[jamie3]

We have had our boys for about 6 weeks. Their behavior at home is much much improved. They have settled down tremendously and we are really getting along well. I guess I assumed they had settled down at daycare as well because they were smiling when I picked them up everyday and the babysitter, "Sue", never said a word about misbehavior.

However, yesterday when I picked them up, R. was having a temper tantrum (which happens occassionally) and I caught him hitting a boy in the face. I took him aside and talked to him and Sue watched. When I was finished she said, "You know he really does this a lot and I am very tired. Everyone else will lay down at nap, but R. screams and throws a huge fit every day."

I was really surprised because of my 2 new sons, R. is the one who has never once given me trouble about naptime or bedtime. His brother is the one who doesn't like to go to bed for me and R. uses naptime to score brownie points.

I know that Sue has a completely different style of dealing with kids and she uses positive reinforcement almost exclusively. I agree that this does have a place in training, but I think it is too much pressure on R. to be good and please. I actually think it is causing him anxiety. She randomly gives kids treats for being good and I suspect that R. often isn't being good at the right time.

At home we have a time-out chair and we talk to them after they have had time out. Then they sit for another 2 minutes to think about what we have said. We then give hugs and kisses and forget the episode. I don't use candy to enforce behavior, but I do give praise for good behavior. I actually don't give warnings for temper tantrums or hitting, etc. Discipline is immediate and consistent.

So far they have responded really well and are much much happier than they were a couple of weeks ago.

I read somewhere that only using positive reinforcement can be bad for kids who have a lot of anxiety and issues. It is just too much pressure. I told her that yesterday (since she printed off a page on positive reinforcement from the internet to give to me). I guess she thinks I am not positive enough.

Does anyone else know what I am getting at and where I can find information to help her deal with R's problems? I am reading Toddler Adoption (which is a great book!) now and it is veryifying for me that temper tantrums for R. are not like temper tantrums from a child who has not been through the trauma this little guy has. His frustration level is so much lower than most kids' and I need to help train my babysitter in these behaviors.

I am a teacher and I don't have much longer until I can be home with him every day. I can't have her quit on me right now, though. We live a really small town and she is the only babysitter with the proper credentials.

Ironically, she has never mentioned C's behavior who is more prone to misbehavior here.

Any suggestions from veterans?!

[lucyjoy]

Maybe you could explain to her that your son neeeds clear boundaries and by giving him warnings and rewards he is bcoming confused. He's likely acting up for her because he views her as week which translates to unsafe which causes the anxiety.
Short of getting a new sitter, I don't know what to tell you. She clearly thinks you're the problem which is why she gave you that "helpful" printout. Be sure to tell her how concerned you are about this behavior as it doesn't occur at home. Ask he if she'd mind keeping track of problems at what occurs before he gets upset. It might buy you a little time.

[jamie3]

Do you think I am on the right track about him seeing her as weak? He knows he can't get away with that stuff at home and has quit trying it. I think he has her number and she is going to have to get more authoritative with him.

Any ideas on printing out "helpful information" for her? I really would like to make this work so he doesn't have to start over at another sitter. He has been moved enough in the past 10 months.

[seedsower]

Often, you gotta throw the pareneting 101 books out the door when caring for abused and negleted kids. Most of the normal means of discipline do not work and can in fact increase the unwanted behavior. I'll see what I can find for you in the way of articles. Until than, the book you are reading is excellant. Copy the pages that refer to the problems your son is having. Also, you might contact your agency and see if they have classes, resources and such for care takers.

It sounds like your care taker is a real gem and really wants to provide a quality day care for all the children. Make sure you let her know that you appreciate her for that and ask her to become part of the team that will assist your child in overcoming his behavior problems that stem from abuse and neglect.

Everyone involved needs to remember this little guy has and is going through hell. My bet is he is not acting out due to defiance but due to fear, anxiety, sadness and uncertainty. How can the adults around him help him feel loved, safe, secure and happy?

[jamie3]

I have thinking and praying about this all weekend. I am wondering if he might be better off with a daycare that has fewer kids or just a stay at home mom who would liek to babysit or something. He is going back to his counselor this week who mentioned putting him on anti-anxiety meds for a short time. R. is so high strung around other kids, so I am sure the daycare is stressing him out. He is better here but still has some times where he shows anxiety.

He is almost 4 and may tantrum several times a day. Some days are worse than others though. He can be redirected and wants to please; it's just something we need to work through.

I would still like to hear some ideas on educating the sitter or other insights.

[leenab]

A lot of R & C's behaviors are most likely centered around adjustment issues. I have 2 boys similar ages, one just turned three and the other will turn 4 in June. I've had the 3 yr old for 4 months and his behavior has improoved drastically in the last few weeks. It's just taking him longer to settle in, after all we're his 4th family and last He also had really AWEFUL tantrums to the point that it drove everyone around him nuts. But they have ended. No big tantrums for over 3 weeks.


Our 4 yr old has been here 2.5 months and in the last 2 weeks started getting very comfortable is is talking non-stop. When we first got him we were very worried about his extreem quietness. He has really blossomed. We're his 3rd home and last home

These are our first children ever, both fost/adopt. It's a lot for them to deal with: having new parents who want to adopt them and moving on in life. The adjustment phase is hard on everyone.

Just last week the boys started preschool and loved it. I was such a nervous Mom for them, since I'd spent a lot of time home with them I was attached. They also missed us during the day. But I know they had a great time. I think it was easier for them to go to school knowing that they were already settled in at home.

I know 6 weeks seems like a long time; I used to think it was, but it's so short for a child to feel comfortable. I think by the 6 month point R & C should settle in. I know it can be a grueling wait.

[jamie3]

Wow! They really are very similar to my boys! Mine will both have bdays in May and will be 3 & 4.

I have also wondered if the fact that they don't go to daycare every single day makes it harder to adjust for them. I like for them to be at home when dh is off work (he's in law enforcement and has 2 weekdays off). However maybe it would be better for them to go even for a little while every weekday. I know the babysitter, dh, and I all have different styles in caregiving and it may be tough on them to adjust every couple of days to a new person's rules, etc.

C. has been wanting to play baby with me today. I think it is his way of bonding with me. He fell asleep with me holding him for his nap. It was so awesome!

[bumpkin]

Hey Jaimie

I was thinking the same thing during a conversation with my DH today. I was saying that with our first (adopted abirth) I didn't want him in preschool a minute longer than he had to be for me to work part time from home. With the next (adopting a sib group of 2 or 3) I was thinking that they might benefit from being in preschool 5 days a week - so that most of the days would be the same for them. coming from a chaotic (presumably) environment, I was thinking that this could be better for them. I'm glad to hear that someone else is thinking this way as well. Anyone else have any thoughts.????

Of course, I don't even have them yet so it will depend on the situation, but I also was thinking, like Jaimie3, that the regular consistency 5 days a week could be beneficial for them. (assuming 3 under 6 at least a couple should be preschool age.

Thanks
Bumpkin

[dadfor2]

well, when we first put our youngest in day care..part time...its was a structured day care. He did ok, but had his diffulculties.

but when i put him in his preschool, 5 days a week, 10-5pm.. though i felt guilt about it, but i had to start back full time...he is doing much better.

he enjoys being around his 'friends' and learning to play better with other kids.

He still has his issues, he still doesnt like to go to 'school' but he is much easier to handle with the full time structure.

but this is just my experience.


dadfor2

[kyleashmom]

I have a son that is 9 and he has to have set bouderies and if not he will run with it. Meaning he will just act out big time. I think she needs to change her approach to your son, not all children respond the sameway to rewards, consquences.

Try to explain to her how you do things at home, see what she has to say to that. IF not then she will have to deal with his problems, there is not alot you can do if you are not there with him. That is what I have had to do with school, if they won't deal with my son then they get the brunt end of his behavior, if they are firm and bounderies then he is much better.

Good Luck
Debbie

[celinenj02]

Positive reinforcement can cause anxiety? Good grief! I've heard it all now! This sounds like a very liberal point of view and I don't agree with it at all course it's only my opinion. I admit being the sister of the top teacher in a local public school, I am shocked that you are a teacher. I can't imagine getting children to comply without some sort of positive reinforcement or praise.

[dadfor2]

quote:
"Positive reinforcement can cause anxiety? Good grief! I've heard it all now! This sounds like a very liberal point of view and I don't agree with it "

heres a little education for you:

we are talking about adoptive children here. There are some kids who have been adopted and need to control their surrondings for fear of 'dying'.....there is no gray with some of these kids.

so, for positive reinforcement, yes, it can cause anxiety.....they start to do real well and then they start to get anxious because they are starting to let their control mechanisms down and that scared them to death....then they resort back to their old behaviors on trying to keep people away.

though no disrepect to your sister, but these are not 'normal' kids we are talking about.

plus, kids respond differently to any parenting.

i bet if you ask your sister is there one way to parent a child, she will say no. If there was, we would not need this forum or there wouldnt be so many parenting books.

before you reply, ask your sister what she thinks...

dadfor2

[HappyMomAnna]

Originally posted by celinenj02
Positive reinforcement can cause anxiety? Good grief! I've heard it all now! This sounds like a very liberal point of view

I thought it was the liberal point of view that ruined musical chairs.....did you know that NOW when the children play musical chairs NO ONE looses!!! We do not want to hurt their little feelings....

It is ok to have a political point of view but be careful when you do.... It is the liberal point of view to shower children with entitlements, winning every game and over attention to 'positive' reinenforcement. And if it has to be turned into a political issue--you are the one expressing the 'liberal' point of view here....Conservatives in general believe a lot more in natual consequences and in discipline--responsibility for actions....it happens to be the liberal point of view that has undermined a parents ability to raise children with the acceptance of losses and the consequences of misbehaviors.

Many of the children being adopted from Foster Care were experinecing a very dysfunctional lifestyle before they were placed into to care. My daughter was POSTIVELY reinforced for shoplifting and touching grown mens private parts. She was positively reniforced for fetching the try and straw so her birhtmother could snort another line of meth. The last approach that will be productive in her life is to have her every move postively reinforced...she MUST have consequences that HELP her understand and learn realistic boundries....

[dadfor2]

lol........anna, i think im a parenting liberal...lol

on sunday i brought my two boys to a birthday party...the brave dad that i am.....lol

well, they decided to play musical chairs..my younger son did not want to play....but my older son did...oh boy, here we go!!!!....lol

i stood their watching him, with pure fear...he is not such a great loser..if you know what i mean....

well, he did really well, and then he finally lost....he came running to me and I told him what agreat job he did and he was smiling...so i just wiped the sweat from my brow and thanked god...lol....good lose there.

but with the libral thing...i took my younger son to a birthday party..bowling party, two weeks ago...

well, when he bowled, one of the woman looked at me and said "how many pins did he knock down "...i said.."huh?, i dont know...does it matter"

then with her 'evil eyes', she said "yes, we are keeping score"..so i looked at her and said "well, if thats the case, he got a strike...."....lol

to be honest, i was kinda shocked they were keeping score. they were 4-6 yrs old....the goal on the kids minds were how many can I knock down, not how many more did i knock down then johnny.....just kinda took me off guard a little.

i think competive sports for young children has gotten so out of hand that a child just cant play anymore, but its to win win win...

however, when i play games with my kids..i will win sometimes. i wont let them win all the time, because i think its important for them to know how to lose also....

my older son still have issues when he loses basketball...but were working on it....lol

though, i do let them win on all the races......"lets see who can put our shoes on the fastest".."lets see who can put our jacket on the fastest..." "lets see who can race to the car".....

its amazing..but they always win at those games...or should i say, i always win, because they are doing what i want them to do....lol

i guess its all how you look at it......lol
dadfor2

[HappyMomAnna]

dadfor2---there is nothing worng with either syle of parenting. In fact I think there should be a balance. To me too far one way is just being too far one way.

Question though---do you think it would have been more benificial for your son to play musical chairs where no one lost? Or do think that being able to handle the lose was a step forward in his development? That fact is had he played the 'new' version all he would have done is walk around in a circle and look for the unoccupied chair when the music stopped.... I guess thats fun for awhile. But, by playing the game the way we learned to play it your son just had a moment where he lost and he controlled himself! (BY THE WAY THIS IS THE TIME FOR THE POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT).

I agree about competitive sports however, I cannot stand to go to a 'game' where a bunch of six year olds are running around while grown adults are screaming at them! I like individual sports activities when they are under about junior high school age. Swimming, or gymnastics or martial arts.

By the way I knew my last post here would insite some flamming of me. I do confess I am a little bit conservative and will always try to keep this to myself unless someone calls my thoughts liberal and then by golly I have to stand up and point the finger the right direction.

BALANCE really is the key. I might have my oipinions about certain things but while raising my children it is my job to tell them thats how I believe--there are other ways--mine is not the only one--you can choose for yourself.