[mpatrick]

BUT that WAS my point, should he be able to sign away his rights just to avoid paying support???

That I do not know.

[spaypets]

mpatrick,
Please, if you decide to go through a homestudy to try to adopt this child, make sure you tell the social worker that you think the 15-year-old boy in this situation was as responsible for having sex as your 26-year-old SIL. I think she would be interested in hearing your opinions about adolescent development and child/adult sexual relations.

There is a reason they call it statuatory RAPE, because children are too young to give consent. It doesn't matter that he was willing. He was incapable of giving consent, just as he is too young to sign a contract.

I certainly hope your view of adolescent development changes when your kids are 15.

As for trying to get her child back after TPR, she made her decision months ago when she failed to respond to the tpr notice. It's too late for her. It really sounds like your SIL still doesn't understand that actions have permenant, lasting consequences and saying she's sorry or she changed her mind is useless.

[2boyz1girl]

Michelle. If your sil recieved tpr papers in prison, chances are that it is already done, and she no longer has any rights to this
child.

I could get into my opinion on sex offenders but IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!! What matters is what is best for this baby. If tpr has occurred your sil is NO LONGER AN OPTION for her. There is a possibiltity that she could appeal, but if she hasn't done anything before now, she basically has no chance.

Once rights are terminated, that's it for the bparent. She cannot get those rights back. If that is the case, the foster parents have more rights to this baby than anybody else. In many states foster parents have the option of becoming intervenors, making them a full party to the case.

Honestly, I don't think a judge would even bat an eye at you at this point. I understand your situation in not being able to care for this baby before hand, but they hear it ALL THE TIME. They even have a term for it, I can't remember now. It is so common for bio-family to panic and step up at the last minute, and they ALWAYS have an excuse. It makes me sick! I understand your concern, but to be blunt -- that concern should have surfaced way before now.

If you want a chance at an open adoption DON'T INTERFERE now. I guarantee that if you upset the foster parents, and they do adopt, they won't want anything to do with you.

[macrod]

The boy is 15. How was he supposed to support a child, when he is one himself?

MPatrick - Yes, the parents are supposed to pay for children in fostercare. Fostercare is not a babysitting service paid for the by the taxpayers.

[Howdy]

If you want the baby because you feel the court was unfair in terminating the mother's rights and you want her to have contact with her child, then the thing to do is to hire an attorney and try to appeal (if that is possible). But to desire custody in an attempt to violate a court judgement is probably ethically wrong, and sounds very risky from a liability standpoint.

If you got custody and you were told not to allow the mother contact, then would you feel it was still worth it to have the child? If you allowed contact, I suspect you would be taken to court and lose custody of the child and even perhaps risk losing custody of your own children.

I am truly shocked to read opinions that the 15 yr old is at fault. When I was 14 yrs old the 21 yr old son of a neighbor was involved with me, and that was wrong. 14 yr olds are simply clueless, they think they know everything and think they are grown up but they are ignorant and clueless. 15 is not much better. An adult woman offering sex to a 15 yr old boy is offering irresistable temptation. It is like expecting a 3 yr old to refuse candy or a 5 yr old to resist a puppy. Even if they KNOW they should not do something, they are developmentally susceptible to yielding to temptation. The 15 yr old boy was no doubt thrilled to have sex with your SIL. When I was 14 yrs old I was terribly flattered and proud of the attentions of the 21 yr old. But with age and perspective, I realize what a cad he was.

[2boyz1girl]

YES, your sil SHOULD have to pay child support for her chilren in foster care. The state did NOT chose to place those chilren in foster care, she and their father did by the MISTAKES they made.

[aspenhall]

If she expected her child back why did she sign TPR?

I was rooting for her until I heard this. She HAD to understand what she was signing!!

Sorry, I hope it works out. I agree 15 is too young to make decisions like this. I couldn't even date until I was 16. I'm sure his parents grounded him.

I can't say whether you or fp would be better adopting the child.

[tlc4kidz]

In our state, while it can not be grounds for tpr, it can be looked at as neglect and play a part in the final decision if child support is not paid while the child is in care.

I agree with whoever said if the tpr papers were served, it is probably final and a judge probably wouldn't look at it. I think you really need to be prepared that it could be final. You can appeal if you want, but be prepared for alot of expense, both financial and emotional.

Are you starting to feel like your in the middle of a bad Lifetime movie???

[numbr1dbcksfan]

It is not that I am saying the 15 year old is 'at fault' but if he created a baby with a 16, 17 or even 18 year old....or the other way 13 or 14 we would be required to take responsibility for that decision. According to what was posted here...the parents were ok, then they werent and they pressed charges.... But that should not release the father from taking responsibility for the child that he did not unwillingly create. And it seems that he did not have to take that responsibility.

I dont know...I hope it all works out for the best.

[manon]

I think you should reconcile yourself to the fact that you can't fix this for your sister-in-law. There are some things she has to take a very active role in herself, and you could help her with that, but the first moves have to be hers, and it sounds like she isn't taking them.

When you talked about sitting down with her to discuss the idea of open adoption, and then trying to present that idea to the foster parents, I think you're still imagining this is fixable, for your s-i-l to have some kind of visitation with the baby. If her parental rights have been terminated, that includes any right to visitation. The foster parents may well have been advised to make sure there is no chance that the biological mother can have access to the child. It could be that the most you could realistically hope for in approaching the foster parents is to ask them to consider allowing some contact between your husband & you with the child, and it's entirely possible you'd be required to not let your sister-in-law be around the child when that happens.

I think there comes a point where everybody has to take responsibility for themselves. I suspect the time is past already when the option of stepping up to adopt the child or foster the child has already ceased to be an option. That's for a lawyer to answer for you. Now the question becomes what other responsibility do you feel you have toward this child, and what do you think would help you feel better about having done everything you can do for this child? Nobody can turn back the clock. All you have is the present and future. So I don't think there's any point in feeling bad about the fact that the time for you to intervene to step in to parent the child has passed (if in fact it has). What you can do is figure out, ok, here is where we are now, and what can I do now for my part of this.

I feel like you feel a duty to help your s-i-l (especially since her parents haven't), and a duty to help the child. I think it's important to keep in mind that those 2 things may not be the same thing.

I'd still encourage you to make a scrapbook of family photos, write to the child (even if you aren't allowed to send those letters), and keep that little girl in your thoughts and prayers from time to time at a minimum. Someday it may be something she can see and learn of and treasure. In the meantime, it shows your own kids that the right thing to do for family (the child, I mean) is to look out for them, regardless of whether it nets you anything yourself.

I didn't bother trying to jump on you about seeing your s-i-l's actions as a mistake; I think you seem pretty committed to thinking about it that way, and nothing I'm gonna say will change your mind about it. I would just hate to see you have any opportunity to do right by the child and by yourself slip through your fingers because you're still caught up in trying to fight your s-i-l's fight for her.

Good luck to you.

[macrod]

number1dbkfan- What do you suppose the boy should do for the rest of his life? Work at McDonalds? I have a cousin that is raising her grandchild. The boy was 14 and the girl 17. By law, he can not even work at McDonalds . But getting back to this case - this is why it is against the laws to have sex with a minor. The minor can not provide for himself much less a child. The minor is the responsibility of their parent until age 18. Although he signs away his rights/responsibility that does not relieve him of what him may feel 10-15 years from now wondering what happened to his child.

[3girls1boy]

In this nation a 15 year old cannot even see an R rated movie, because we as a society don't think they have the proper maturity to handle adult situations. Just think about that. This kid was not old enough to consent, therefore it was not consenual sex. So no, he is not responsible. We have these laws to protect children and that is what he was.

As far as his responsiblity to this baby, he and his parents did do the responsible thing and terminate their rights. This allowed his child to be placed with people who were ready to raise a child. How can you fault him for this? Did you really expect him to raise a baby- or his parents raise the baby born of what was undoubtedly a heartbreaking situation?

[numbr1dbcksfan]

I am just missing how everyone can miss the big picture. If a 15 year old creates a baby with someone younger than this person, he is required to be responsible. He cannot just choose to terminate his rights and walk away. *sigh* Yes, if he created a baby his rear should be cooking fries at McDonalds if that is what it takes to support his baby.

So no, he is not responsible. We have these laws to protect children and that is what he was.

But in most situations he Is responsible for the child(even rapists have rights...we see that here all the time...). He would not be able to see an R rated movie, he would not be able to drive, BUT he would have to take responsibility for a child he created.

As I see it there are two separate issues....
Having Sex
She was wrong for having sex with a minor.....but it was not forced. Im sure that is taken into consideration, as it is statutory rape...not forced rape. And she did her time.

The baby
Since this was not a forced sexual encounter, as in any other situation where a 15 year old creates a baby, he should still be responsible for the life he created.


Do you ALL really think that he should just be patted on the back and said....awe you poor boy, you fell under the trance of this older Jezebel and unwittingly created a baby....but you had no idea what you were doing....so here....have a free pass.... But (firmly wagging a finger) you should really do better next time. These babies cant always be written off so easily, you know...

[macrod]

Numbr1dkfan - This is it for me - One last time- HE did the right thing. By signing away his rights away he is no longer responsible. In this country we have many, many minors trying to raise children. Children having children. Do we really want this? I am a foster mom and half the children that I have had come from homes were they were raised by parents that were children themselves. The cycle merely repeats itself.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Im not saying that I dont agree with that assessment of children having children....


But in most other situations, the 15 year old would be accountable....

A 13 year old girl can have a baby or even have an abortion....in some areas her parents wouldnt even have to be notified of the abortion....
If a 13 year olf or 15 year old girl has to take responsibility for her actions, then of course the boy should have to take responsibility...


If this were the situation....then I would agree:

The mother is in jail, so the Father is a primary caregiver....he chooses adoption....he terminates his rights and serves the mother with the intent to place (just like they would for a rapist father in jail) and then she can either sign over her rights or go to court and a judge may or may not terminate them.

That scenario seems like the boy should be able to do this.

But that is not what happened.....he was allowed to terminate just because he wanted to NOT TO PLACE FOR ADOPTION....and then the mother wasnt tpr'd for months later.... so he did not have to take responsibility for the child that he willingly created.

I am not saying that teens should make a practice of having kids...I am just saying that the proper procedure should be used....and it doesnt seem like it was in this case....
Not whether it is right for a kid to raise a kid....but whether a father should be able to terminate his rights just because he wants to.

As you said the mother should support her kids if she chooses to put them in foster care....so should the father. (Generic..not just this one.) If a mother did that it would be abandonment ... wouldnt it?

Please dont take anything personal....because I am not trying to be personal....just wanting to understand if these rules should be applied to all....or just this case because the mother was older....