[Ashbre]

We have kinship care of the two grandchildren (1 and 3). Their father is under a no contact order due to his not complying with the court orders. Yet he just dropped my stepdaughter off at my house (what would have happened if the grandchildren had been outside???)

Brandy (my stepdaughter) is under supervised visits only to be supervised by my husband or myself. It appears that he may be leaving her at our home with the kids and my 16 yr old daughter, my 15 yr old nephew, my 17 yr old nephew and a 19 yr old friend of the family - this equals to no supervision at all.

Also, two weeks in a row now after Brandy has had her group parenting class with the therapist and R (granddaughter - Brandy's daughter) - anyway, for two weeks in a row now Brandy and my husband have had laughing fits together over the parenting classes. She laughs herself silly telling hubby how stupid the therapist is, how stupid the classes are etc and hubby not only listens but adds his own two cents (he doesn't believe in therapists so thinks its all a bunch of hogwash) to the laughfest. I warned him about it last week after it happened the first time apparently to no good.

I want to call the social worker to tell him what's going on. But then on the other hand, he's planning on filing for us to have permanent custody in September. I don't want the kids to be placed in foster care b/c after a certain time limit the kids get adopted out and since he's already told me that Brandy won't be able to complete everything she has to in a year's time which is why he is moving for us to have permanent custody at 6 mos, what happens next??? If placement fails with us, I doubt they would then consider letting us adopt especially since I'm still under the respite only rule due to not having documentation supporting any therapy I had as a child due to my own abuse (I've already been told that at this time, we can't adopt the kids we've wanted).

I'm so mad and so disgusted. This was part of the reason I didn't want to take the kids in - cuz I knew these problems would arise. Hubby has always put Brandy first and he's been told numerous times by the social workers etc that he has to put the kids first but apparently he's still intent on keeping Brandy happy.

[Bailey071097]

Ashbre - this is deep, and I say this only to help, not to hurt feelings... I am reading between the lines and feel that the person who denied your original homestudy due to your not having therapy for past issues saw some of your issues coming into play with your current relationships. To be blunt, are you an enabler? Are you co-dependent? There is a reason why you are with your husband that plays into your child-hood (this can be said for all marriages - not just picking on you).

His behavior is absolutely not ok and does jeopardize you keeping the kids. You can not change him, but you can help the dynamics of your relationship by working on yourself. If you change the way you react to him (and to others) by working on yourself in therapy, it will change his reactions to you. And... possibly change his reactions to his daughter (not to mention his daughter's reactions to you).

[Ashbre]

It is standard procedure here in Kentucky (according to the supervisors at the licensing board and also the attorney I work with who was a social worker while going to law school) to request documentation verifying that any individual abused as a child had counseling to deal with the issues so no, its not just me. They’ve already said once I obtain that verification (which I have already requested), they would approve us. My social worker put in her report that I appear to be a well-adjusted individual with no issues and she was surprised that they fell back on the rule.

Just because I was an abused and neglected child, that doesn’t mean I have become a co-dependent, doormat of a woman – that’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard. I don’t let people walk over me or use me (ok, sometimes I do but I know I’m being used and there are times that I have to accept it - such as in being able to stay in contact with my now 14 yr old nephew who has always had a really rotten home life that I can’t do anything about other than to be there for him and sometimes this means I bite my tongue with his mom), I don’t let people talk down to me or treat me poorly. Instead, I am a very strong, independent person who tends to take care of people so I guess that could be an unresolved issue if you’d like. I became the mom to my two brothers when I was about 8 (our mom was out of the picture due to, we find out now, dad disappearing with us after being given temp custody). I am not a doormat, nor have I raised my daughters to be (ok, so I may have overshot that mark a bit as they are both very strong, independent almost women as well and not a bit shy of standing up for themselves). I do not tolerate or accept abuse of any nature.

I love my husband – I always have. But its not been an easy road as he does have some issues in regards to his daughter (who he gave custody of to his sister when the daughter was 6 yrs old so that he could drive semi – the sister raised her for 10 years). And I'm just tired of it all. So being put on hold at the moment for fostering has turned into a good thing.

So you suggest I work on myself and that will cause him to stop letting his daughter run all over him??? Exactly what part should I work on??? The part that causes me to want to help people??? The part that has had the backbone to take charge of my life at 16??? The part that has caused me to raise two great girls??? Or how about the part of me that was able to help my 14 yr old nephew whom I took in on an emergency basis while his father was in Iraq and his mother had kicked him out - he was quite an angry, violent child when I got him and a great kid by the time his dad got him almost a year later??? Oh wait, I'm supposed to work on how I react to hubby and stepdaughter? Exactly what would you, in your infinite wisdom, do differently had it been in your family???

And while I’m doing all this, I suppose I should just sit back and let the stepdaughter do whatever she wants in regards to these two little ones who asked for none of this??? This includes violating court orders, making the constant promises to the 3 yr old about how mommy got her a new house, a new bedroom, a new tv, new this and new that etc, giving fitness water to the 3 yr old just a couple of hours before bed, giving koolaide to the 1 yr old when I haven't even started giving him full strength yet. I should just ignore all this instead of getting upset that hubby doesn't see a problem with it???

I don’t see how you get this from my complaining about their laughing over how stupid the parenting classes are and what an idiot the therapist is. I’ve tried talking to him explaining that although he doesn’t believe in therapists (he calls them quacks who just con people out of their money), I've told him that he should support that his daughter needs to be taught parenting skills regardless of how he feels about therapists, counselors, psychologists etc. But if he did that, then the stepdaughter would be upset with him and put him on the silent treatment and he can't stand that.

We got the kids b/c I called CPS due to the no water, electricity/heat due to be shut off any day b/c of a $1300 power bill, being evicted and no where to go, children not on WIC or public assistance of any kind (this includes even having a medical card), crack being dealt and used around the children, medical neglect (7 mos old hadn’t been to the dr since he was 1 mo old, 2 yr old had to have 2 teeth pulled, 2 capped and 4 root canals). Hubby’s reaction to all of this was “well, I can’t do anything about it” prior to my calling CPS. And let’s not forget the recent scare of finding out that the almost 3 yr old granddaughter may well have been molested – but what can you expect to happen when stepdaughter doesn’t go get her daughter when she is told that the boyfriend has sent the little girl (then 2) to stay with an “crackhead uncle” (stepdaughter’s words) of his in another town for 4 days.

Stepdaughter has repeatedly told hubby he owes her whatever she wants b/c he gave her to his sister and wasn’t there for her growing up. And he goes out of his way to see that she’s happy so they can be friends. This includes loaning our cars (first time she rented it to a guy she had just met for $50; next she brought it home saying “I think someone hit it” – went out to look to see some pretty big dents on a driver’s side rear door; she repeatedly let her crack dealing boyfriend drive the car against our wishes resulting in another “I think someone hit it” and “there’s a hole (yes, an actual hole about 2-3 in across and 2 in tall) in your bumper but I don’t know how or where it happened”, etc etc etc.), letting her stay with us only to have her sneaking grown men into her bedroom to spend the night with her repeatedly, sneaking out without telling anyone leaving her daughter in my daughter’s bed, attacking my then 12 yr old daughter who was holding my 4 yr old niece (ambulance came).

And because I don’t want to put up with more of it and because I’m angry at their behavior and how it does and will affect the grandchildren, I’m in need of therapy????

I’m sorry but you don’t know me or how I handle things, you don’t even know exactly what I went through as a child/teen, you don’t know even know what all I've already put up with in regards to hubby and stepdaughter. You really don't know anything other than what I have posted. So I don’t see how you know enough to judge me and tell me what I need.

The only thing I can see from your response that was correct was that his behavior is not ok. And his responses to my trying to tell him that was for him to literally sit there laughing at me. I wasn’t screaming at him, I was talking calmly and rationally trying to get him to understand why he needs to support the classes.

At this point, I’ve told hubby that I can’t do it anymore. That I can’t just sit by and watch him and her make a mockery of the parenting classes (which they obviously don’t believe she needs or will learn anything from, I mean, don’t all mothers love to literally terrorize their small children to where they’re afraid of the dark at a year and a half of age??? And yes, we’ve seen her do it – she said she liked to hear them scream, she thought it was funny when they did.

I hate the thought of losing the little ones but already know that’s more than likely going to happen since I’m not “blood kin”.

If wanting to help people is a bad thing (the only thing I can and do trace back to my childhood), then I guess everyone on this board is suffering from that “unresolved issue” and I have no intention of changing it.

[Lylac]

I would call the children's caseworker. He's not supposed to be comming to where they are living. In my opinion he broke the no contact order, by being on the property. If you call her, it won't look bad on you, it will look bad on Brandy for bringing him around when she knows better. It will show her that you are trying to protect them no matter what.
And ask her what to do if it happens again?

[stevenstwin]

Yikes, Donna - I can see you have a bit of a situation there. I'm not sure what to do...I sure do want to see those kids stay with you, and I don't know if telling the caseworker would jeopardize the placement. Ordinarily, I'd suggest that you get the therapist to talk to your husband so you have some back up on convincing him that this is NOT okay, but since he thinks therapists are hogwash, I don't imagine it would be very convincing. The very specific point that he needs to understand (have you phrased it his way?) is that he is undermining Brandy, in a way. By letting her laugh off therapy, he is giving her permission to NOT learn or gain anything from it. And if she doesn't take it seriously, she'll never be able to be a strong woman or a good mom. So it is in Brandy's own best interests that he help her take the theraphy seriously! Maybe in the end the best ideas IS to tell the caseworker, and get him to help you give hubby this message. I don't "think" it will jeopardize the placement - but hearing it from a third party may help hubby "get it", especially if HE thinks it might jeopardize the placement. I'm working on the assumption here that the social worker will want to work with you to save the placement and resolve the issues, since a "grandparent" placement is undoubtedly the first choice for these two. I don't know if any of this helps - but good luck with it! These kids NEED you -and Brandy does to, since you are the only one willing to give her the truths she needs to hear.

[Ashbre]

I’ve tried explaining that Brandy needs to take these classes seriously and that as long as he joins in with her in making fun of them, she’s never going to learn anything from them and the ultimately, it’s the grandchildren who are going to suffer. But it hasn’t gotten me anywhere unfortunately. He simply refuses to “get” what it is I’m saying.

I’m going to have to discuss it with the social worker – I really don’t see any choice since hubby won’t listen to me. He says he doesn’t want to listen to it.

[Ashbre]

So far I haven't been able to reach the social worker - its a him, he's an ex-Marine lol. But sometimes I swear Brandy has him believing all that she says b/c we've had other instances of Brandy helping Ryan violate the no contact order. When I talked to the worker then, his reply was "well I talked to Brandy and she said it didn't happen".

Well what does he expect her to say?!?!

[stevenstwin]

Good grief - he's implying that YOU are making up details? Uh...Brandy's children are in foster care for a REASON, hello! As for you DH you have my sympathy - what's the old expression? "There is none so blind as he who will not see."

[Ashbre]

She's been great about telling any who listen that I only do the things I do because I hate her and am "just plain evil" (yes, I've actually heard her telling hubby that once when I insisted we take the car back again). So when I called in that time and left a voicemail about her putting the children's father on the phone with the 3 yr old, he called her about it but then told me "well she said it didn't happen". I, of course, then had to point out that she also tried denying it happened to hubby only to admit to it after he caught a slip she made later in the conversation.

Then the worker was "oh, she admitted doing it" and I told him yes. Don't really know what ever came of that though as we never heard anything again.

[Ashbre]

His first response was that yes I would probably lose the little ones since I’m not “blood kin”. I jumped on that to say that I realize I would lose the kinship care but that I currently do share custody of the kids in my name as well as his. When I put it like that, he said he’s not sure and he’ll have to do some checking.

I explained what’s been going on and that I can’t get through to hubby and am at the end of my rope. He would like to meet with hubby and I next week either at his office or at our home in the evening to try to talk about these things.

But final word is that if we do separate, the court has to be notified immediately and in the interim, he will check into it for me.

[Hadley2]

Ashbre,

As to the immediate problems: The mother can't just show up when she feels like it for a supervised visit. These must be scheduled with you and the schedule must be confirmed through your agency. Any deviation from that schedule is a violation of supervised visitation, including lateness by more than 20 minutes. If the mother resists supervision, that is, tries to take the child out of your earshot or sight, that is a violation. If her conversation is inappropriate, for example, telling the child not to listen to you or "dissing" your role as caretaker, that is a violation. Every visit should be documented: date, scheduled time, actual time, general content, specifics on anything inappropriate. Too many violations or even if the visits just seem too tense to benefit the children, and you should insist that visitation be supervised by the agency at the agency.

As for the father showing up, next time call 911 IMMEDIATELY and record make, model and license plate number of the car used. This is a protective issue. You don't have to (and shouldn't!!) jeopardize your own safety by trying to get him to leave or telling him the police are on their way yourself. He already knows he is violating a court order.

As to the overall situation: You sound like a caring woman with a big heart but you already know that you can't raise those children safely in the same house with your husband enabling their mother. Something bad will happen. You know you are going to have to make a choice.

If you separate or divorce, you may not have the legal tie of kinship but you do have a pre-existing relationship and attachment that puts you way ahead of strangers.

OTOH, it almost sounds as if this family is so entangled that the problems may well continue even if you try to disengage from your SD and DH. No doubt, these people are toxic to these children, and it may be in their best interest to be as far away and cut off from them as possible. I don't know, but it's something to think about.

We, too, are in a kinship-type situation but the parents are states away (for now, anyway) and no one in the extended family enables them in this way. If we had the kind of interference and boundary-breaking you're talking about even at the very beginning, I would have strongly considered leaving our niece in the loving care of her foster family instead.

You have some heart-wrenching decisions ahead of you. Please know our good wishes are with you.

[mrstkg1]

Dear Ashbre,

Obviously this is a very tough and emotional situation, especially with such I'm sure precious children. Perhaps you are working harder to save this situation than the people that should be the most concerned, namely the childrens mother.

As hard as it is sometimes, it may be better to just say, ok, I let go. Perhaps the children could be moved into a pre-adoptive home and you could stay in touch as an extra "grandma". There are wonderful adoptive parents out there who would be very kind to the children and to you.

Unfortunately, you are single-handedly trying to hold this thing together. Your husband and stepdaughter are who they are and them changing at this point is unlikely. Perhaps you not holding things together anymore will give them a reason to get in gear.

Wishing you and your family the best.

Jami