[2boyz1girl]

numbr1,
Does it really matter WHY this father terminated? We don't know that he didn't want this baby to be adopted. Every day bmothers and bfathers sign their rights away for whatever reason. I guarantee there are bmothers out there that sign just because they want to! I'm sure he doesn't understand how the legal system works. We should be happy for his decision. He obviously wasn't the best parent for this child. It's also very likely that his parents MADE him sign. And lets get real here, every 15 year old would love to have sex with any woman who would take them! But they don't have the judgment required to make those kinds of decisions -- that is why it's illegal to have sex with a minor.

And what is the difference between a 13-yr-old girl having an abortion, and a 15-yr-old boy terminating his rights? They are both choosing not to raise the baby. At least he is not choosing to end it's life. How is having an abortion taking responsibility for actions if signing rights away isn't?

[numbr1dbcksfan]

I just meant that if the 13 year old is old enough to take responsibility, so is a 15 year old boy...

At least he is not choosing to end it's life.

Ya...but that is a personal 'at least' not a legal at least....not everyone finds this to be ending life....at the very least, the law doesnt...

Anyway...I wanted to look at the big picture and not just this case. I still feel that saying a 15 year old is too young to take responsibility is wrong and if applied to one should be applied to all...and since it CANT be applied to all, it shouldnt be applied to one.

And Im not saying it isnt in the B-I-O the child...

But seriously...are you saying that a parent can just say, here I dont want my child let me sign over my rights....and that is it--without following procedure?? Wouldnt that be abandonment? I mean if that were really the case, then men wouldnt have to pay support, they would just say...oh I dont want my rights *sign, sign, sign* here Im done! --and then move on with his life...

I guess I dont have to understand where anyone is coming from...but I am trying to.

[2boyz1girl]

okay, I'm not saying that 15-yr-olds should have no responsibility. On the contrary, my son's father was 16 when I got pregnant (so was I) and I would have been pretty upset if he had tried to not take responsibility. But in this case he (legally) IS the victim, wether he consented or not. IMO he did the right thing by signing his rights away, and we don't know that he didn't follow proceedure. Not only that, but many states have abandonment laws that allow bmother's to just leave their babies at designated areas and walk away free and clear -- without even so much as signing anything. My 'at least' may be personal, but that is what this is all about. Everybody's posts are personal. It's all about opinion! We're all entitled to our own opinion, and we don't have to agree or understand everybody else's.

Now, this has strayed very far from the topic, this is not beneficial to mpatrick so I'm going to end my posts here. I hope everything works out for the BABY'S best interest in this case and NOT for ANYBODY else.

[MommaD]

Originally posted by mpatrick
She was married alright...but to someone else when they started the affair.

I think you are still missing the point, that being... a 15 year old is responsible enough to know that having sex with a 26 year old is wrong. She was wrong, she went to prison and lost her child, he was wrong and went on with his life with no repercussions. He signed away his parental rights along with his parents.

In my sil's defense, she probably didn't consider the consequences of her actions or I am sure she would have thought better...who knows. My sil does come from a very small town (they don't even have a Walmart) and education in such offenses aren't exactly bountiful, though the crime probably is.

A little education humor...did you know it is now legal to marry your first cousin?...bet you didn't know that!

Just because others have done it and gotten away with it doesn't mean it's right.

MY POINT is that what she did was illegal, what he did was not.

I graduated from a class of 14, we had a post office in our town and a small gas station and that's all. I knew it was illegal to have sex with a child. I don't know anyone who thought it was. I don't appreciate your assumtion that people from a small town are uneducated criminals.

Actually it is still illegal in my state to marry your first cousin (even in the backwoods). I just saw a huge news story on it the other day.

Anyway, after reading all the posts so far I think your best bet is to wait until the adoptin is final and then try to send a photo album and family history to the adoptive family through the caseworker. It sounds like you don't have a legal leg to stand on anymore. Again, I'm sorry this is happening to you all.

[MommaD]

2boyz1girl is right. I am going to follow his/her lead. I also hope everything works out for the BABY and that she can be a member of a family who truely loves her and wants what's best for her. Whoever that family is.

[mpatrick]

Wow, the tone has definitely changed here.

Never did I mean to offend, nor did I make the "assumtion that people from a small town are uneducated criminals". I said that because she was from a small town that she may not have been as educated as some. I feel like my words are truly being twisted. I came here for support and am trying to be honest about my feelings.

Never did I say that this boy was at as much fault as my sil. If you feel I implied that, I am sorry. I do, however feel that he isn't without blame. I got the feeling that is how some here feel...that just because he is 15 he isn't accountable for his actions, that I don't agree with. If he had murdered someone, I am sure you all would feel differently about his age.

I have continually said that what my sil did was wrong, but I also believe that a person can make a mistake and then be sorry for making such poor choices. My question all along has been, should that person have to pay for their mistake for the rest of their life?

Again, my sil isn't some hard-nosed criminal. She made a mistake. Yes, it was a illegal. How long should she have to pay for that mistake?

Also, I have said that I don't want to tear this child from her foster family, but I would like a relationship with her. I would like her mother to have a relationship with her. I would like this child to know that her mother loves her and that she wasn't given up at will. Is that so bad?

I don't even know where to begin to address all the negativity I now feel on this discussion board. Are foster parents only kind as long as things are seen their way?

One of the last things I posted before things have seemed to get out of hand was that I had a new found respect for foster families and then these same people twist what I say and attack.

I am not sure I will be back, maybe I need to find somewhere else to air my feelings. Thank you all for your support and I wish the best for each of you. This has truly gotten out of hand and I am not ready to think of my sil as some horrible criminal, I know she has a good heart and that she is truly sorry for what she did. I know she knows what she did is wrong and I have no desire to continue to punish her for her past.

[tlc4kidz]

Sorry, but I had to get one more word in...in defense of foster-parents. I'm not sure exactly what happened here. I tried to go back and reread, but kept getting distracted. I think it is easy to personalize the fear of losing a child you have cared for and love so deeply. It is hard for me to read about your situation and not put my fd's face to your niece and feel the fear that would strike my heart if an aunt were suddenly to step forward, BUT that is the risk we take every day by loving these little ones.

I, for one, think your niece is blessed to be loved by so many people and I hope some day she can truly grasp that. I also hope that you can be a part of it in whatever way the Good Lord sees fit.

Please don't go so quickly...I bet you will need the support of people here in the days to come. Take what you need from those that truly care and leave the rest. It's a VERY emotionally charged issue so you are bound to get some pretty extreme views. For every one that actually posts I bet there are many others out there silently praying for you.

Keep the faith!

[Love_um_all]

sorry mpatrick,
People do get kinda rude in this place. I'm sorry for that. Just, relax, you are trying to "fix" it for her. Let it go, everyone else in your family has. You are spending alot of energy on this. Go talk to a lawyer, know where you stand, or don't stand. Contact foster/adopt family... with gifts and photos. In their eyes, they don't want to hear about sil, and if you talk bout her... they will put you out of their lives. You are going on and on about sil....

Do you care for the baby, who she is, what she likes, what funny faces is she making, is she crawling, does she have her "mommy's" feet, (ears, eyes, nose, etc.) You have not said one word about baby. I feel you really could careless about baby. What about this baby. Forget about SIL for a minute- do you really care to know the baby? That is all that really matter right now, today... so what about father's rights, mother done wrong or not blah blah blah....

Clear your head from all this junk.... none of that matters... Today, they only real question is do you want to know the baby. If you have a relation, on any level with baby, you can share with sil... That is the only way she will ever know her baby is ok. Everyone in here is concerned about baby girl, not bio-dad or bio-mom. BABY, she is the only one that is truly innocent in this crappy mess between two people that should have never had a baby together. God bless the baby.

[theresa ann]

IT SEEMS THAT EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION ABOUT YOUR SISTER
AND ALTHOUGH I CAN NOT CONDONE HER ACTIONS ,UNFORTUNATELY SHE WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF HER ACTIONS FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE. I DONT THINK THAT YOUR SISTER IS YOUR MAIN CONCERN . I BELIEVE THAT SOMEHOW MAYBE YOU WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THIS BABY IN THE FAMILY AND THAT IS WHAT I HEAR. tHE BOTTOM LINE IS WETHER YOU WANT TO RAISE THIS CHILD AS YOUR OWN. IF THE FEELING IN YOUR GUT IS DRIVING YOU TO FOLLOW THIS PATH , THAN I SAY GO FOR IT! I AM AN ADOPTEE AND AT SOME POINT IN THIS CHILDS LIFE SHE OR HE WILL WANT TO KNOW WHERE THEY COME FROM AS I DO. wHAT EVER MOM DID
WILL AT SOME POINT COME OUT AND MY OPINION IS THAT IF THE CHILD IS SURROUNDED BY HER BIO FAMILY THAT I AM SURE ARE PROBABLY GOOD ,LOVING AND CARING PEOPLE, SHE OR HE WILL NOT FEEL THAT THEY WERE DISCARDED BECAUSE OF THE MOTHERS SIN. wHAT ABOUT THE BOYS FAMILY ? IS HE OR THE
FAMILY INVOLVED IN THIS SITUATION OR ARE THEY JUST GOING TO DISCARD THEIR BLOOD /SON/ GRANDSON. I HAVE A TEENAGE GIRL AND ALTHOUGH I WOULD BE EXTREMELY UPSET IF SHE BECAME PREGNANT BY AN OLDER MAN . I WOULD WANT TO CRUCIUFY HIM, BUT I WAS A TEENAGER ONCE AND KNOW THAT I HAD A MIND OF MY OWN . I WOULD STILL RAISE MY GRANDCHILD . tHE BIG QUESTION I WOULD HAVE IS , WHERE WERE THE BOYS PARENTS, WHILE HE WAS HAVING SEX WITH A GROWN WOMAN?
WHEREVER MY DAUGHTER IS, SHE CONTACTS ME EVERY 2 HOURS AND I KNOW WHO SHES WITH AND WHERE . I AM SAD FOR YOU AND THIS CHILD BECAUSE YOU ARE VICTIMS OF SOMEONE ELSES MISTAKE , BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU CAN NOT BE PART OF THE SOLUTION . IF YOU FEEL STRONGLY ENOUGH ABOUT KEEPING THIS CHILD THAN DO IT FOR YOURSELF NOT YOUR SISTER . IF YOU FEEL THAT THE CHILD WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITH THE FOSTER PARENTS THEN BE INVOLVED. YOU ARE FAMILY AND YOU DO HAVE A RIGHT TO INVESTIGATE THE FUTURE POSSIBILITIES OF FOR THIS CHILD .I HAVE TO AGREE THAT AN ADULT THAT CHOOSES TO HAVE SEX WITH SOMEONE THAT IS A MINOR, HAS SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS. CHILD MOLESTERS ARE CHILD MOLESTERS AND THAT IS A CHOICE NOT A MISTAKE. I WOULD AGREE THAT SHE IS AN UNFIT PARENT ONLY BASED ON HER CHOICE TO HAVE SEX WITH SOMEONE THAT IS A MINOR.
ASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION, WOULD YOU FEEL SECURE WITH
HER IN THE SAME HOUSE WITH YOUR TEENAGE BOYS ALONE ?
I AM NOT JUDGING ANYONE , SO PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED
BY MY BEING SO DIRECT . IN THIS SITUATION I WOULD SUGGEST ASKING GOD WHAT TO DO, HE WILL NEVER FAIL YOU AND ALWAYS GIVE YOU AN ANSWER. THERE IS A LIITLE HUMAN BEING WITH A HEART, SOUL AND A NAME OUT THERE, THAT MUST BE GIVEN THE THE CHANCE TO BE BROUGHT UP IN A WORLD WHERE , SHE OR HE WILL HAVE THE LOVE AND SUPPORT OF A FAMILY THAT CAN PROVIDE THAT FOR THEM.

[jeffery1988]

I am so sorry that things have gotten so out of hand and hope that you do not leave this forum.I hope that you find out whether or not she signed the TPR.That will makethings alot simpler because she will not have any rights if she signed. Her court appointed attorney should have been there to witness or someone. They don't just let you sign those papers without it being completely understood what the consequences would be. Also it doesn't sound like the DSS even tried to contact family about fostering this child. One question, is she still paying child support? She shouldn't be if she signed rights over. Just like the father, once she signed she shouldn't have to pay child support.
I hope things go well for you and sil and especially this baby. You should still do the scrap-book for this baby . Keep in mind that open adoption if the fparents are willing is not legally binding in many if not all states. They do not have to follow though with any of it. Hopefully that will not happen but most people wouldn't tell you that. I am a birthmom who willingly gave my child to a lovingly family. I was 18 and date raped. I don't ever stop thinking about my first born. He is in every thought and prayer of every day. The birthfather no matter how old will have to live with the fact that he gave up his rights. I'm not saying it was not for the best but just that this will be something he will live with for a long time. I will keep you in my prayers and if you want to email me personally feel free. I live in Kentucky. amoertle69@yahoo.com

[mpatrick]

I just wanted to say thank you to the ones that have responded to this thread and to the ones that have private messaged me.

I felt it was important to step back and take a break from the discussion here and take what was beneficial to my situation and leave the rest behind. I have learned alot and am now able to look at the situation from both the bio-family and foster parent's sides.

In the future, I ask that when you respond to someone looking for help, that you not lump all bio-family into the same pile. Not all bio-family are out for their own best interest, nor are they out to hurt the foster families that love and care for the children. Infact, because of some of the kind responses that I have gotten here, I have decided that it is in the babies best interest to be with the only parents she has ever know, that being her foster parents. I will not be seeking adoption myself, but I am still interested in an open adoption so that I can get to know my niece and she can know that she is in our thoughts.

My sil is still seeking custody though, and I will be there to support her efforts. I think that if this is what she truly wants, she should do whatever she can to get her baby back. She is the one that will have to live with that decision, so I think it should be her decision. I have learned that she did file an appeal when she received the letter of TPR. She has taken parenting classes and is still taking them. She said that she wants to be a mother to this child and she is going to do everything possible to try and make that happen.

Again, thank you to all the kind responses and all the support you have given me.

[Kara J]

Just read this thread this morning and wanted you to know that you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. I am proud of your SIL for standing up for what she feels is right... I'm sure that knowing she has you and your husband beside her is quite comforting. Being in prison, losing your child, and then having your parents basically disown you has to be heartwrentching. I'm sure she has been in a depression and the easiest thing to do would have been to give up.... I'm glad to see she didn't. I'm sure that one of the reasons she didn't fight harder in prison was because she felt she had no hope.... looks like you and your husband have given that back to her.... Once again I've added your family to may prayer list and will continue to pray that God's will be done for the sake of the baby.

[tlc4kidz]

Thank you for your unselfishness....I know it had to be a very hard decision. I think that you have been very wise and obviously have not taken the decision lightly. I will pray that no matter how this turns out you will be a part of her life. Aunts can hold a VERY special place in the lives of their neices...I have 8 of them to prove it!!