[AmahMama]

I have just walked in AGAIN on my oldest 2 fk's acting out sexually. 2nd time today. The sw was here this morning for her monthly visit and I explained in vivid detail what has gone on, and reported, ever since we took these children. What started it was her asking me if I wanted to send something to the Court for thier JR next month. BioM will be "graduating" from drug treatment and the cw "expects" that BioM's attny will request that ru is begun. I asked her what I should put in the letter, and began discreptions. She knows that this has been going on. She knows it totally upsets me for this to be going on in my home. She says she has "requsted in home services for them" and these services will follow them thru ru. She requested them YESTERDAY and said it usually takes a few weeks to get things rolling!!

THe point is - I've been asking for therapy for them since Sept or so. They were doing these things when they arrived. They've never stopped. They do things that I never did until after marriage!! I am horrified that the BioM and/or anyone else will think that they learned this crap here!! And with the "privacy policy" no one will ever "put the truth out there"!! We don't do visits (they are supervised at the drug treatment center) and BioM hasn't had the kids for years - cw kept picking them up at birth and taking them to a family member. So she doesn't even know them.

I'm really upset right now and it's Saturday night and no one really to call and vent to, so you guys are it!! I put the girls pj's on, changed 2 crappy diapers, pj'd the baby, and got up, put the crappy diapers in the garbage, dirty clothes in the hamper, stirred my diet microwave dinner, put it back in the microwave, turned and didn't see the kids in the playroom. This is a red flag for me!! They were all in the corner that I can't see. The oldest is a boy (#1)- he was stretched out on the floor with his pants down in front and his sisters (#2)head down there!!!!!!!! And the next youngest (#3) was right there seeing what was going on and the baby (#4) right there playing with a toy!! A few weeks ago, I caught #2 with #4's diaper pulled down in front and stroking him. #1 and #2 "self soothe" almost nightly - I find her asleep with both hands down her pants. She will "hump" peoples legs, turn dolls face up between her legs and move around on it,etc. I find #1 with his pants pulled down with everything exposed - he's gone to sleep doing it to himself. I catch them at least twice a week doing something to each other. Last Saturday I was on the phone and heard "come here #2 and play with this" - I turned around and he had exposed himself and was urinating on my carpet while #2 WAS playing in it!!!

They have therapy but #1 is so demanding the therapist can do nothing with #2.

This has gone on for months and no matter how close I watch them, how busy I try to keep them, how many jumpsuits I put on them - they still find time and a way. I am not trained in this. With all the fk's we've had - I've NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM. We only take the little ones because we don't know how to deal with this thing.

I don't know what to do anymore. I've gone up the "chain of command" because the last JR the cw put "no services needed" when we need a whole pot of them.

Did I mention that when they came they were 3,2,1, & 5 months? They are now 4,3,1 (almost 2), and 1. They are siblings. I don't want to adopt, I want what is best for them - but what is that?? Of course, they are very, very bonded - and not all in a good way either.

Do I write all of this out and tell the judge what has gone on? Do I explain that we've never gotten the services (or extent of services) they need? What do I do!!!! I can't recommend ru - I don't even know the BioM except to pass off the kids at visits. The family that I've met is all totally nuts!! Are we doing these kids a disservice by following the laws and worrying about BioM's rights? She isn't old enough to cope with all 4 and if 2 of us can't keep a good enough eye on them - how will she - as a single working mom?

HELP!!

[MBelt8402]

Document, document, document, and tell the judge. These children need services. Hang in there. Here is a hug for you......O......

[nanab]

hi,
wow,these kids have realy got to be helped asap.and does anyone know who sexually abused these children?at least one of them has been abused,for this type of behavior to be happening.they are so young,it realy saddens me that they have lost their innocence already.with these type of behaviors 4 of them is to many to handle.maybe it would be best if they split up for now at least.please keep fighting for these kids to get the help they need.god bless you.
nanab

[Kelly Rae]

Poor kids what a sad account. Document everything. I would write everything that is going for the court. I would keep it to facts, but don't leave anything out. Mention what services are needed, in a non confrontational way, and let him/her draw the conclusions.

Sounds like the abuse has been going on a long time, and someone needs to find who abused them. Makes me think their was abuse going on in birth home and if so this needs to be addressed, and more horrifying if something happened in one of their previous foster homes there should be a investigation. The kids should be separated as this kind of behavior isn't likely to get better until they are. It is sad for sibs not to be able to stay together, but sometimes it is necessary and this seems one of those times. They all need therapy with a good sex therapist. I'm sure you are not allowing time with other kids as this is a disaster waiting to happen. .

This isn't just traumatizing to the kids, but your family. Trying to keep the amount of vigilance that is needed in this type of situation is exhausting. Please keep trying to get help for them because its not just them this affects but every child that comes in their path in the future. Hugs to you. You are wonderful for not giving up but trying to get them help. Hang in their. Let us know how you are doing. Prayers being sent.

[AmyAnne]

My kiddo was in a relationship like that with his siblings. It hurt them all immensely, but the solution was to separate the kids out to different homes. It took a long time to get everyone back on track, but after 4 years, the kids are just now able to visit with each other and interact appropriately.

[mrstkg1]

As much as I hate to say it, I think child #1 needs to be moved to a home with no other children as soon as possible, like today. That way he can get the help he needs without injuring other children. What he/she is doing is continually damaging himself and the younger ones. You must IMO have him moved immediately. #2 might need to be moved also, that would possibly give you a chance to save the youngest two.

I might meet with the social worker tomorrow and request the oldest be moved. You are not trained to handle him and he needs intervention immediately. The younger children must not have these images played out before their eyes, or they will be doing it.

As I see it you may have a chance with the younger two, but the older two need specialized treatment now. If there is an emergency pager, I would call today and request an emergency removal of the oldest and report the abuse. Also, you can't let this continue in your home, I guarantee it will come back to bite you in some way in the future, plus this is very psychological damaging to you and your family.

Take care, let us know how it's going.

[Scootersbabygirl]

OMG, I have not yet had to deal with this type of situation, although I'm sure as we continue on with this it may happen in the future.

I agree with MRSTKG1...the oldest two need to be placed elsewhere...seperate homes for both. There is always the possibility that the oldest will start trying to get another child to do what number 2 was doing, so he should definitely be in a home with no other children, or older children.

You need to stand up to DCF and tell them that becuase the children are not getting the services they need, and because you are not getting the training YOU need, that the oldest two need to be removed.

It will probably be extremely hard, but in the end I agree that it will help them immensely.

[Boulderbabe]

I am so sorry this is happening. It is such a destructive cycle.

I dated a woman who had been sexually abused by her brother when she was a child. When I was dating her, she was in her mid-40's and *still* dealing with the effects of the abuse. Whatever happens to your kids, the abuse needs to stop NOW. Please, don't let DSS fob this one off. Keep informing them of the abuse in writing. Don't just do it once--keep writing and writing and writing, to the worker, her supervisor, the attorneys and the judge. This will protect you, and more importantly, protect the kids.

[AmahMama]

I have reported the incidents. I have them documented. I just keep getting the "we will request services" routine. The incident yesterday just keeps replaying in my mind. I can't get rid of that picture. Now I'm a mess.

The therapist recommended that we send #1 and #2 to daycare. I said aloud that I felt that this would just give them another group of children to prey on. No one seems to be taking this seriously. Like I'm over reacting. Neither of the children understand why I am so upset. And I can't seem to get un-upset. The thoughts from them are - these are 4 and 3 yr olds. What can they really do. I smarted off to my husband that I feel like I'm harboring child molesters in my home. But yet they are children. Just babies really. They don't even know what they are doing is wrong.

I tried to contact the sw and the therapist - of course it's the weekend and neither has their phones turned on.

Thank you for your support and for backing up what I've been thinking for several months now. Now I just have to find a way to get action.

Thank you again.

[Howdy]

That is shocking that they won't move the older two to individual homes. The baby would have had a chance without being in the same home. Maybe they would move the youngest two? That wouldn't help you but at least it would protect the younger ones from more abuse.

I think it is your moral responsibility to prevent the abuse, even if that means you have to take some of the children to DSS and insist they take them.

I had a 4 yr old fd last summer who molested my 9 yr dd. It was such a shock. They didn't move the 4 yr old but she was being reunified within a few weeks and my 9 yr old could protect herself once she understood that it was not her fault and that she had not been bad.

There is a nice little book called 'Those are MY Private Parts!" (though for some reason it isn't available on amazon anymore) that I bought to read to the 4 yr old and she really seemed impressed by the message. Poor little kids, they really have no clue about right and wrong and their rights.

[ca-bigsister]

You are a mandated reporter of child abuse. Child abuse by the older is happening to the younger children.

I would call your state's foster ombudsman office (if you have one), the governor, whomever because this is completely unacceptable. Sexual abuse is continuing and the youngers are in the cycle.

Yes, if they put these children in daycare, that is sending prey upon innocents. I am sorry but I would be all over the place even threatening the press if something wasn't done. It's that serious.

[mrstkg1]

Amahmama,

I am so sorry this is happening to you. These are just tiny little children, replaying what they have seen or have had perpetrated on them. I would even call the police if you have to to get the older child out if necessary. They will have a mainline to DCFS in your state. I know this is so tragic, but I couldn't handle this either, not even for a minute, I would find that so distressing as an adult to come in and see that I would have a hard handling it. YOU NEED HELP, NOW, Do whatever you need too to get the attention for these children, no matter how drastic. Perhaps it's not too late for them. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and these precious ones.

[shycar]

Amahmama Im so sorry, I know how stressful this can be. We have been in your shoes twice. When you report these incidents where do you report it to? Is it to their sw or to the abuse hot line? We were trained that if a child sexually abuses another child we have to call the child abuse hot line and make a report. Then usually an investigation is opened. What they do is make sure everyone is safe. They talk to all children involved seperatly and to you and the sw's in the case and then they tell the sw's what needs to be done to keep everyone safe. If they see that you have reported to the sw several times and nothing is being done-these investagators will find out why nothing is being done and usually fix the problems. I had to report twice on two different children. First one was gone in two days, becouse she was a danger to the younger kids (she figured how to take off the alarms on the doors). The other one they helped us make the house safer, but suggested the sw to find a new home for them asap-which happened in a month. I know how stressful this can be, but I agree with the other post-with the amount of sexuall abuse is going on between them, I think its safer her to seperate the older. Safer for them and also they can heal better. This is so sad. It breaks my heart hearing these kind of stories. Good luck and keep us posted.

[tvs4]

I am so sorry for you and the children. The other posters are right. This has to stop. You need to call the CW or SW supervisor and then their supervisor. I wouldn't wait until the next court date to try to get this resolved. You just need to be the squeeky wheel until they HAVE to act. I would be polite but give them a deadline like "you have one week to solve this problem or I will have to insist the children are removed." It is terrible that a foster parent would have to do that - but they need to know that you are not taking "we'll work on it" as an excuse any longer. They are the ones who are in the wrong for not acting on this sooner - it is their job and obligation. We all support you in this and you have our backing - even it it is only "virtual".

Document everything - the children's behavior, who you call, when you call, what they say. Try to reconstruct a time line of when you asked and what was done.

Good luck.

[az sun]

Whew, certainly a lot to deal with. A couple of thoughts. I think it is incredibly hard, even as adults, to distinguish between adult perpetrators and child reenactment. I think there is a distinction on several levels. The oldest at 4 probably is not aware they are doing anything "wrong", it may feel good both on a physical level and an emotional level - what I mean is if this is the way they received "special attention".

Perhaps seeing what is occuring in this way you can see you are not "harboring" child molestors but young children who really do not know better and through no fault of their own have not had a chance to learn and behave differently. It is very true as others have said that in order for healing to occur and behavior to change, from what I have read, they need to be seperated so they are not set up for failure.

A sexual abuse (childrens) therapist can help distinguish between (about their behavior) what is "normal" sexual play/investigation (albeit age appropriate) and other (which really could stem from abuse by an adult or another child). It is so important that these children all learn, with help, about healthy boundaries with themselves (who can touch them) and others (why we dont touch, look, etc etc to others).

I understand your feelings of it replaying over in your mind and perhaps you can get some support from a professional in this area - ie so it lessens the traumatic affect on you and you can remain the foster parent and not totally triggered and upset with the kids.
I agree that it needs to be reported to a 24 hour crisis line and then let them handle it which hopefully will occur, it appears for whatever reason the current sw is not taking care of the children or your needs. These children are not "bad" - not suggesting you said this, merely as a reminder, however the behavior needs to stop.