[mpatrick]

LRD, no offense taken...I understand how you must feel.

spaypets, I would like to share one of my favorite quotes with you by Anais Nin: "We see the world not as it is but as we are."

macrod, I think I do need to do some more research into what is going on. I do, however, think she is being honest...though she might be leaving out some important details. I do think I will take your advice and try to be there myself in the future. My mother-in-law did go with her on her visit yesterday, but I am not so sure she will go into much detail about what is going on. When I did question her about the situation in general, she pretty much acted as if there was nothing anyone could do.

You all have given me much insight and I think at this point it is just important to at least postpone the adoption until everyone is sure this is the best course of action. I am not saying this baby shouldn't be with her foster parents, I am just saying that things need to be more certain before proceeding.

If this family did adopt the baby, would I too loose any chance of ever getting to see her?

[tlc4kidz]

We had a fd whose aunt was planning on trying to adopt to keep in the family. She decided at the last minute not to proceed. We were not considering adopting her (or any child at that time), but just fostering. Her aunt met with us and begged me to help choose a family who was open to family contact. I had no real way of knowing if the family we chose would or would not, but did help promote contact after the adoption was final. They have been invited to all the important events...the baptism, birthday parties and even offered to stay in the home of her aparents. I'm not saying it always works out this ideal. You can tell from lots of posts here it does not. I'm just offering that if it does not work out for her to be returned OR if you choose not to pursue you might work hard to be allies with the fosterfamily in order to be her aunt forever.

I didn't know in my previous post she was only 9 months...I can't imagine on what planet they could be adopting her already?! We have a fd almost 17 months old from birth now that we just filed for adoption on. We are just beginning the process and told at best it could be 60-90 days, but probably another year or more. You might want to research ASFA (adoption and safe families act). I believe it states 15 out of 22 months in care before a permanent plan is established. I could be wrong but your attorney could advise you. Sorry for my previous post...I think in your shoes I would probably feel the same. I think it gets to be at the 15-18 month age I start to feel a little different....not sure why, just my own personal opinion.

[mpatrick]

Well, I just talked with my sil on the phone. I tried to address the many questions that many of you here have told me to ask.

As far as the contact she has had from her lawyer or otherwise, she said that while she was in prison she was notified and told that there was a hearing and that the court took away her parental rights because of her conviction as a "sexual offender" and that the foster parents were seeking adoption...this was about 3 months ago. She was then sent a letter about 2 weeks ago inquiring if she wanted the "goodbye visit". They gave her two dates to choose from. She hasn't talked to anyone because she believes she has no rights.

Can this be so?

I have read other foster parent stories on here where drug addicts and mothers that have abandoned their children have rights to their children, but my sil has none because she was convicted and sent to prison. Surely this can't be it???

Is there anything she can do at this point? Does she not have any hope of ever getting her baby back?

She also said that things have never seemed right from the very beginning. Are first offenders usually sent to prison?

She also said that when they asked her about family that would be interested in adopting they required her to give names, addresses and phone numbers. Since her mother would not accept her phone calls, she didn't have any access to this information. That is also why she never tried to contact us while she was in prison.

If I pursued foster care or adoption at this point, would this at least postpone the foster parents from adopting. I feel like I am trying to accomplish all this with a ticking time bomb ready to go off. I wish I had more time to find out what options are available. I always imagined that after my sil was out of prison she would have time to straighten up and get her child back on her own.

Has anyone dealt with this type of situation?

[mpatrick]

fosterma,

Thank you for your reply. I would like for all of this to have some happy conclusion. It seems as if the foster parents are not trying to keep this an open adoption if they arranged for a "goodbye visit". But, then again I am just starting to learn about the whole situation, maybe the foster parents are just doing what they think is right. But it would seem that they would be told something about the mother's situation, wouldn't they?

How much info do they give foster parents?

[tlc4kidz]

I'm not sure about where you are, but here if tpr/adoption is petitioned to the court the bp's are served a summons and have 30 days to respond, and if they don't the person filing the petition can proceed with the adoption with or without their permission. It sounds like maybe that is what has occured. I would think it would be important for you to find out when the adoption hearing is and have your ducks in a row to be there to contest if that's what you decide.

I think you will feel alot more in control of the situation once you are able to speak with an attorney that knows adoption laws and can advise you of your rights as a family member. You'll be in my prayers!!

[mpatrick]

fosterma,

Thank you so much! I am going to continue to follow up with more phone calls today and see what I can find out.

Do you think the SW was being honest with me about having to have written permission from my sil to discuss the case? My sil said she would send the letter, but something about that sounds fishy. Would if I was seeking custody without her consent?

I am in KY, but this case is in Clermont County, Ohio. I have heard that Clermont County isn't always on the up and up. My sil also said that her court appointed attorney didn't really do much to assist her in anything. Can she ask for a new attorney? Are there only websites that educate you about family law in your state?

[tlc4kidz]

Just wondering what you found out? I would try searching online for family court for your county. I kept thinking about your situation today for some reason....something just doesn't seem right. I can't figure out why they didn't look for family to begin with? I know you answered some of that in your previous posts, but it's scary to think there was not more effort made in locating a relative. If your SIL's rights have been terminated then I think she will never regain custody. You will have your hands full with your 3 and another if you decide to fight for this baby. Keep us posted!

[leenab]

Hi mpatrick,

In order to stop the adoption or hold it up you need to have a lawyer file an injuction. It's a fairly common thing. If you are interested in adopting this child, call the state and schedule a meeting. Talk to your sil and have her contact the state on your behalf. Then talk to the caseworker, supervisor and get a homestudy done. As long as you're considered a safe family (ie no criminal record, etc) you should be approved. So far as a fosterparent I've learned you really have to push the system for things that are needed. A lot of things tend to get overlooked at a state level and the right questions aren't asked.

(Long story: my soon to be cross my fingers sons came to me with little/no information about their situations. What a learning experience in dealing with the state. The system is really so big that a lot of information gets lost along the way.) For instance today we went to see Raj's old foster mother, who btw is a wonderful wonderful woman. She told me things about Raj that I never heard from the caseworker, ie, he was having nightmares every single night in her house for almost 2 yrs, and he's accident prone (that one we figured out in the first few days we had him). A lot of time the state either convienently forgets these things or doesn't even take note of them. You really have to be resourceful when trying to find information.

Have you consulted a lawyer yet? It may be a good idea to have your own lawyer, especially if you're serious about adopting the child. The longer you wait, the harder it will be. The fosterparents will start to get time on their side and could be considered psychological parents.

Hope this helps,
Leena

[Love_um_all]

First of all, if TPR has been done, and the 30 days are over for the appeal. THere is nothing that can be done. You or sil can file appeal, but a judge will throw it out. It does not matter she did not know this or that, she had an attorney and sounds like she was in regular contact with him... Meanwhile, baby is happy, safe secure... If sil is past TPr, after 30 days, she no longer has an attorney, you have no rights, and caseworkers do not have to answer any questions. This is not a game. Parents that want their kids should fight for them. SHe was passive, and so were you, now, after it is finished and the baby is free for adoption, there is nothing left to do. You would have had rights if you would have said something to caseworker about being a relative care giver if it was done before termination of parental rights(TPR)

I mean no disrespect at all. I would be doing the exact same thing if I were you. You can look online for laws for your state, see what is said.

She also said that things have never seemed right from the very beginning. Are first offenders usually sent to prison?

yea, all the time...

I would like to say, having a baby is not all fun and baby booties. It is an important job. Being a good parent is more than finding a place to live and a job. She made choices and we live in a cause and effect world. Every guys knows, "15 will get ya twenty" I heard that so much when I was a teen. Men know this is dangerous territory and it can ruin their lives. I know this is a sad situation, but, IMHO- the best thing that can come out of this tragedy is she learns an important lesson about being a grown up. dr phil says, when we chose the action, we chose the result. But, this I do know also, if she has more children, The state will be watching her closely because of the tpr.

[mpatrick]

fosterma, thank you for all your responses...you seem like a very sincere and caring person. I have been thinking constantly about what I am getting myself into...and I have my moments where I wonder if I can really handle another child on top of my own three. I do wonder about the foster parents and what kind of home the baby is in. I think about this child growing up thinking that no one cared, which isn't the case.

I called an old friend of mine that works for social services and he was blunt and gave me a reality check. I have alot to think about. He reminded me that though my sil may not be a bad mother, that she certainly isn't a "good" one. He said they see cases like this a dime a dozen. He also asked around about Clermont County and said they have questionable practices and that I would have to hire an attorney, something I can't afford to do at time.

I don't think they had any intention of really contacting any family because like I said in an earlier post, I had called shortly after the baby was born and was pretty much given the brush off...even then I was treated as if I was any other person seeking foster care rather than family. I had even asked about visits to see the baby and was told that only the mother had those rights.

I just don't want this baby growing up thinking no one cared...that just breaks my heart.

Leena, thank you for your reply too. My heart goes out to you and all the other foster parents...I am sure being foster parents is as difficult as it can be rewarding. I am still trying to get a hold of the court appointed attorney, but from the different things I have read here, I am not so sure it will do any good at this point.

Love_um_all, I do appreciate your honesty...I would rather hear the truth than a sugar-coated lie.

You said....

It does not matter she did not know this or that, she had an attorney and sounds like she was in regular contact with him

My sil didn't have regular contact with her attorney because she was in prison. My sister went to prison in June or July of last year and had her baby in prison last October, she was just released after one year and she said that while she was in prison she was suppose to be sent pictures and updates that she never received. She said the only time she heard from her lawyer was a letter saying that the foster parents were seeking custody and a letter about the "goodbye visit". I sincerely don't think she is lying about that.



If this foster family does adopt her, do I have any visitation rights as an aunt. Can I even ask for updates or pictures...or is all lost?

[macrod]

mpatrick - At this point it would be up to the foster/adopt family. I would be willing to be bet that if you made contact with them that may be open to sending you pictures and updates. I am currently in that situation, however I am trying to pursue the Aunt to send me pictures and information. As an adoptive parent it is up to me to see to it that my baby has a family connection. IMO adoption not about the adoptive parent or, biologicial family, but the adoptee. Your niece will one day want to know and they (the adoptive family) better be prepared for some answers. Good luck making contact!

[Love_um_all]

I don't know what that means, but, it was not clear about the contact she had with her attorney. It sounded like she had contact, and I just assumed this true. I really don't mean to offend you, I really don't. I would not want to do that. I agree with macrod, contact the family, even speek to attorney, the 1st visit is usually free, at least you can know your options.

Most adoptive families understand that family connection is important. And most want to help the child know that you do care. I think you could have a relationship with the child, watch he/she grow up and baby knows it was not rejected or not wanted. Mom made a mistake, and the powers that be, made this decision. Baby can have the best of both worlds. A loving adoptive family, and bio- family relationships. I'll bet, If you met the foster family, and saw how baby is living and how much it is loved, you would feel alot better about the situation.

I really am sorry if I came across as rude, I never mean to be rude. My mom always said, "say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean." When reading comments, they sometimes can come across differently than intended.

[mpatrick]

macrod, I am not sure what is going to happen...I think I should wait to see what kind of effort my sil puts into all of this. As much as I would love to be a part of this child's life, I am not sure things will work out that way. It seems from comments on this board that lots of bio-moms say they want their children and then don't really put forth much effort. I would be happy with just seeing and knowing that this baby is healthy and happy. I do have to wait for my sil to send written permission to the the SW before they will discuss the case with me. I am still waiting on a return call. Do I have any rights without that written permission?


Love_um_all, I wasn't offended at all...I hope I didn't come across that way. I just want to do what is right by this child...I hope I haven't waited too long. It is hard for me not to feel angry sometimes, especially the couple of times I did talk to the social worker...she talks so rude to me...as if I have no business even calling.

I like your mom's little saying...cute! It reminds me of one that an old neighbor would say to me. When she would get ready to leave she would say "I don't want to make people happy twice...Happy to see me and Happy to see me go."

[2boyz1girl]

First of all, I would recommend doing some research on attachment. This (the foster parent's) IS the babies home we're talking about here -- the only home she(?) has ever known. I was in their shoes a few months ago so yes, I am biased. Every state is different, but many states have "adopted" expedited permanency laws for children under three. Meaning that they only have so long to get that child reunited with their bfamily, and if that is not a possiblity, they need to get them adopted. We too had a relative step up as a kinship placement after our fd turned one. I can't tell you how upsetting that was that they had wanted nothing to do with her until that point, then all of the sudden when it started looking like her bfather wasn't going to get custody, they wanted her. In our case, social services decided to look into it -- even more upsetting, and recommend them as a back-up placement. Meaning that they would only have a chance at that point if we were to fall through -- FAT CHANCE! I want to plead with you for the foster family's sake to NOT try to take this baby away from them. Yes, we are told that it is temporary and we are there to work to get these kids back to their bparents, but when family steps up so far into the process, it just complicates matters. Bparents have amazing rights and DHS cannot just terminate and let someone else adopt until they have made reasonable efforts to reunite them with their bfamily. I'm guessing that there is more to this story than you have been told, your SIL would have to have been notified about permanency plans for her child before they would set up a "good-bye" visit. Many states are FINALLY turning more to the CHILD's RIGHTS rather than the PARENT'S RIGHTS. That child has a right to be in a permanent home, if your sil can't provide that, the next best choice for the child is to remain where she has been her entire life. Having said that, when a child does become free for adoption (meaning your sil's rights are terminated) most states will allow anybody who is interested to "apply" for adoption and research the best placement. But in almost every case, stability, leaving the child where they are, and attachment wins out. If you want to have something to tell your children, just tell them that you knew that this baby was being well taken care of (I assume she is) and that she was already attached to her foster family and you knew that was the best place for her. I know this comes across very crossly, and I'm sorry that you have found yourself in this situation, but think about the baby, not just your sil! Also, we are adopting our baby now and we are staying in contact with the bfather.

[Howdy]

If TPR has already happened and it is too late to get custody, one terrific thing you could do is make a photo album of family pictures to give to the baby's new family. Probably the new parents would be okay about accepting a photo album, you could ask the caseworker to ask them. Provide your contact information too and perhaps the family will contact you themselves eventually.

I'm astonished at how few pictures my foster daughters have had. It is so sad for children to not have family photos. My first fd had a picture of a baby from a store-bought picture frame, that she told people was her baby picture, and my current fd has several pictures of previous foster family members that for months she told us were her bfamily. But of course a child adopted as a baby would not have the same insecurity problems about trying to show they have a past and a family.

If you can get copies made and make a album/book of the baby's relatives (aunts, uncles, grandparents on both sides, a family tree with names and information, etc), I suppose that would be a very precious possession to the child.