[stevenstwin]

sorry for all the drama lately. My god. We just had a "row" and I know it pales in comparison to what some people on here have been through with teens, but I'm still pretty shaken. My 13 year old daughter stamped on the living room floor to tell him to turn his music down, and he went ballistic! Screaming and yelling and saying that she's always trying to boss him around. I told him to calm down, and he didn't. I told him to go turn the music off, and he refused and said "I'd like to see you try and make me". I informed him that he had now lost all his electronics for a period of time to be determined after my husband gets home, so he went in his room and turned it UP. So I flipped the breaker to his room. He stormed into the electrical room and almost pushed me off the step ladder, called me a B*, told me I was an abusive foster parent and he was going to report me for turning his power off! He also told me he has going to take a hammer and destroy every electriconic in my house. AND he flipped it back on. He was right in my face, red with rage and just SCREAMING at me like I've never seen him do before. Frankly, it was a little scary - he is 6'2" and weighs 215 pounds, and my hubby was not home. I've never been afraid of this kid, but the rage was so out of proportion to the incident that I didn't know WHAT was going through his mind. I told the girls to put their coats on, we were leaving - so he said 'never mind - I'll leave!" and stormed out the door with no coat (it is about 2 degrees below freezing right now). I locked the door behind him. He didn't GO anywhere - just sat down on the step, so I called his social worker to ask what the heck to DO. He told me to call the police if I'd actually been assaulted. I hadn't, so he said "let him in and I'll talk to him". So he got an earful about how abusive I was, turning off the power and kicking him out without a coat. SW said "it sounds like he's calmed down to the point of it being normal teen age stuff - call me if you have any more trouble". As soon as he hung up the phone, he was in my face screaming again, so this time I really DID leave the house with the girls. By the time I'd gotten home he'd left (without a coat, by the way) and gone to his "dad's" house. And in case you've been reading my post about dad - I've been considering telling him what I think of the guy, but I have NOT DONE SO yet, so that is absolutely not what he is mad about. In fact, the rage is probably the result of dad telling him that he shouldn't be here and I think he's trying to get kicked out because of that. Oh, and here he comes in the door right now... wish me luck, or say a prayer, or give me advice :-(

[AmyAnne]

No advice, except if you are scared for the safety of yourself and your girls.... it may be time to rethink the placement.

I will be around tonight if you want to PM me, or if you have AIM or YIM, I am Amyclogger on there.


My prayers are with you, your girls, your husband, and A tonight.

[swiftde]

I don't know. I think you know by now my fs is only 10. He has these same type of blowouts and it is scary, but he is still shorter than me. (I'm short at only 5'1") and I fear what he will be like at 15. We had a blowout today too, but what seems to help one if you can remain calm, any RAD expert will tell you that. (I can't remain calm most times, but I am working on that). Also when my fs is out of control, I usually leave him alone. He calms down within 5 to 20 minutes. It is so frustrating when he calms down that fast and can come in and act like nothing happened, and of course I'm not calmed down yet. But I don't impose consequenses with him at the time of the behavior. I wait until he is calm. I may make a comment of it's sad he can't listen right now, or I may just say nothing and wait. Later after I know I'm calm too, I let him know what his consequenses will be. Surprisingly I use expect him to explode again when I let him know, but most times he doesn't. He accepts them, he may complain, but he usually cooperates with them. If not he will get more consequenses.
I think you could have called the police anyway, and maybe should have. Our entire police dept knows us now because we have called when we felt threatened. Usually they come and give him a good talking to, but they can usually find charges if they need to. It may sound cruel, but you can't let him be abusive and obviously if he is bigger than you, you do have remain safe.
Your story scares me, and 5 years from now I may be telling similar stories. My fs will probably be over 6 ft by that age too.
I will be checking to see how it turns out for you.

[Kay-Ray1]

I agree with AmyAnne! If you are fearful enough to leave your own house, I would def. be rethinking the situation.
I can't imagine how scary that was for you!

[aedems]

Hopefully everything has gone well for you!! Let us know how it ended up.

If and when everything has calmed down, I would ask this question to him.....What is bothering you? I have found that teenagers act out that way when there is something they need to talk about. They get angry because they are already trying to deal with it and then something else throws them off. It generally has nothing to do with electronics, etc. A lot of times I believe they get angry at us for not knowing exactly what is wrong with them (mind reader I am not). Sometimes there are clues, sometimes there are not. Obviously it seems as this poor child has been through the ringer already, but as you said there is something going on with dad, something else probably has happened. It is worth a try, just remember a psychologist I am not

I'll be thinking about you!

[neema.arezo]

Wow! I have been where you are with our 14 year old. I feel for you... When my fs did what your A did he went outside - just like A. I tried several times to talk to him and 4 different times that night he cursed me. When he went out the last time in an effort to get his way, I cleaned out his room. TV, Stereo, Game boy, All the other electronic games, electric cars, basketball goal, EVERYTHING! When he walked back into "his" room he was in TOTAL shock. We sat down after that and I explained to him what it meant to be part of a family and that everyone had to pull their weight. As the conversation unfolded I found that he wasn't really mad at me but mad at his bmom b/c she always promised things, "doesn't want me", and was talking bad about me. We talked some more and he has been a different child since that conversation and a horrible visit where I had to go get him in an emergency situation.... At the end of the conversation I told him he had to earn his belongings back by doing what he is suppose to do... make up bed, respect, homework and that's about it (he has it too easy). He has not earned all of his things back yet but his attitude is SO much better - I'd give it all back just b/c of that but it would defeat the purpose of taking it...

Let us know how things go

[Howdy]

I agree with the poster that said there is usually something else going on with the angry kid and that they expect us to read their minds.

My daughter was all upset a month or so ago, and ran around with a knife stabbing holes in various pillows and stuff. I was pretty freaked (mostly that she might stab herself, but a little bit that she might attack me, she is only 10 and smaller than me, but strong, and I'm aging and fat).

The psychiatrist we use is a fan of the Post Institute 'Beyond Consequences' stuff, and they have a slogan (I'm not sure it originated with them) that "Scared children do scary things". And they advocate trying to sympathetically understand what is going on with a badly behaving child.

So I asked my daughter that day what was making her so upset and she replied "you know!". I told her I didn't know but she insisted I did. So I hazarded a guess "Are you having flashbacks?" and apparently she was (she really expects me to be a total mind-reader!). So then she calmed down.

Maybe you could try that super-loving sort of stuff the Post Institute suggests. It seems weird (and frankly it seems wrong to be loving and sympathetic when a kid is smashing up all the donuts that were purchased to take to their classmates, or stabbing holes in the sofa cushions) but it has helped with my daughter.

Another technique, that a phone counselor on the Boys Town 800 hotline for kids told me, is that when a kid is doing something violent and scary to you, it can help to describe to the kid what they are doing and that you don't like that. I haven't kept my head well enough to do that. I suppose I should have told my daughter "You are stabbing holes in the nice sofa cushions, that makes me feel anxious"?

[stevenstwin]

Thanks everyone. I should be used to this by now, but I'm so frustrated. I should say that I don't think I *really* felt in danger...I left the house more as a "time out" than out of fear. (not that he COULDN"T hurt me, but because I really don't think he would - and he's never been violent with me or anyone that I know of - just occasionaly breaking "stuff" or putting holes in the wall. I''m not just being naive, am I?) I couldn't make him quit raging, but I could remove myself from it. Anyway, after he came home he pulled that maddening crap of acting like nothing had happened! Then he got all apologetic and keeps trying to hug me. But I know he JUST DOESN'T GET IT. He's "sorry" because I'm upset and life isn't pleasant when there is tension in the air. But he is still characterizing this as a "fight" "argument" and "screaming match" (excuse me?) between peers. I just can't get him to see that *I* am the parent and I have a right to control his behaviour and take privileges away. He's still at "well, if you take away my electronics I'll take away yours". AND he was asking me to PLEASE not tell my husband because he doesn't want him mad at him! It's like he sees it as a fight between two siblings, and don't tell dad because we'll both get in trouble. ?? SO...he has lost his electronics - not sure for how long yet, I'm not sure what is fair and reasonable. AND he is doing my daughter's chores for her for the rest of the week. But I'm still so frustrated from knowing he doesn't understand. I think this has a lot to do with the attachment disorder - I don't know if he IS capable of understanding or being truly sorry. As for the cause? He doesn't know - but I DID find out that he mentioned to the social worker that his dad is "acting really weird" (guess I don't need to point it out after all), and he's really, REALLY upset to find out that his little brother and sister are now calling the adoptive parents mom and dad.

[aedems]

Well I am glad at least that things calmed down a bit. As far as fairness of when to give his electronics back, my feeling is he needs to earn them back one by one, not the whole group at once. Remember to start small (don't expect a miracle before you give something back) and then gradually expect MORE of a behavior change before things are given back. Don't forget to reward him and praise him when he wants to TALK about what is going on.

It might even be a good idea to give him a "journal" to write in for nobody to read if that is the way he wants it or for him to write in it and let you read it so he might not have to TELL you his feelings in spoken word - boys hate that. Then when there are quiet moments you might be able to ask him a simple question like - I got from your journal that you were upset about XYZ and wanted to know if you would like to talk about it. If you can get him to journal I think it would be very beneficial for him, even if he just draws in it. It is amazing how it can put it all in perspective sometimes.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[swiftde]

I'm glad things seem to be calmer now for you. I know how frustrating it is when they come back and act like nothing happened and it is no big deal. My fs did the same thing today, his blowout wasn't that big today but when he came back out of his room, he acted like nothing happened and was as happy as could be. UGH.

[JewelMarie]

I have a pre-teen and she screamed at me a couple of weeks ago. Boy was I shocked. Anyway I told her to leave the house and go outside and cool off and come back in when she decides to show me respect. The first time she came in, she started making excuses for her behaviour and pinning it onto me, like it was my problem. So I asked her to go back outside and return when she decides to accept her own behaviour. I told her that I am working on accepting mine.(I yelled at her when she started screaming at her so it got her more upset and she screamed at me more.)

Anyway, she eventually came back in and apologized, then we sat down and talked about me being her mom so therefore she must show me respect. She being my daughter who need to show me respect. It was after that that we actually dwelt with what happened to cause me to speak with her and her to scream at me.

Boundaries are important for children no matter the age. I would suggest that you speak with your husband; have him speak with your fs and then all three of you sit down and talk; he needs to sincerely apologize to you. I would also suggest having a family sharing time where everyone(including your daughter) sit and talk about things. However remember to set some boundaries with what is and is not acceptable in behaviour and words.

[ca-bigsister]

I don't know what to say, except wow you're amazing. I'm sending you lots of light and support.
Wow, you're keeping an open mind. Thank you for what you're doing. May God Bless You.

I have a 15 yo FD, so if there's anything I can do help you, please PM me.

[Faith65]

Steven,

It sounds to me like he is having a hard time processing what his dad is saying to him. When B was having her last few visit with bio's including a older sister we would see behaviors like you are. I would advocate for these to stop. Right everything down. Email them. Also talk to his lawyer or GAL. Let his therapist know too.

Make him earn back his electronics. Families don't behave like he has been. It is a privelige to have a family and be part of one.

Call the cops if he starts raging like that again.

And ussually they are trying to process something when behaviors like this show up. And they think you know. You can say I understand you are angry or scared right now. Can you help me help you? Or try to figure out what may be setting him off. It could be just a normal teenager thing too.

PM anytime. Hang in there. You are a great parent.

[shy_bear]

I am not get anyone who agrees with me here, but if you were to tell someone this story of how he was in your face screaming and being aggressive then coming back with I'm sorry it won't happen again...one might think you are describing an abusive relationship. What are you teaching your girls???? It is ok for a man to get in your face, yell, threaten, and curse and then as long as he apologizes he gets a minimal consequence then we all go on like a happy family?????? Just my opinion. I wish you luck and pray it nevers comes down to him hurting anyone in your family.

[stevenstwin]

I see your point, Shy - it has crossed my mind that this does have elements of an abusive marriage! On the other hand, what specific action would you advise? See - if it was a spouse or boyfriend treating me this way, I'd kick his arse to the curb and never let him back through my front door. But this is a child - and attachment disordered child. I would HOPE that what I'm teaching my daughters is compassion and not giving up on an emotionally damaged kid. Would I keep him if I thought he would actually hurt someone? Absolutely not...but I know that is hard to predict. At this point, he has used his size to intimidate, but he has not ever put his hands on me or done anything at all to physically threaten the girls. I also do know that he is having flashbacks of abuse at the hands of women in his life when he does that - he's occasionally slipped and called me another name. I don't know WHAT did it yesterday, but there was obviously a trauma trigger of some kind. I know it is a real balancing act trying to decide how far you are willing to go to help someone, and when you need to give up.

Originally Posted by shy_bear

I am not get anyone who agrees with me here, but if you were to tell someone this story of how he was in your face screaming and being aggressive then coming back with I'm sorry it won't happen again...one might think you are describing an abusive relationship. What are you teaching your girls???? It is ok for a man to get in your face, yell, threaten, and curse and then as long as he apologizes he gets a minimal consequence then we all go on like a happy family?????? Just my opinion. I wish you luck and pray it nevers comes down to him hurting anyone in your family.