[liddelow]

Hi, my partner and I have just started the fost/adopt process in Tucson. I have been reading with interest about time outs, time in (new concept to me). My question is if we are hoping to foster age 1-5, can anyone recommed some books on parenting techniques for us newbies. Or alternatively list your techinques, kind of like a comprehensive tooguide we can start to learn if we have never parented. I guess I was hoping perhaps there was a book that was like the bible of methods to use :-)
I was bought up with *rough* discipline and need to learn about positive and constructive methods to use with children who have already been hurt and had their trust broken. When we filled out the paperwork on how we would disclipline I put time out and positive reinforement, ie some kind of board with stickers and reward. Yesterday when we did roleplays in our class I realized we dont really know any other methods - yet. All thoughts appreciated! Thankyou.

[Kate1129]

The Love and Logic books are great! There is one for general parenting and then there is one for toddlers.


That's our style of parenting.

[Howdy]

I like the Love and Logic parenting method by Jim Fay and Foster Cline (method not original with them, but they have lots of real examples on their tapes, I'd recommend the tapes before the book, because the parents' tone of voice is very important and I don't think the books portray the tone sufficiently). They have several books (regular, toddler, teenager versions) and zillions of tapes (the set called Life Saving Kit has several of their best tapes). They also have a website and I think a magazine (not positive about that). I'd guess right now they would be the closest to having the 'bible' of parenting techniques. It is all one technique, but fleshed out so it is easy to learn (tho it takes practice).

I find it necessary to listen to the tapes over and over (I check them out from the library and listen in the car).

Basically the L&L method is to let kids make mistakes and let them live with the consequences while expressing love and empathy about their feelings. It also throws problems back on the kids to solve. And the parents don't tell the kids what they can't do, they tell the kids what they (the parents) are going to do. And a biggie is to give the kids choices.

Giving a choice is one of the best ways to handle problems. It is especially good with children who have a need to feel in control (kids in foster care usually have a HUGE need to be in control).

I forget the name of the person who the L&L authors learned from, but also the authors of "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk" learned from the same guy (I presume that guy died a long time ago). One thing I like about the L&L authors is that they have had foster and adopted children as well as bio children.

That latter book (How to Talk..etc) is really good too. They have video tapes (not sure if currently published, I've checked them out from my library) that show how to support childrens' feelings.

[TexasJingles]

I like Love and Logic as well, but we're not using it exclusively.

The reason is that our kids didn't have the skills needed to "worry" about what was going to happen (L&L requires delayed consequenses -- ex. You've taken so much energy from me with your actions, I'm going to have to think about your consequences. kind of reminds me of the saying back in the 50's of "you just wait until your father gets home!"). That just didn't work with the kids or my hd. Worked for ME and the kids, not him. And you have to be on the same page.

So, we use Assertive Discipline by Lee Cantor. You will find a LOT out there on his method being used in school classrooms. However, he did put a book out about parenting with it. I can't give you the title because our therapist just gave us a few pages of examples from the book. I don't even know if the book is in publication.

Now, something that I highly reccommend is making an "Anger Rule" poster. It is ok to get angry, but... 1. Don't hurt yourself, 2. Don't hurt others, 3. Don't hurt property, and 4. DO talk about it!

Foster kids have a LOT to be angry about and tantrums come with the territory. We go over anger rules several times a day so even those that can't read learn them.

We also have a morning routine chart posted in every bedroom, as well as a dry erase board in the kitchen with them on it so they can check them off (2 marbles if they do it without any reminders, 1 with reminders, 0 if they don't do something on the list .... yes, we have a marble jar for each child which they use as "money" to buy priviledges, treasure box items (dollar store things), toys, TV time, coupons for just about anything a child could want). This is all Lee Cantor's, just modified for our house and our kids.

On this morning chart, I have drawn a picture of the things (to the best of my ability) so that my non-reader can do it without help. It has things like make bed, brush teeth, get dressed, laundry in the laundry room-sorted, pj's under the pillow (they would wear a clean set every night if I don't watch...I wondered why I'd have a huge pile of laundry every day!), pick up room and be polite.

Best advice I can give is learn the art of picking your battles. Know when to ignore, which is very hard for my dh as he thinks they are getting away with something. Become the "broken record" that L&L advocates "I love you too much to argue about that".

We've learned that the kids don't know how to act because no one ever taught them the "correct" way to interact with others. We do a LOT of teachable moments.

Choices are great! "you can either put that down or give it to me"... "you can play quietly here or go play in your room (or outside)"... which IS L&L. Just make sure you can live with either choice.

Hope that helps!

[karenw]

anything by Nancy Thomas. I recommend reading "regular" parenting stuff, but certainly not everything will work with "hurt" kids. "Attaching in Adoption" by Deborah Gray is very good. I also recommend having a therapist with experience in foster kids. this is hard to preselect because age of kids may vary. come here with lots of questions, there is a lot of great experience!!!
Good Luck,
karen

[AmyAnne]

I also advocate the use of "Choices" and choosing battles. One we had early on was the dinner table. A would start fights NIGHTLY during supper. I finally explained that the dinner table was not a war zone. He could follow our rules, but if he wished to argue about them, we would not be accepting discussions until the table was cleared. So if this was an "I don't want that" type of fight, this gave him 30 minutes to chill out and possibly eat the 2-3 bites of the food he didn't want without being able to argue about it. When he continued arguing the one night, I sent him from the table and let him come back when we were finished eating. A was APPALLED that he'd been sent away from family dinner, and never did it again.

[tybeemarie]

Nancy Thomas is a goddess! Check out any of her materials. I also love Love and Logic. Parenting the Hurt Child by Gregory Keck and Regina Kupecky is a must read. Attaching in Adoption by Deborah Gray is also a great book. Good luck!

[GeorgiaGal]

I'm also a single foster parent who had always babysat a lot of kids but don't have any birth children. Rule #1 to remember is that depending on what the child's background is, they may not respond to corrective measures the way that kids from "normal" backgrounds do. Sometimes you have to do reverse psychology with them to correct a behavior.

For most kids reinforcing the good behaviors with sticker charts and rewards are great. The rewards don't have to be expensive. With my 5-year-old we have a sticker chart and for each day her behavior is overall good with no time-outs/restrictions she gets a sticker, and when she has 10 stickers she gets to go to the "grab bag" which is a bag of items I picked up at the dollar store. She has to reach into the dark bag and pull a prize out ... and it's a total surprise because she has no idea what all is in there.

If a child has been abused (and many have) they've usually been told by the abuser that "x" happened because they had been bad. Therefore it's not uncommon for these kids to act up more, at least at first, because they're trying to get you to also abuse them because they've been taught that they're bad kids...or they're trying to get you to ask that they be moved because they feel that they're unworthy of true acceptance. It takes a lot of reinforcement that they're good kids and are loved to get through those barriers that have been put up in their minds and souls.

For the creative psychology sometimes what works best is to handle a situation the reverse of what would work with most kids. For example, an 8-year-old child I had absolutely freaked out the first time I sent her to her room for misbehaving. What we didn't know at that time was that later it was found out that this child would be locked into her room for hours on end by her birth parents, so when I sent her to her room she freaked out being fearful that I was going to lock her in. It took me over 30 minutes to get her out of the corner of the room and convinced that nothing bad was going to happen to her. From that point on time outs were spent in the living room with the TV off.

Others have referred to the Love and Logic information and it is incredible. I have used these types of techniques with kids well before I even heard about them and went to a L&L seminar this past spring. The 1st time a prior foster child kept acting up after being warned that if the negative behavior didn't stop they couldn't get an ice cream when we all went to the park later and they weren't allowed to get one when everyone else got one really caught his attention, and he learned that just because his brother and I were getting an ice cream didn't mean he automatically would get one... he had to earn that privilege.

Speaking of privileges a lot of kids respond better to that word as opposed to the word "restriction." Therefore instead of asking junior to pick up his toys or he can't go to McDonald's for a happy meal for lunch tell the child that if they do a great job of picking up their toys without being asked twice then you'll take them to McDonald's for lunch.

Remember each kid is different and you will have to figure out what parenting style works best with the child. With my 5-year-old one of the rules we have is that she has to be in bed at 8 p.m. because if she's not she always behaves worse the next day. This means that on Wednesday nights I don't stay for the entire choir practice at church because I keep her on schedule, regardless of what others may think. After all they're not the ones living with the child and for those that are schedule sensitive they have no idea how even a 30 minute of change in schedule can put some kids off track behavior-wise.

For reverse psychology trying playing up the positives instead of the negatives. For instance, if a 3-year-old isn't picking up their toys when asked then show the child a picture of the room with the toys all put away and say "doesn't the picture of this room look great? I bet you can get the toys up so it looks like this again!" For a lot of kids giving them a visual picture of how the rooms are supposed to look helps them remember, especially as they get older, what the "goal" is for the appearance of a room.

[mallory4]

The books I like best are:

Positive Discipline for Preschoolers By Jane Nelson--even though it has preschoolers in the title, it is the best of her books for learning what she is talking about. If you are dealing with older kids, you might want to read Preschoolers first and then go on to the books about other ages.

How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk--by Faber and Mazlish--this is an old classic, very positive and easy to use.

Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka --this one is especially if you are working with or parenting kids who are hyper, have sensory issues, etc. This book is the reason my oldest child is still alive, LOL. She also has a great book called Kids, Parents and Power Struggles.

The Out-of-Sync Child (can't remember the author)--great for helping us recognize issues, like sensory integration problems--that we might be interpreting as misbehavior or willful brattiness, but really aren't.

With any parenting book you like and believe in, my advice is to read it, see how it goes in real life, and read it again. You will be surprised how much stuff you re-discover just when you need it most

[Zoe_B]

Love love love the " How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk." So, Mallory, I'll have to check out your other titles! I love anything that respects children, and uses a positive parenting philosophy.

I was also raised with an authoritarian style and find myself at a loss, when I know what I don't want to do, but not sure what I *should* do instead. This book has really eliminated a lot of the battles with our 4 year old, in just the way we word things.

We can avoid issues alltogether by simply saying "Isaac, the bathroom light is on." and he comes to his own conclusion to turn off the light. Instead of asking ten times for him to "turn off the light."

Or, instead of asking him to get his shoes on, we just start heading outside and he comes to his own conclusion that he should probably get his shoes on.

Awesome book!

[mallory4]

For Zoe B or any others raised in an authoritarian atmosphere and looking for a more positive route, I can't believe I forgot to mention Barbara Coloroso's "Kids Are Worth It". She has great metaphors (brick wall family, jellyfish family, backbone family) for too rigid, too wishy-washy, and structured but flexible parenting styles that made it very easy for me to see when my parent's style was creeping into my family life and why. Very helpful, and ALL positive.
This is a book I promised myself to reread annually because it has such different impact as the kiddos grow.

[Mammie]

Hi liddelow,

Well, I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring as well - although I am gonna sound like an echo chamber!

***LOVE**** "Love and Logic" by Fay and Cline.

****SUPER****"How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" by Faber and Mazlish.

***GREAT*** "1,2,3 Magic" by Thomas W. Phelans

****MUST HAVE**** (if you have RAD kids - though any hurting foster child could benefit) "When Love is not enough" by Nancy Thomas.

And I enjoy most things by James Dobson - HOWEVER, his books are strictly a Christian point of view that does include spanking (which we as foster parents can not do). "Strong Willed Child" is a good one.

We have a fairly vast array of tricks to use in our 'disapline arsenal'. I have one shelf on my booksheves devoted to disapline (probably about 12 on disapline - with the ones formention being the ones I go to time and again).

With foster children, one must get pretty creative. What does not work with one, will work with another.

I don't know about your area, but check out any of the parenting workshops that are offered. I have taken workshops on "How to talk..." and "L & L" through our county extention, and have taken a STEP (Systematic Training for Effective Parenting) class through a local CARE organization.

Also, as a side note, look into any 'alternative to anger' or 'anger management' classes. Consider one of those classes as an extra shot of vitiamn B! You may think you are in control of your emotions, but foster children will 'ride you' till one day you discover - hey, maybe some extra review on controlling my anger may not be such a bad idea after all!

Truly, I think alternatives to anger should be a part of basic training for all foster parents to take!

Good Luck and happy reading!

OH - by the way, TIME IN works great with some kids - and I have had great success with it. But if the child like to annoy you, do not use this one!

[Zoe_B]

Originally Posted by mallory4

For Zoe B or any others raised in an authoritarian atmosphere and looking for a more positive route, I can't believe I forgot to mention Barbara Coloroso's "Kids Are Worth It". She has great metaphors (brick wall family, jellyfish family, backbone family) for too rigid, too wishy-washy, and structured but flexible parenting styles that made it very easy for me to see when my parent's style was creeping into my family life and why. Very helpful, and ALL positive.
This is a book I promised myself to reread annually because it has such different impact as the kiddos grow.

Thank you! I'll check it out.

[Zoe_B]

Yippee! I have four books ordered. Thanks to this thread, LOL.

[Lorraine123]

I saw where some parents here recommended using food as a reward or punishment. I don't recommend that. Many children in foster care have eating issues. Often food was withheld. These children need to learn that food is provided independently of behavior. Just wanted to point that out. Otherwise, you have gotten extremely great suggestions.