's common because it frees up foster resources for more children coming into the system. It's common because it is far cheaper for and less binding on the state.

Before making this decision, please look for adoption lawyers in your area that have worked with the state agency. Consultations are usually free, talk to a few and find out your options. Somebody is trying to fast track this child out of the system by jumping over state and federal law.

[stevenstwin]

Our foster son IS TPR'd AND in permanent kinship care. And we aren't actually blood relatives, either - we are considered kinship because we knew him before. I think it is common not to seek adoption on TPR'd kids in kinship. His younger siblings are in the same arrangement with their grandparents. and no...the birth parents in our case definitely can't ever challenge this and try to get their kids back, because their rights have been permanently terminated.

Originally Posted by CANICE

Kinship Care Alters the Permanency Planning Process

Administrators and workers reported that permanency planning is different when children are placed with kin. When children are placed with non-kin and reunification is ruled out, workers seek termination of parental rights (TPR) and then adoption. When children are placed with kin, TPR is often seen as less necessary and adoption is not viewed as the only acceptable or even preferred permanency option. In some sites, child welfare agencies often help arrange a transfer of custody from the birth parent to the kinship caregiver and consider this a permanent outcome. Allowing children to remain in long-term foster care is generally prohibited when children are placed in non-kin foster care. Although long-term foster care is discouraged for children in kinship foster care as well, administrators and workers reported that it is a common permanency outcome when children are placed with kin.

As far as the subsidy goes I will make sure I understand it before signing on the dotted line (not that it would keep us from raising her) but it would sure help with taking care of all her needs without taking from my own children. The way I understood it everything would remain the same.
Canice

[Hadley2]

stevenstwin, I think the big difference is that in your case there is a TPR and in the op's case, that is being pushed off the table. Perhaps in Canada, the grandparents who have your fson's siblings need have no fear of a legal challenge, but it's not a sure thing here in the States without a TPR. Also, where it may be much less of an issue with a teen such as your fson, especially since many states allow those over the age of 15 a lot of say in their disposition, we don't know the age of Canice's grandniece. If she is young, I think the considerations are very different.

I think the bottom line is that this agency appears to be skipping the two higher-priority goals, the first being adoption (presumably with preference for relatives), in its own laws to achieve this disposition and deny this child legal permanency. If it were me, I'd question that, and question it loudly.

[kxl164]

Originally Posted by Hadley2

If it were me, I'd question that, and question it loudly.

I totally agree. There is no reason for them not to TPR just because you are a relative.

I do not see the logic there.

Gaurdianship is not the same thing as adopting. Guardianship carries its own set of rights and resposibilites, but it is NOT total. Only adopting is having total say over the decisions for this child and they only way to retain full permanent custody.

Did the county give you any reason why they are not going for TPR other than you are a relative and they are willing to transfer Gaurdianship to you?

It may be what they do there, but why? Why not just terminate parental rights and allow the child to be adopted by your family?

If I were you I would talk to an attorney. I do not think the county is being entirely truthful with you. The monthly stipend will not be the same unless you are not getting the foster care rate now and are already getting the lower "kinship" rate. The medical coverage might not be the same. The legal authority you have as gaurdian is NOT equal to that of a parent and you need to know what the differences are.

[ca-bigsister]

FD is 15, almost 16. I would adopt, but she didn't want to be adopted because she is close to bio-great-grandmother. Bios are still alive and around (biomom is an addict, biodad is in prison). I'm considered non-related extended family member.

We did legal guardianship because then I can make all legal decisions for her. Guardianship v. adoption is also determined based on age and preferences of the children.

I get the same money per month as just foster alone.
FD's attorney did the legal paperwork for me, but it is in my name (acting as in pro per).

[CANICE]

Big Sister.
Where did you get the lawyer? Was it provided by the state or did you hire him on your own.
I am not interested in adopting. I am her Aunt and want to remain her Aunt. If her parents are unable to finish raising her then we will raise her and give her the same life we have given our own children but financially I will need help.
Canice