[AmyAnne]

Found Austin with the Aim and Flame today, he burned a hole in a garbage bag. Of course he denied this at first.

I have no idea what a good consequence is. DH has reverted back to the way he was brought up and thinks a spanking is the way to go, which I don't believe.

ANY help would be great!

[PAmomof1]

How old is Austin? That would play a big part in the consequence IMO.

I remember I was caught playing with matches when I was eleven (kind of old I know).

My mother took me to the burn unit at our children's hospital One of the doctor's (probably just a resident) spoke to me about the dangers of playing with fire.

That was something I'll never forget.

[TexasJingles]

Unfortunately, we just went through this as well ... with all 3!

We were cleaning out the toybins before Christmas to make room and I found a burnt piece of paper (just one edge had been burnt) and a used match.

It was in T's bin and he confessed and ratted C out. J denied any involvement (that night). Seems they stole a small box of matches dh had taken out of the scout box (for what, he doesn't remember) and left in the truck. {theft #1}. Also, C stole a lighter I keep in my purse for birthday candles (no one smokes, but we always need a lighter) and also put it back {theft #2 and #3?}.

They admit they did this in the middle of the night and in the boys room. They seemed to have no thought as to why, or that they could have set the whole house on fire (we live in a, although very nice, mobile home...ie up in flames in seconds). Or even that the smoke could have killed J in his sleep in the top bunk (they swear he had nothing to do with the 1st time! ).

Sooooo....
1. I'm more careful in making sure my purse is in my room at all times. Funny how it was only a couple of times in 10 months.

2. No one leaves matches around and they are no longer in the scout box -- locked up unless we're using them for scouts, then locked back up.

3. EVERY SINGLE THING came out of their rooms except their beds. We made a HUGE deal of them losing our trust and how important that is in a family. Their dressers are now (and still) in our dining room (not just fire, but the sharp knife I found in T's clothes from him getting ready to run away...before the adoption -- which he took out of the dishwasher in the middle of the night as well). They've never kept their drawers so neat! They have slowly earned back some of their things (I thought about putting a padlock on their closet door).

4. There are now ALARMS on their bedroom doors (found cheap ones at Wal-mart -- 4 for $5 -- 2 didn't work but the other 2 will raise the dead!). We don't use them to lock them in, but to wake us up if the door is opened. Actually helping with the nightmares (no one can sneak in on them either). Oh, they had to pay for these.

5. We went back to line-of-sight supervision. Boy that really chapped their hides! That one lasted about a week and we've slowly been easing up.

6. They each had to write a report on the dangers of fire and why we don't play with it, but respect it. The little one (who still doesn't read or write very well) drew pictures and explained his "scribles".

I did threaten to take them to the burn unit at the children's hospital...and I still just might do that!

J finally admitted that he did it (all before adoption day) to see IF we'd still adopt him. He'd been hurt before by a couple that sent him away because of behaviors (really was that their family wouldn't support the idea of adoption). Looked a little shocked when I looked him right in the eye and said we still loved him, did adopt him, and weren't sending him anywhere, and it kind of backfired since we didn't find it until AFTER the adoption.

We still don't know why the other 2 did it.

What's with these guys! Man! Just gotta keep going though! Our therapist said we let up too soon.

[AmyAnne]

Austin is 8. I honestly think it was curiosity, but since he's had attachment issues, I have to address this as though it's part of an attachment issue, and not wait for a next time. Incidentally, we will be speaking to the therapist about this, and have made an appointment with a psychiatrist as well, so if this does have to do with attachment, we'll have it dealt with.

I am thinking of making him write a paper as was suggested. The fire safety council discourages calling the police or taking your child to the burn ward, I don't know about that one. I can't take things from his room, because he was in the kitchen, but I can make him go TO his room while I teach, I guess. All the matches and lighters are now locked up. I think I will also tell him his room will be randomly searched because we can't trust him right now.

I don't know what to do about the lying. I counted 3 lies in the course of this event, and that also needs to be addressed.

[GingerR]

Hi AmyAnne,

I haven't had experience with fire-starting, but on the subject of lying... most definitely!

When our fd does something wrong, then lies about it, we give her one consequence for the wrong-doing, and then another (greater) one for lying. We want her to understand that no matter what she did wrong, lying about it is always worse.

I'm not sure what the consequence should be for your son, but when you and your husband decide, I would explain to him that one is for the act itself, and the other for the lying that followed.

[ALI143]

Sort of OT...


I used to work with these firefighters and one time this guy in frusteration tells me, "You know, it's always the kids that don't have dads to take them camping that accidentially start fires!"
What does camping or dads have to do with it I asked and he said they don't get a chance to experiment with fire, learn the cause-effect thing, control in it, or that matches and lighters are tools.

So I hurridly make reservations at a beach for later that month and have let my son play with fire in a fire place when I'm there ever since. Now, I truly thought he'd be curious and grow out of it. NO! Now he ask, "When are going to make a fire?" "Why? I ask him."

"Cause I've got paper I want to throw in there!" So much for letting him experiment-now he's obsessed!

(PS A great book for spanky-husbands I found is-
Raising Cain:Protecting the emotional lives of boys )

[TexasJingles]

ALI143 -- speaking as a scout leader (both boy and girl), I would tell your son that paper is not allowed in the fire. Paper tends to fly (float) as it burns in a campfire and can be dangerous (I've seen it land and light nearby grass and float into the trees).

I know that people burn trash in fires, but we use this rule to discourage comments just like your son's. I've also taught kids about how every time we light a fire we add to the pollution problem so we don't light fires just to have one. Fires are tools that we use to warm us up, cook our food, and heat the water to clean us up.

Now, your firefighter friend is WAY off base (in my opinion). You don't have to go camping to learn how to light a match, or flick a bic. Mine had just been to camp and had used matches to light our fires there...so??? why at home where the house could have burned down??? Totally different problem.

By the way, I'm a mom and I take my kids camping. Dh wouldn't know a tent or firecircle if it bit him! LOL

[Zoe_B]

DH has reverted back to the way he was brought up and thinks a spanking is the way to go

I've seen this before, and can't understand how people can play by the rules, while fostering....then suddenly when they adopt, think its okay to assult their kids. We try and teach kids to be gentle and oppose violence, yet our actions condone hitting and violence.

I'm sorry to be rude, and i hate to judge people...but I think this is one issue that gets me riled up the most (with my own parents included).

[AwaitingBeloved]

Hi Amy,
DH's nephew used to have a fascination with the grill. Not quite the same, but still pretty dangerous.

The only thing that helped, was when I was watching Oprah, many many years ago with burn victims.

I called the nephew in, and told him to look at the people. He said they looked like monsters. I told him they are not monsters but they were burned very badly and if he continues to play near a grill or a hot stove when we ask him not to, he could get burned, too. And I told him that the scar on their skin, is nothing compared to the pain that they feel. I tried not to traumatize him, and I don't think that I did, but it worked.

Good luck. It's a very serious problem, as is the lying. It's great you're aware and handling it. Maybe when DH sees that speaking and words work, he'll feel less inclined to spank.

[AmyAnne]

Originally Posted by Zoe_B

I've seen this before, and can't understand how people can play by the rules, while fostering....then suddenly when they adopt, think its okay to assult their kids. We try and teach kids to be gentle and oppose violence, yet our actions condone hitting and violence.

I'm sorry to be rude, and i hate to judge people...but I think this is one issue that gets me riled up the most (with my own parents included).

He didn't hit our son. I it was what he wanted to do. He was still mad at that point, and once he calmed down was ready to talk. I can understand why it crossed his mind: he was angry and scared and in situations like that you tend to revert back to what you grew up with.

What I need is an idea for a consequence

[AwaitingBeloved]

Oh, sorry Amy. I misunderstood that, too! And yes, if I saw a kids hand near fire, I'd probably whack it out of the way myself.. then feel bad and explain why I did.. but sometimes safety first.

I think the approach you're taking (the paper, the psychiatrist, sending him to his room, letting him know you don't trust him and there will be random searches) are all great GREAT ideas.

Maybe the psychiatrist will have more ideas for you. I hope things smooth out for you. Sorry for your worry.

[ALI143]

I know TexasJingles, but I was a new mom way back then and thought, well he's the expert-it's practically child abuse not to let him play with fire! LOL....
After a decade I'm seasoned, but oh the things brand-new parents think they must do!

AmyAnne- I think your doing everything right. Fire just has to be treated in regards to attachment when there has been those issues.