[tybeemarie]

Well, the honeymoon is officially over. Today, my 9 year old foster daughter broke my nose. She was tantruming like mad over doing homework, pushed a chair into a wall and dented the wall, then kicked her brother. So, I had to restrain her, and she head butted me and broke my nose. Yesterday, she hit her 7 year old brother in the face with a snow shovel. He was okay, thank goodness. I got back from the ER, and fortunately, it's a pretty clean break and it didn't have to be reset. I will follow up with a plastic surgeon in a few days.

So, my nose will be okay, I think. It is more the emotional aftermath of this. After I left for the ER, my daughter was hell on wheels for my husband as he was trying to put her brother and sister to bed. She said she hates us and the whole family and doesn't care that she broke her nose. My DH tried to get her to stay in her room so he could put the younger two to bed. She slammed the door until she cracked the door molding. The DH took the door off the hinges. She kept coming out and then announced that what she says are lies. They talked and my DH asked her if she were so unhappy living with us that she would like to move. She said no, she liked living with us, that she loves us both.

I came home, and she came down stairs with a smart aleck look on her face, sort of pleased. I told her to go up to her room, that I was talking to her father. I just could not deal with her at that point. She went up, but then came back down, claiming she had something to ask her Dad. We sent her upstairs again. My DH asked me to talk to her. The terrible truth is that I am still very, very annoyed that I have a broken nose. There is not enough juice in the tank for me to say, "I know you didn't mean to break my nose, honey, we still love you." For one thing, I feel she DID mean to hurt me as much as she could. I DON'T think it's okay that she is violent. And, I don't feel particularly loving at this point. I feel annoyed. I want some space away from her. She has been very, very aggravating this week, to the point that I actually enjoyed my time at the emergency room. It felt calm, soothing. While I felt soothed, I thought, when you prefer sitting in a crowded ER with a broken nose to being at home with your daughter, you know things are bad.

One issue she raised with the DH was, what about school? We live in Chicago, but we are very involved in our church and the kids go to our church's parochial school. She says she doesn't have any friends (which is actually untrue--she's been invited to 2 birthday parties and we had a playdate at a McDonald's Playland with another child in the 2 months we've had her), and if this gets out, then no one will like her.

It is a little depressing that her concern about breaking my nose is not centered on the violence within her, or my well-being, but instead on what other people will think, but it is natural for a 4th grade girl, I suppose. And I was wondering myself, what do I say when people ask about my broken nose and, possibly, blackened eyes? I feel I should let the principal and teacher know so they know that they are dealing with a potentially violent child, but otherwise, I thought I would say to people, "Don't ask." I also think people will put two and two together, but it feels wrong to announce, "Oh, my oldest daughter broke my nose in a fit of rage over spelling homework." And she's right, I think her peers would be absolutely appalled by her behavior.

One thing I decided while at the ER is that I am following the Love and Logic policy about homework: it is her responsibility, and if she fails, that is her problem. I will never again deal with a homework tantrum. I will set a time for doing homework, I will have her sit at a desk in the family room while I do homework with the other 2 in the kitchen, and when the time for homework is done, she can leave the desk, whether she's done or not. I should have done this from the beginning, but it is hard to give up middle class values about the importance of education. My broken nose has done that for me. While she has the intelligence to do school work, she has decided she doesn't want to do it, and I can't make her do it. Hopefully, she can advance to 5th grade next year. If not, well, we can re-evaluate whether private school is worth the investment. I think it probably will be if for no other reason than Catholic schools do not tolerate misbehavior, and consequently, our kids do not misbehave at school. (They save that for home.)

Call me naive, but I really never anticipated being in this position. I know many foster parents experience violence at the hands of their foster children, but I didn't think I had one of those kids. Surprise! The younger two are getting noticeably better with routines and behavior. They can still be plenty annoying, believe me, but they know the rules pretty well, and most of the time, they really want to do the right thing. They love us and want to be adopted right away. The oldest loves us, too, but she is just not well. The therapists (not attachment therapists--I've requested a thorough assessment of their clinical needs be done, which the agency agrees with and is now making its slow journey through the state) say her behavior is within the normal parameters of a child her age who has experienced multiple placements and abuse and neglect. They see positives in all that she's willing to share in terms of her horrific past, her willingness to try to express her feelings by writing things out in letters to us, by drawing, by wanting us to give her attention and affection. The negatives are daily behavior problems and violent expressions of frustration. I think she is trying, but her emotional problems overwhelm her. What do you all think? Is this normal behavior for a foster child? How would you handle this situation? Sorry for this very long post. I needed to vent, and truly no one who's not a foster parent could understand what this is like.

[lucyjoy]

I think it's normal for an attachment disordered foster child. Be sure to report the violence and keep a log stating her attitude before, during, and after the incident.

Do not cover for her so kids will like her if you believe she intended to injure you. She needs to be held accoutable. She owes you time for the time you spent in the ER(she doesn't need to know it was relaxing).

Glad you decided not to fight homework. It does need to be her concern and the school can deal with it. If she fails 5th grade, its taught every year so maybe the school will let her take it over again. Or some nice summer school may be available.

Sorry you were injured. Hope you heal quickly.

[pugsooie]

I agree w/ lucyjoy.

I am thinking maybe you should mention to her (since she is so concerned about what other's are thinking about her) what others will think if she flunks the 4th grade and has to repeat it. Wouldn't she like to get it over with? I have heard that this issue works sometimes.

Good luck and I hope your nose gets back to normal.

[susanlowman]

Sorry about the broken nose! You really sound like you have been thru "enough". I would NOT cover for her. If people ask (and you feel like telling them) tell them! Let you daughter KNOW there are consequences to everything ... maybe next time she has a "rage fit" she will remember.

Remeber, it is HER problem, not yours! Good luck with your nose.

[L-A-J-C-R-C]

Hi Tybeemarie,

I hope your nose heals quickly! I have only had 1 child (out of 9) that was violent to that point and he was only 2-1/2. He began hurting my other kids that were younger than him (including his medically-fragile brother) and I had to have him moved.

We are in the process of having our dd evaluated for RAD and she has rages but no where near that extent. Her MO is usually screaming, stamping the feet and, maybe throwing/breaking things (she's also only 3 LOL).

I'm sorry but I would not tolerate that behavior. I'm not saying to have her moved, I just wouldn't be all lovey-dovey forgiving to her. I agree with Lucy that it's normal behavior for a foster child with RAD but she needs to be taught it's not acceptable. Now, how you do that, I have no real help for you since we're in the beginning stages of this too. I would not, however, hide the fact that she did this to you from anyone! She needs to learn to take responsibility for her actions. If it costs her friends, oh well, maybe next time she'll try a healthier way to express her anger/frustration! I also agree that if she's so worried about what her friends think she should be reminded that if she needs to repeat 4th grade her friends are still going to move up to 5th and she'll have to start over making new friends.

Best of luck to you. I hope things settle down for you and that this was the only "test" she'll be putting you through.

Michelle

[pez collector]

Tybee- I just finished reading another thread that might help you. It was started by "jhenrie" under the "Special Needs Adoption" area. It is titled "The "struggle" begins!". I hope that things go better for you. It has to be so frustrating for you and your husband. I am glad that you are receiving some good advice. I will add your family to my prayers. God Bless.

[dadfor2]

tybeemarie,

wow...i can understand what your going through...

have you kept a little journal of when she has her rages...so you can get a clearer picuture on whats causing them?

little did we know..that our son had a 'language processing' issue....which means if we gave him more then one direction at a time, he would get frustrated...and well....you know the rest...

also, tone of voice was huge...."son, please take you feet off the table"....it all depended on how i said it, and how he would react to it.

if he felt my tone was negative, or angry, he would just go off...

again, this has been our experience, so im giving you some other ideas to think about here.

'going to your room'.....watch out...were looking at a few hours of rages if we were to do that...

anyway, keep posting....but i strongly suggest you get some sort of journal and start writing down day of the week, time, and incident and what happened previously...if you do this for a couple of weeks, you will get a clearer picture on what is setting her off.

i wouldnt tolerate that behavior,if she is violent and hurting the other children, then she shouldnt be allowed to live in your house.

and yes, i would even tell her that...her behaviors are not acceptable...and the fact that going to the EW was a place for you to breath, says alot.

mine was the grocery store....and i hate grocery shopping, but it was the one place i could go by myself and just breath....

i read every label on everything i put in my cart... ..anything then going back to the war zone.

[HappyMomAnna]

((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))

I completely understand exactly how you are feeling right now.

Six weeks after our children were placed (two years ago) our Five year old shoved me backword over the baby gate and well---surgery a year ago has not been sucessful for regaining the feeling in my left leg.....

It actually took me a little while to even accept the fact this happened from her RAGE and admit that a child this age purposfully hurt me.... It is hard to accept this is how any person might treat another....Hard to make yourself believe that this is not pure evil! And hard to feel that loving feeling when you are hiped up on pain meds and dealing with the realities that a child could want to hurt you...

I agree that EVERYTHING should be documented with DHS and in writing is how I feel this needs to be done. The next ER visit could be a sibling or even her and you do want to make sure everyone with power understands the dynamics that you are dealing with.....

I can also tell you that even with my injury--and even surgery and even not feeling my leg--I still find a way to male myself be MOTHERLY toward my child.... Not sure if you are planning to adopt these children.... but we have adopted our siblings and there are still days that I am MAD as a HAtter inside that I hurt as much as I do--I am an athlete and swimmer and physically fit and this is NOT what I planned to feel like at the age of 42--but--she matters more and she needs what I know how to give her--in order for her to learn that she can give me love in return...

Sorry this is the story so soon into the game--but, at least your FD is not withdrawn and sitting in her room plotting .. or anything else... I personally think it is a good sign when the honeymoon ends quickly

[Lorraine123]

I agree in not covering for her. She made the choice and she needs to live with it.

I don't know if this is best, but it works, we tell my daughter that she will not go on in school if she doesn't do her work. Since what others think of her is so important, it is a motivator. Maybe use that to curb some of the rages.

Good luck.

[tybeemarie]

Bless you all for your kind, compassionate responses. After I came home from the ER, first I talked to my DH, and the very next thing was get online with you all. I knew I would find compassion and wisdom here, and I was right.

On the nose front, I am very fortunate--no black eyes, just swelling. We'll see what the plastic surgeon says. (Never in my life did I dream that I would be saying or writing "we'll see what the plastic surgeon says"!)

Thanks for the support on not covering for her. My DH asked me this morning what our plan was, and I said, well, we are calling the supervisor and the 2 therapists, and I am going to speak to the school principal and the teacher so as not to put other children at risk. He said, no, no, what do we do when people ask about your broken nose? My gut said, either tell them, or if you're not up to it, just groan and say, "Don't ask." My thinking was, as you all have said, she did it, she should live with the consequences. I also thought that these children have lived with enough sick secrets in their life, let them experience openness. Thanks for confirming my gut.

I absolutely do need to keep a log. I am a lawyer, and I should have been doing so from the get go. Have I? No. Why? Because I get worn out, but more so because we were in the process of remodeling our house and in the process I was out of a home office. (I quit my job to be a stay at home mom. I stand in total awe of working foster parents. I cannot imagine the stress.) Tomorrow, it's off to Office Depot for a full set of office supplies, and I will treat this as I did my law cases. Not what one would wish to do with one's own family, but there it is. Thank God, at this point, our agency, the therapists, the school, and the lawyers think my husband and I are a godsend for these children. Obviously, these opinions can change on foster parents, as I know all too well from representing foster parents. And so, the documenting begins.

Anna, in answer to your question, we are definitely in this for adoption. Last night I asked myself, are you out of your mind? And apparently I am, because I am still committed to moving forward. In part this is because I am a very religious person. I prayed very fervently for God to send me my children, and when I met my 3 babies, I KNEW those were the ones. I was DEVASTATED when they were going to be adopted by their foster mother--who we now know was physically abusing them, exposing them to pornography and God knows what sexual activity, not feeding them adequately, rarely bathing them, never washing their clothes (the stench of their clothing when they came was nauseating), and committing medical neglect. At any rate, I feel God means for my DH and I to be their parents. This is now a taller order than I realized at first, but I do feel it's my path nonetheless.

One benefit of my broken nose is that, oddly, I feel calmer! I feel like, well, here we are. This is bad, but it could be worse. Dear Anna, I have read your posts with anguish and complete admiration for your dedication to your children. Your job seems much harder than mine. And Dad for Two, your older son's situation has broken my heart. That's a lot harder than my situation.

I recognize, of course, that it could get worse than this, and it probably will. But, another benefit of the broken nose is that it really grabs the attention of the social workers, and my request for a complete psychological evaluation is being rushed through and it will be done by the people I chose.

Also, it grabbed our attention. We are now truly motivated to live by the Love and Logic principles. I now accept, deep down, that I am not in control. You would think a religious person would have internalized that truth long ago, but apparently I haven't. Until now. It's so liberating! I am not responsible for her behavior! Woohoo!!!! I can and do provide a warm, structured environment, a community of faith, an excellent education, a loving and very excited extended family. She can, if she wishes, blossom. (And in fairness to her, she has made great strides in her reading, her hygiene--the kids truly had no idea what it was to be clean, when clothing was dirty, why you cleaned a bathroom--her willingness to let me be the mother to her younger siblings.) If not, well, she will still have a loving family. Today I thought, what does this violence of hers portend? What if it portends a life of violence and ultimately prison? She's still better off with us, because at least she'll have visitors. Now, I actually have a lot of hope for her. She is bright, she is very well-behaved at school, she makes friends, she is very sweet with our pets, she is interested in social justice (a big theme at her school), and really, she says and I believe that she wants to have a family.

She apologized to me this morning and said, "Mom, I was trying to say this to you last night, but you sent me upstairs. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to." I said, "Oh, yes, you did mean to hurt me, and you did. You have to be accountable for that." She didn't talk back, and really seemed rather cowed. The kids had to go to after care today because I had to take my son to see a dentist because he chipped his tooth (at a skating party, not due to the snowshovel in the face). Normally, this is very anxiety-producing for them, both because any medical appointments make them anxious for the absent sibling and also because they are afraid we won't pick them up. But the girls were VERY sweet and compliant. She apologized again in the car, saying, "Sorry about the nose, Mom." It wasn't a bad apology. The children were very well-behaved most of the night, the oldest was all night. Now, I think they are behaving so well because they're afraid we'll give them back now. But I do see some hope in their recognition that this was really serious, that it was wrong. And they do seem to want our approval.

Tonight, they eagerly discussed what they learned in religion class, which was a discussion of the 5th Commandment (Catholic numbering, I know other faiths number them differently) Thou shalt not kill. The oldest was very eloquent about the importance of using words to express disagreement and not violence. My son then asked me if anyone had ever bitten me. I said, "The only people who have ever bitten or hit or kicked me are you three. You are my only experience of violence." This made them uncomfortable, but it's true. Now, the youngest hasn't really tried to actually hurt me, and my son has kicked while being restrained, but I didn't get the sense he really was trying to hurt me and I haven't had to restrain him in weeks. He's making a lot of progress. No wet bed for about a month! They mess up, but they are basically okay. My oldest daughter, well, I think she has deeper issues. In a classic RAD pattern, this is something other people outside the family do not see at all. Thank God, the school believes my accounts of her behavior at home despite her good behavior at school.

Anyway, I am rambling now, tired Mama that I am. Thank you so much for your wonderful emails, all of you. It really is so healing for me, our little community here. You all are a blessing in my life. God bless all of you for taking time out of your very busy, very emotionally demanding lives to help another foster/adoptive parent. I'll let you know how all this works out.

[L-A-J-C-R-C]

Hi Tybeemarie,

I'm glad that your daughter came forward with a sincere apology and that you pointed out to her that she did, indeed, try to hurt you intentionally! She needed to know that you weren't fooled. Hopefully all 3 of the children have learned a valuable lesson from this experience (I know you have as you've written about it quite eloquently) and life will begin to go smoother from this point on.

Hopefully this is the worst test they will put you through to prove you'll not send them away. I think you did the right thing by sending her to her room for the night and dealing with it the next morning. It gave you a chance to calm down and regroup to think more clearly.

I'll keep you and your family in our prayers that God continues to give you the strength and wisdom to help your children adjust.

With best wishes,
Michelle

[dadfor2]

hi tybeemarie,

sounds like you got a handle on it...and thats great.

but i would put off finalizing for a bit...becuase once its finalized, then that changes everything.

i know you are set out to do this..which i admire you, but there is no rush to finalize, i dont think there are a lot of people standing in line for a angry girl with a violent behaviors.

the reason im saying this, if she starts to get real abusive to the other children, then she might need to go to residential.

if she is considered 'still in the system', it will be easier for you to access services.

its just a suggestion.

also, you can always use this forum as your log to...keep everyone updated and then you also have your documentation.

anna made a sort-of-journal with her thread, and i thought it was neat idea, plus she gets responces as part of her daughters journey.

thats another way to do it.

good luck, and where here when you need us...

[roomformore]

I totally agree with what SusanLowMan said above about not covering for her. If someone asks how your nose got broken I would tell them. Plus you dont want people thinking your hubby did it. I know they say shame is bad to use on kids but I personally think it is a great tool. It worked on me when I was a kid. I hated when my Mom would shake her finger and say "shame, shame on you" and make me feel guilty. I remember that feeling of being ashamed of something I did-in fact I would even call it getting in tune with or listening to my CONSCIENCE. I am not suggesting shaming her with this but when someone asks I would definately tell them who did it. Maybe she will think before her next rage of what others will think.

[TexasJingles]

At last!!! We're not alone in things like this!

We had our 3 kids about 6 weeks when the "honeymoon" was over. Our oldest in 10, 4th grade. He had not been with his 2 younger sibs in a few years. We had not heard about any negative behavior on him, even though he is the one with the physical scars. Our placement worker (we are with a private agency that works with CPS), warned us that he just might regress, and he did!

It was the 1st night that I had to work late and was not home. My dh was by himself. I am a teacher and am used to children of all types, but he is a bill collector and still getting used to the idea that you cannot raise your voice to these kids without setting them off (well, that's actually getting better the longer they are with us -- on both sides).

That day, M's teacher had asked him to stop tapping on the board with the marker (he's ADHD), I had told him that he either offered to share his chips he brought home from school or put them up until later when he was by himself (this was on the phone), and then dh told him he couldn't ride his skateboard without helmet and pads. I guess this was too much correction for one day and he went balistic! Trashed his room, cussed us out, said he was going to kill us, run away, you name it. At 1st, the other 2 stayed out of it and dh was keeping it somewhat under control. He called me, he called our worker, he couldn't remember how to do the holds. It was a mess. THEN!!! the other 2 joined in! There I was, at work (I'm a band director and we had a PTO concert that I could not get away from), couldn't get home to help, our worker didn't offer any help (just let him throw things in his room, let him calm down...that was the wrong advice!).

They threw baseballs, toy cars, everything. A toy car hit my dh in the nose and cut him. He was hit, kicked and bit as well. I felt soooo bad because I couldn't get there!

I drove up to the house to find a sherrif's car there. Seems like C, the middle child, girl, had called 911 to report dh for abuse, but had hung up. Kind of backfired! M wouldn't even calm down for the cop! He ended up at the phyc hospital (lucky the cop didn't arrest him for hitting him!). C calmed down as soon as M was carried out by the cop. S, the younger one had calmed down about half way through all of this. M and C called him a traitor and kicked him as well.

After all of this, their CPS caseworker chewed us out! Even our worker chewed! They said we must have done something to escalate his behavior, and perhaps dh did without knowing (this is our 1st placement), but where were they?!?! He called 3 times! Our worker said this looked bad for the agency and that perhaps this placement wasn't the best place for the kids! The ONLY behaviors we had had up until then was a few tantrums from the youngest and that was with me! They backed off when I pointed out that we had been warned that these types of behaviors do happen.

Anyways, M spent 10 days in the hospital. We visited every day. He found out that most of the others there didn't have visitors. He cried to come home. They tested him an now he's bi-polar as well as adhd. We found out about Love and Logic and have started the "energy drain" and everything is better.

Tybeemarie, thank you so much for posting! It is such a relief to know we're not the only ones dealing with these behaviors!

[tybeemarie]

TexasJingles,

Thank you for posting! I can only imagine what your feelings must have been upon seeing a police car outside your home! Your poor husband!

I am very grateful that none of the professionals on our case has, thus far, blamed us for our daughter's crazy behavior. That would be maddening and scary. Of course, being a foster parent means never being able to take the system's support for granted.

One thing that has been sticking with me the last few days is something my daughter told me. After tantrums and meltdowns, she cries, and she has told me that she is bad, that a demon is inside her, and that she is crazy. I've told her, no, honey, you've made some bad decisions. You're not a bad person and you're not a crazy person, you are a broken-hearted person because you've had a very, very difficult life. When you get stronger inside, you'll make better decisions. Now, I think, how presumptuous of me! Maybe she knows something I don't, namely, maybe she IS mentally ill. I don't think she's schizophrenic, I think she may have RAD or depression or something. Hopefully the assessment will give us more insight.

Thanks to all of you for sharing your lives. It is mysterious how this makes our burdens easier, yet it does.