[tybeemarie]

How sad this all is. The poor kids. I am sorry your son had to experience some inappropriate language from the 11 year old. God only knows what horrible things this little girl has experienced that taught her to speak this way! And how very disappointing that the social worker's reaction to the mention of trauma reactivity was to say, well, it doesn't matter, because the county's not separating them no matter what. These children, all children, need to be looked at and treated as individuals, not as part of a class of individuals who are subject to county-wide policies and regulations. Child welfare should be more responsive and more child-centered than an insurance company. I can only imagine the poor quality of therapy these poor children receive. So depressing. I'll say a prayer for them.

[kllee4]

Just wanted to send some (((hugs))) your way today and kudos to you and your family for being there for the kids and doing all that you could to be their soft place to fall.

[1CASA]

WOW! You sound a "little" overwhelmed. I work as a court appointed special advocate for foster children. THe behaviors you describe are pretty typical. Behaviors in children stripped from their homes and families and everything they knew can vary greatly. Foster children generally have self-esteem issues and think the removal and any moves are their fault. A natural reaction would be "let's see how long it takes these people to get rid of us because we're so bad." Did you have a plan in place before the children got there? Did you notify them of the rule of your household? Did you clearly identify the consequences? Some of these children have been through things adults couldn't mentally survive. It takes a lot of patience and uncondition love even to be a respite foster care provider. You may want to rethink your decision.

[dadfor2]

1casa,

I realize you have alot of experinece with these kids in foster court as a appointed special advocate for foster children.

I know you mentioned for her to rethink her position....

but i think whoonethis..did a great job actually. sure, she was very overwhelmed, who wouldnt be...but i think the problem lies with people who have worked with kids,
who know these kids, like DSS, and probably really should educate some more on what these children bring.

they touch on it, but its not like anything that i have witnessed.

i think most adoptive/ foster parents learn through experience and forced to educate themselves...it shouldnt be that way. the education should come first, then the experience. especially since we are dealing with children.

im not sure how many adoptive parents or foster parents, if we were told that this is the way your life will be...would even think about going through with it.

maybe thats the reason why they dont tell you this, because thenalot of people would back out...

believe me, if i saw a video on what my kids looked like while living in a foster home or whatever, i would of run for the hills...

verbally if i hear..."has trouble with limit setting"......it sounds so doable.....but if i saw what a child looked like who had trouble with limit setting...beleive me, it would not be what i invisioned.

I think whonethis learned alot with the kids...she was open and clearly was overwhelmed....

I remember the feelings i had with my older son, and they were not warm fuzzies....


who knows, as she sees these behaviors first hand, she might be more equipped to handle an adoptive child from the system due to what she has learned.

i agree, alot of patience.....but i think a well informed parent makes a better parent. And i think DSS could do a better job on training.

i would of loved to see a video of a child in the system who experienced trauma and how that looks.

but we didnt get that....everything i learned has been baptised by fire....i had no choice but to educate myself on these behaviors..

Just to be clear, i dont regret my decision, i love my boys, but i would of got so angry while i was going through the craziness with my boys, someone say "well, you better rethink your decision"

its not about rethinking a decision, its about knowing where the support is, if the children start with those RAD behaviors....

alot of people dont know....

[tybeemarie]

Dadfor2,

I totally agree with you. I think it was great that whoownsthis was so open with us here, that she did so much of her own research to try to learn how to parent these children, that she really did a careful self-examination to honestly assess what type of children she could parent.

I think we ALL were shocked when we first were confronted with the reality of the behavior of traumatized children. Reading about it is one thing. Being a professional in the child welfare field is one thing. But living it is another. NOTHING is like parenting a foster child.

And I agree that the training you receive as a foster parent is entirely inadequate to the demands of therapeutic parenting. It is terrible that you have to be a ferocious advocate for your family to get truly competent trained professionals--ALL foster children should get these services, and they plainly do not.

I do think a lot of people would be appalled to see the behavior issues lived out, and many people would go running for the hills, screaming every step of the way. But others wouldn't, particularly if there were true professionals who were there to support you. So often social workers function as probation officers rather than as clinicians.

Anyway, you said it better than I did, Dadfor2, but I wanted to offer whoownsthis my support, too. God knows we foster parents need it!

[ingodshands]

In answer to your question, "Do all foster kids have issues?"

As a former foster kid myself I would say YES, (but depending on the circumstances prior to foster home, different levels of severity) purely because the life I had known, mother, father, siblings, was ripped apart, and siblings sent to different foster homes, mother never to be seen again, etc. There were issues, such as not being able to trust, not being able to bond, not being able to validate or talk about how I was feeling. Probably the biggest issue of all for me was ANGER. Anger at the whole wide world...for I did not choose for my life to be this way, it was chosen for me, by, yep, ADULTS. Having no choice leads to frustration, helplessness, and that leads to anger. I am NOT saying bad behaviour is acceptable, but it is understandable, given the circumstances.

Saying this, SOME of your foster kids behaviour does sound like normal kids acting up, pushing, to see what they can and cannot get away with, in my experience, most kids do this to a certain degree...

Really listen to Dadfor2's advice, he has hit the nail on the head, and in my opinion knows from experience EXACTLY what he is talking about, he has a very good feel for foster kids and their emotions, shame he wasn't my foster dad a few years ago!

Collette

[Lorraine123]

Living with these damaged children is a whole different ball game compared to reading about it or hearing about it. I could not have imagined a child behaving like what I have seen. I had no idea how deep the wounds really are.

Our social worker told us once that she could never fully understand what we were going through (she has two bio children) because she isn't in the trenches daily. I appreciated her honesty. If she had implied that she was more experienced than I was, I would have been highly insulted.

You can learned in class about rages, about self hurting, about holding, about rejection. But seeing the person you love more than yourself fighting to get away from you because they think you will hurt them, or see them hurting themselves because they have no self-respect, or holding them as they fight you with their very lives. That is a reality that no one can imagine without living it. It hurts so much to realize that you can't really help, you can only be there.

My daughter rejects our love daily. I had no idea how that would feel. I love her with all that I have and she hates me because of it, but yet will freely hug our neighbor or grocery store clerk. No one can imagine how that feels until they have been there.

My husband and I went on a mini vacation last week end (first time away in 2 years - we have earned it). When we came back, we placed bets on whether our daughter would be glad to see us. I lost the bet. When she saw us she said "oh man, did you have to come back?". People can empathize and say wow that must have hurt. But no one can fully understand the depth of the hurt unless they have been there.

That is what unconditional love is all about. We love our children even when they don't love us. Even when they have no intention of loving us. Our unconditional love is tested every single day.

I have met more parents on these boards who live a life of unconditional love. All parents say they love their children unconditionally, but ours is truly tested.

[ingodshands]

Just wanted to say, I hope things improve with your daughter, and maybe one day the trust will grow enough for her to show loving feelings towards you. It must be very hard, and I admire you for hanging in there, and still giving her 100 per cent unconditional love.

HUGS

Collette

[tybeemarie]

Oh, Lorraine, your post breaks my heart! I have had a taste of the pain you are living through, and BOY does it HURT! There are more days my children are loving than not, and still, the day my daughter said to me, as I was at the computer getting driving directions for a family hiking trip, "Are YOU going?" it was like a knife in my heart. How excruciating it must have been to have your daughter say something so hurtful when you got back from your vacation! I really am sorry.

I admire and honor you for your profound commitment to your daughter. Your love for her shines through in your posts. There are very few people who would be able to love a child so completely as you do when the child cannot return the love, or at least cannot demonstrate their love. You are so right when you say your love for your daughter is unconditional. It is humbling to see such an awesome mother like you at work. Truly, you are doing God's work. I am honored to know you. Peace.

[faithmylord]

Quick note about girl children. I have 2 ages 4 and 10. Girls are sssssssssssssoooooooo much more complicated than boys. My girls are wonderful, sweet, kind, attentive, helpful, loving, and all the other things little girls are made of. But, I must say they are "women at heart" they can be ugly, katty, unkind, deseptive, mean and tattletales...
There is so much more going on in the head of a young lady at the ages you described than boys the same age.
Don't give up on foster kids because of one bad experience. Maybe you should stick with boy children. But don't let your kindness towards the FC children be spoiled by one unfortunate event. I am in the process of trying to get some boys in my life, and words of wisdom??? (smile) Peace & Joy,C

[dadfor2]

faithmylord,

well actually i have to disagree. I dont think there is much difference from a boy or girl who has been abused,
neglected, and abandoned and what behaviors they bring with them

i have boys...and believe me, my older one, is one strong fighter. I dont find him easy at all....

ingodshands....you give me far tomuch credit...there are days when my love and patience are tested and tested and sometimes i just want to call the men in the white coats and take me away.....lol

lorraine can attest to that...lol...she was there when i had no clue on what i was doing when myboys came to me......

and it was people like lorraine and many others who educated me and taught me how to parent my kids differently.

i think like most of us, we were forces into foster kids 101 weather we liked it or not...we just wanted to survive.

But throught the years we learn, we understand our kids so much better, and we know what to expect from them..(of course then there are surprises..... )

its nice to hear someone who had experienced what our kids have experienced and survived......its nice to know that these kids can turn out alright...

so thanks ingodshands...nothing like hearing from someone who has been through it themselves.

[dadfor2]

lol....i just noticed that one of my threads that i started a while back is on the 'Similar Threads' underneath this thread..

its called 'normal kids'

alot of people contributed to that thread, and i find its perfect how it goes with this thread.....

i wondered where that thread went...and here it is...

[ingodshands]

Quote:

"ingodshands....you give me far tomuch credit...there are days when my love and patience are tested and tested and sometimes i just want to call the men in the white coats and take me away.....lol"

I do not think I gave you too much credit, you deserve it, along with a lot of the other foster parents on this forum, who give unconditional love and safe, happy homes to kids that need it.

Quote:
"its nice to hear someone who had experienced what our kids have experienced and survived......its nice to know that these kids can turn out alright..."

Yes, I survived, I have had counselling recently to help me deal with a lot of "buried stuff" that was never talked about over the years. I think adults sometimes think if kids do not discuss or hear discussions of what happened to them in their early life prior to being fostered, (sometimes fostered in many homes) then it will all be forgotten, and they will get over it easier, WRONG. It hits like a ton of bricks later in life. I knew never to talk of what happened, like everyone around me, consequently my memory is pretty much blank for a couple of years from about age 7-9/10. So, it got buried. All that pain....that cannot be healthy.

Also, a point regarding being moved from one placement to another. When you are a child/teenager, and you are moved from placement to placement WITHOUT any knowledge of WHY you are being moved, sometimes being moved totally out of the blue - very unexpected, you begin to ask yourself "What did I do?" "What is wrong with me?" When it happens repeatedly you convince yourself it is a problem within yourself. You are damaged goods.

I have only recently found out I was moved from 3 placements due to marriages falling apart, (this was on social services records) I didn't know that! I ASSUMED it was something to do with me, and the kind of person I was....

My advice to any foster parents that are having problems with their kids, is to try and talk with them, one on one, gently, try and coax them into talking, a little to start with, then build it up, so they talk openly about their past, if they can, and if they can remember.

If they can talk to you in confidence it builds the trust.

I think you all are wonderful how you are so committed, and give everything you have emotionally, keep up the good work

Collette

[Lorraine123]

Collette -

Thank you for sharing your story. It is so helpful to hear from others who have lived through this and came out successful!!!! Stories like yours keep me going each day.

Lorraine

[whoownsthis]

Ay, yay, yay! Just found out yesterday from social worker that the 11-yr-old girl we were having so many problems with during respite care a couple of weeks ago just got suspended from school for threatening to kill her teacher! EEK!!! Even if she was just trying to get attention, the school won't tolerate these kinds of threats.

Meanwhile, the judge FINALLY issued the TPR ruling on Monday. The social worker was going to tell the kids today at the therapist's office. Hopefully this will ease some of their anxiety and help with their behaviors. (The 9-yr-old boy was sent home last week for taking matches to school, saying he wanted to "light a fire" at recess.) ?!

These kids are so desperate for the right kind of therapy. Why on earth won't our county provide it?! Why aren't university psychology departments encouraging more of their students to go into attachment therapy??? The nearest registered clinician in our state is nearly 3 hours away!

...On a happier note, we met the three girls we were selected for from another state and spent the whole day with them on Wednesday. I started this post asking if their social worker and foster mom could have been glossing over the truth when they told us the girls were "well-behaved" and "play well together." It turns out it was true! Not once did they argue or fight over coloring books or who got to ride on the swing first. They took turns, and without our even directing them to do so! They shared! They pushed each other on the swings and slid down the slide together. It was amazing! Of course, we realize that any changes like moving out of foster home into ours will likely stir up trouble and they will probably regress some.