[swiftde]

I am really getting more and more discouraged. To make a long story short my 10 yr old fs was saying up til a month ago he wanted us to adopt him, the sooner the better. A couple of weeks ago he found out he would receive a new birth certificate listing us as his parents. He didn't like that, then our family therapists told us we should expect him to call us mom and dad, (a term of respect, not as a replacement for his birthmom). Now because of those 2 things he absolutely does not want to be adopted. He only thought adoption meant get rid of all the caseworkers, he never wanted us as parents. He says he has a permanent family, (his mom, who he is on longer allowed to see), he doesn't need us. He had been saying he just wanted to stay here because he knows he can't go live with his mom anymore, but he wants nothing more. Then the other day, he told me in front of his caseworker, that he would rather go live with his friend.
Yesterday I was trying to talk with him, to understand some of his feelings, and help him work thru some of them. I asked if he was ever afraid I would abandon him, his response was no, he actually wishes I would abandon him. (Had he been angry at the time, I could have understood and not taken it personally, but he wasn't angry so I did take it personally, even though I still know I shouldn't). He again made it very clear that he does not want us as parents.
Today at church the sermon was on children obeying parents and how parents should treat their children, not provoking them, disciplining, etc. The minute we got in the car my fs said even the pastor said we shouldn't make him call us mom and dad. Fs feels because we watched a Nancy Thomas video and she said all her kids call her mom, that is why we are now enforcing it. Actually it was because the therapist brought the video, and the therapist said we should be doing that. Besides when we adopt him, what is he going to call us? The thing the pastor said is parents should use the bible for guidance on parenting, not the latest book or video. I also pointed out to fs that the paster had also said "honor your father and mother". My fs then sd we aren't his parents and never will be. I was so upset and hurt that I just became quiet and told myself "I refuse to cry in front of this kid"
I also made a huge mistake to myself last night, I was on adoptuskids, or something like that site, and ran across stories from adoptees. All of them we kids expressing their thanks and gratitude to the families who adopted them. Right now I am feeling like I have the only ungrateful kid, and all other foster kids or adopted kids are thankful and appreciate what their new parents have done for them. Of course I know that is not true, because I have read a few posts from others here who also seem to have ungrateful kids, but it seems to be less of them. My problem right now is I am hurting so much by his rejection and lack of appreciation, that I feel myself shutting down towards him. I don't want anything to do with him right now, if he doesn't want me as a parent then fine, let him go back to the system I don't even care. I know that is wrong on my part, and I don't really feel that way or I wouldn't be crying about it. Can someone tell me how do I keep going on, when he is hurting me like this? Should I just give up, it is what he wants? Since he is only 10 he isn't old enough to make the final decision, but I feel like if we do go thru with the adoption, he may be angry and bitter with me for forcing him to do what he really doesn't want. So I don't know what to do.

[vesw01]

Been there, doing that! Our 12 yr old told us she wanted to move the other day - she was mad that I was enforcing the rules. I honestly do not know how I feel about them having to call us mom and dad - our daughter started on her own. She still struggles with calling me mom when her biomom is around - that is ok I can understand.

Our family counselor asked her to not make a decision for a week, until we can all meet again. She agreed. Right now I know she is torn, but we are hanging in there. We just keep plugging along and making plans that she will be here....we will see.

Our therapist even said that often times that when the kids get closer to adoption they will turn and run. I have read many stories of this before. I believe in the websites that promote adoption, but remember it is advertising...they aren't going to out a child's remarks about it ruined their life.

Would his social worker consider legal guardianship instead of adoption?

[aedems]

I have my own biological children telling me they don't want me to be their mother. LOL!! Children at this age, for the most part, don't want parents (or so they think - they actually need us now more than ever before). He might just be testing you to see if you will abandon him, one last testing of the waters before you adopt him.

As far as being greatful, I think you will have to wait until he is about 21 (at least for boys) when he realizes what you have done for him and how you have changed his life.

He might just need a little more time and I personally would not hold back my emotions towards him. The more he pushes you away, the more loving I would become.

I'm not a therapist, so calling you mom and dad is not something I could really talk about, but you might want to ask the therapist if calling you Mama ______ (fill in your first name) would be less threatening for him and may ease him into calling you Mom and Dad. I don't know, just a thought.

Best wishes to you and I hope everything turns out well for you. Keep us posted!!

[nanab]

HI,
We are in the process of adopting our 10 year old fson.he has a therapist he sees every week,and she works on getting him to share his feelings.he still has a hard time expressing anger regarding his bparents. although he know says he hates the addiction.we have looked at this as a adoption placement from the beginning,because we are foster-adopt.his cw was pretty sure bparents rights would be terminated.he bonded and attached to us easily.he wants to stay with us and wants us to adopt him.the things he has had to work on,is accepting he wont be going home to bios.they always hold onto some hope that they will go home until told the judge has decided the plan is for adoption.he call us mom and dad sometimes,we are working on that.he refers to us as his mom and dad to others.we have just trecently worked through his getting a new name.giving up his last name was not easy for him.but we felt in case it was best.we are keeping his first name,dh and i chose a new middle name for him,and also let hum chose a new middle name.so he will only keep his birth first name,all the rest is new,and he is gaining a new family.he seems okay with it now.it sounds like your fson really needs more work with his therapist.our fson has a great therapist,and she will see him more often if he needs it.also your fosterson is grieveing his losses,so try not to take this to personal.communicate with his therapist,you are partners.and sometime she may have to have you and hubby come into therapy also.we have had alot of support through this process,sws,gal,therapist.we work together as a team.If you love this child ,dont give up.he probably just needs time to work through all this.best of luck.
nanab

[swiftde]

a couple more points I need to bring on, he was just recently diagnosed with RAD, he has been with us for 2 and a half years. We were licensed as foster/adopt, but when he was first placed it was over night, which turned into thru the weekend, which kept going on and on. When he was first placed with us he was seeing a counselor, but then his diagnosis was "failure to adapt" and the counseling was with his bio mom. Then when her rights were finally terminated it was the counselor who was chosen to tell him in a "therapuetic setting". Then he shut down, he refused to go to counseling, and when he did get there nothing was getting accomplished any more, so the couselor and we agreed to stop for a while. Then about 9 months later, his anger became out of control, I found a new counselor and started up again. He diagnosed fs with ODD and everything he tried failed, nothing was getting thru to fs, to the point where the counselor said he was as close to psychopath as he had ever seen in a kid. Again we stopped counseling, and things settled down for a while, at about the same time the court ordered a phsychological evaluation, and the GAL started pushing for approval for both individual and family therapy to begin, because they were all afraid of a failed placement. We finally got it all set up, but then the individual therapy still didn't happen because they said medicaid would not pay for both family and individual. Actually medicaid is not paying for the family, something else is. It was when he went in for his intake for the individual that they finally agreed he is RAD, and he has depression ONS. The family therapy is with someone very experienced with RAD, she actually has her own RAD son in addition to experience working with RAD kids in counseling. That is where the mom and dad thing came in. It puts you above the child in authority. He doesn't call us mom and dad, he is reluctantly calling us Mr and Mrs (last name). I finally got the call from that the individual therapy can now start they gave their approval, so I have to call to schedule that tomorrow.

He called his bio mom mama when he lived with her, so I have made it very clear I don't want him to call me mama, as that would be replacing her. I have thought about mom (first name), and will ask the therapist next time she is here.

My bio daughter used to tell me she hated me and wished I wasn't her mom when she was younger, and I never let that bother me, because I knew she was saying those things out of anger. She is 14 and we have a surprisingly good relationship, even for a teenager. Maybe that is why it is so hard to take from my fs, because if my daughter sees me as a good mom, then why can't he? (rhetorical question there)

[AmyAnne]

I know it's hard to hear. And I know it hurts. I think that on some level your FS may think that he is betraying his Bmom, or turning his back on her, and she won't forgive him.

We did two things to illustrate to our son this was not the point. 1 was that we told him the human heart builds a new room for everyone it loves. I told him I did not want to move into his birth mother's room, but I wanted to move into the room in his heart he and I built for me. We also set up candles... signifying us and bparents. We showed that if "his" candle lights all those candles, he doesn't run out of love. He's still got it. (and we had him light all the candles)

We also do special things to remember bfamily... he has a small Christmas tree. We wrote on plain ornaments the names of everyone he has lived with. He keeps this tree in his room and on his adoption day (Dec 8) we decorate the tree and say one nice thing about everyone.

I don't know if this helps you at all.....

Amy

[nanab]

hi again.
the rad definetely will have some bearing on how he is reacting.our fson has always called us by our first names,and callls us mom and dad sometimes.maybe let him call you by your first names,mr.and mrs.is so formal.that wouldnt feel like family to me either.i am so glad you are going to start new therapy for him.best of luck.
nanab

[swiftde]

I did the heart with additional rooms story. Maybe I got it from you, I know I read it on this board somewhere. He doesn't want to build a room for me. I showed him with my hands in a circle, this is your heart. Your mom and sister live here. No matter what happens your mom can never, never leave this room in your heart. I'm asking you to build another room over here. He doesn't want to build my room. He has told me it would make him feel disloyal to his mom. But nothing I can say or do seems to get thru to him. He has made up his mind that he will not be happy no matter what unless he goes back to live with his mom. It's as if he seems to refuse to believe that he really cannot ever go back to her.

I don't own candles, and don't want to own them. I have a fear of them being knocked over and starting a fire. (I know, I'm paranoid)

I do however like the idea of doing something special to remember the bio family. He does have some pictures his mom gave him just before her rights were terminated and I put them in a photo album for him. Occassionally we will go thru them and look at them. Most times when I ask if he wants to look at them, he says no. I don't know if he ever looks at them when I'm not around, he is free to do that though. She also wrote him a goodbye letter, that he keeps between the mattresses on his bed. Again, I'm not sure if he ever pulls that out to read. Of course if he does that could be the problem, because she told him to never give up on them being together again in the letter.

I think part of the reason why this is so hard for me right now, is because I feel like I am now trying to force him to believe something he doesn't want to believe. Like I am trying to force him to love me, or want me to be his parent or whatever and I am afraid of doing more damage than good.

[Dhewco]

So, all contact with the mother is terminated? If not, is there any way to get the biomom to support your effort to adoption? If there's any real love for her son, she might tell him that she understands and knows he can be truly happy with you.

Just my two cents, from a newbie...

David

[swiftde]

"hi again.
the rad definetely will have some bearing on how he is reacting.our fson has always called us by our first names,and callls us mom and dad sometimes.maybe let him call you by your first names,mr.and mrs.is so formal.that wouldnt feel like family to me either.i am so glad you are going to start new therapy for him.best of luck.
nanab"

He has called us by our first names for the whole time he has been here. But he was only recently diagnosed with RAD, and RAD therapy just began. With a RAD kid you have be "above" them. Calling us by our first names puts him on the same level as us. Like friends. He doesn't respect us at all. Yes, Mr and Mrs is too formal, and the therapist hopes he will decide that on his own. But since he has to show us respect and refuses to do that by calling us mom and dad, his other choice is Mr and Mrs, such a school teacher. He would never be allowed to call his teachers by their first name.

"So, all contact with the mother is terminated? If not, is there any way to get the biomom to support your effort to adoption? If there's any real love for her son, she might tell him that she understands and knows he can be truly happy with you.

Just my two cents, from a newbie..."

All contact with his birthmom is out. She is in prison. Also in her case it would be very damaging to allow her to have contact with him. She has been diagnosed with antisocial disorder, or some personality disorder. She is very manipulative, and under no circumstances could she be trusted to support us. She would only be out to destroy us, and she would probably be able to do it without anyone even noticing. Of course in my fs eyes she is a perfect parent and he doesn't understand any of this.

[Dhewco]

Okay, so that idea is out...what about other biofamily he might accept advice from...is there anyone? He used the pastor's sermon against you, have you considered having the man/woman talk to him?


more nonsense from a newbie,

David

[ca-bigsister]

When things are in writing, it is more "real" to people. I know this from previous work as a paralegal in family law (divorce). Spouses would verbally call each other every name in the book during depositions, but when they saw what they said in writing (transcript of deposition or interrogatories - written questions and responses), they would go nuts.

Imagine you are your son. Yes, he had a terrible childhood otherwise he wouldn't be with you. However, his whole history is being rewritten by getting a birth certificate. His Biomom did give birth to him, and when we get a new birth certificate, it really takes that away. His foundation is being shook. The truth is that the biomom did give birth to him, not you. It is really hard for children to reconcile this on a primal level, even though we know that you are the best choice for him now.

I know because my mom was adopted when she was 2 by her stepfather and got a new birth certificate, but didn't know he was her stepfather (she thought he was biofather) until right before she was married. This shook her foundations.

My FD for years romanticized her biomom (drug addict, thief, liar, etc., prisoner) and biodad (in prison for attempted murder of his own father during a drug binge). It is only now that she is 15 and has been in therapy since she was 7 that she is finally seeing the truth about her bioparents and their weaknesses.

Your son will come around - this is just so much for a little guy to handle. Give it time. I know it's hard - believe me, when my FD was saying how great her bios were, I wanted to spit. I beat pillows in my bedroom, cried to friends, went to therapy, etc. But now she finally is seeing the truth.

Give it time, give him space, therapy, love, fun and it will eventually happen. But his foundation is really shook now and he doesn't know where to turn. He is turning against you because you are safe, and you will still love him. He is giving you his feelings because he (unconsciously) knows that you will still be there for him. Fun for us, huh? (Sarcasm).

[stevenstwin]

I think I have to say something here that ISN'T uplifting and encouraging. This kid is RAD...which means that there is a chance that he WON'T "come around" or "learn to deal with it"....EVER. And the reason I'm saying this is because I don't want you to end up feeling like a failure if it never happens. Some of these kids really ARE too damaged to heal, and you can see that in stories from forums dedicated to RAD kids. There was even a recent thread about what happens to them if they are still RAD when they hit adulthood (a range from "poor and unsatisfying relationships with others" to "jail"). I HOPE that he is young enough to benefit from your incredible amount of love for him, and I definitely say keep on for as long as you can stand it, and with faith and a few miracles you may get to be his "mom". But after reading through all the posts that remind you he is having a tough time (duh) and that he'll eventually come around, I just wanted to say this to help you remember not to beat YOURSELF up over this. I know you KNOW that, but it's really hard to FEEL it all the time. Loving someone who doesn't (and maybe can't) love you back has GOT to be the most painful experience in the world. And whatever ends up happening - know that you have given him SOMETHING to hang onto - something he would never have gotten if he'd eneded up in a group home or treatment center.

[swanzie]

Basically I have to agree with Stevenstwin. If he truely is RAD - then you are most likely not going to get the love in return that you deserve. However, from your post you say your fs has a letter or something under his mattress...this shows a connection. What this says to me is that he isn't totally unattached and this is a GOOD thing. He is still somewhat young - and the fact he seems to have real attachment to his bio shows he can attach.IMHO.

I agree with the mom and dad rule. If he doesn't like it - too bad - if he calls you anything other than mom or dad - don't respond - period. He doesn't like it because it is forming an attachment in a way he doesn't want to. Like I said oh well...

I had to get tough with my fs. Basically I did what I am going to say - just sit him down - TELL him what is going to happen. You are going to be adopted...that makes us your mom and dad - you are going to call us mom and dad - If he puts up a stink just say you can call your sw anytime you like - matter a fact give me the phone I will dial it. Mine just walked away in a huff - things were bad then - but now they are good...he has accepted the conditions of this house and to be quite frank - he hasn't given us problems on that front since.

A RAD kids is not a normal kid - they aren't going to just get over it and come around. They are going to push you away and use anything they can to push your buttons - and if they find something that hurts you - they are going to keep at it until you break - because they want that control. You can't let him have it. 1st of all he is winning by pushing your buttons and 2ndly he is a child. He might not like it and all - but guess what if he REALLY really hates it - he can change his name back when he is 18 or whatever the law is on that...but in the meantime - you are his parents and put your foot down. Easier said than done I know.

I have lived with my fs for almost 2 years now - he is diagnosed with RAD, PTS, and ODD - so we run the gammet. With his RAD stuff it is really hard to love him on some days - however, even it I force myself to do it - it has to be done. He knows it or not - that love is slowly leaking into his heart - I can see it happening. I know you feel like you are forcing him and you don't want to hurt him more - but believe me - by letting him create a stronger wall around his heart will do more damage in the long run than leaking in love and giving him the stability and family he deserves. You are not hurting him - although that is how he is going to describe it - but in the long run for future relationships and for the rest of his life - he is going to be better off!

[mommytoEli]

ugh...your post is painful to read. I will not pretend to know what the right answer is.....but when we took in dd, now 12, when she was 8, this was her. she didn't want to be adopted, but her bio-mom had passed away, and her bio dad was put in jail until after she was 18. everyone else in her family abandonned her....so there was no bio family to be connected with....what she wanted was NO family. she wanted to stay in the group home where the caregivers changed every 6 hours. It is much much easier to play people, manipulate, lie, and guard your heart when you get a new caretaker every 6 hours. It took 2 years to finalize her adoption, and for the first 1 1/2 she said she didn't want to be adopted, and she called us by our fist names....I didn't mind...I just wanted what was best for her. After the 18 months, she decided she wanted to be adopted, and we continued...but I honestly think she only changed her mind b./c we told her regardless of her decision, we would be adopting her older brother....I think she wanted to be in a group home, just not alone. When I think back....I wish we would have pushed harder for them to find an alternate placement that she would have wanted....b/c since we have finalized it has been nothing but her trying to literally drive me crazy. she doesn't want to be here, so she has no reason to behave or follow directions or anything. Sometimes I am actually scared of her. It is no way to live. Now she is off to boarding school beginning this summer, by her choice AND mine, and I hope she will let me be her mother from afar. If not, I don't know what else to do...other than let her go. Whether I force her to let me in, or I emotionally let her go, I will still be the horrible adoptive mother in the end. I wish I would have done something different in the beginning....maybe she would be happier.

I guess my point is, if you have young man NOT interested in being adopted, I would not proceed right now. Is there a reason to push it? Maybe foster him a while longer while everyone, including him, decides what is in his best interest.