[HappyMomAnna]

funny this should come up--On Wednesdy I got a call from the kindergarten teacher--'M' had decided instead of re-checkers she would use a red marker to make the pepperoni on her playdough pizza's--Thus ruining all the playdough for everyone else in the class...The teacher asked If I would make a new batch of playdough to replace all the ruined stuff...no biggie.

Anyway--before 'M' go home I had decided the consequence would be that she and I would go to the sotre for all the stuff--and the 'M' would pay for it from her own money....

She jumps off the bus and comes running--smiling and happy as could be---and announced that she was soooooo excited because tonight she would be staying up late to make new playdough! Her teacher had told her that was HER consequence.....NOT.

Sometime the 'normal' things that well trainned professionals learn in order to deal with children will not apply to our children. My bios would have understood it was not an honor this time to be making playdough--'M' was thrilled with her so called consequence! 'M'--did NOT make the playdough and I have yet another call into the school to discuss some of the issues of telling my child what that can and cannot do at home. In our house 6-year old's do not cook...

It has been a far more effective consequence in the fact that the ingrediants to make playdough are not really cheep--and 'M' will hoefully not do this again having lost about $8.00. Had she made playdough I promise there would have been another mishap in the future....

I have sotpped using time-outs---No one knew what they were when my older ones were kids so I never used them back then--tried them with 'M' and really they accomplished nothing. I use natural consequences that vary the expectations are clear and stay the same.

[manon]

Another good book to read is "Building the Bonds of Attachment" by Daniel Hughes. I put off reading it because I felt like my little girl & I are attaching pretty well, and because I had to special order it, but I finally did order it because it had been recommended by some people I respect a lot.

While it's oriented toward how to deal with a child with an insecure attachment, it also gives good advice for dealing with any toddler or child who is emotionally at a toddler level.

[jamie3]

Semay, Why are you the only one who knows the "right" way to deal with kids? I also don't appreciate your opening sentence....implying that I'm an idiot.

Arrgghhh, what a mixed message that sends.

I have been a mom for 17 years and a teacher for 1/2 that.

Talking my kids after time out and then telling them that I still love them has been very effective. They MUST have that hug after they have been disciplined because they are so afraid that they are "bad" and that we don't love them. They are in counseling as well, and the counselor loves their progress and our system.

Lucyjoy and Anna are some of my very favorite people on here and I truly value their opinion on matters.

Saying that all children will respond to the same type of discipline is very, very difficult to believe. Kids are individuals and must be treated as such. My oldest daughter was so stubborn and I had to use some very stong parenting skills with her. My second daughter cried if I looked at her for more than 10 seconds.

I have said throughout this post that the boys are getting better at daycare, so what we are doing, must be working! I think we'll keep it up.

I don't think that I can see myself taking them to daycare in the summer though.

[semay7]

Jamie, why'd you have to go and make this personal? I certainly don't have all the answers nor do I always think that I am "right". I did suggest following the advice of therapists!!! Your other post, "pee problems", sounds like you blame the fc and can't help but compare him to your perfect little bio. I'm sure that is not the case, but it sounds that way. It just is frustrating for me that you seek advice, but only seem to want to hear what you want to hear. I for one have learned a lot about attachment from listening to the advice on this post. I believe that there is benefit in listening to all sorts of people. Also, parents are most certainly experts especially with their own children so I didn't mean to offend. However, to offer 'expert advice' involves backing it up with facts and information. What started me off was the post by lucyjoy saying "Although I'm not a fan of time out, ther is nothing wrong with hugging a child after they've taking the time to think about what they've done". That is her opinion and it's just plan wrong. All of the research and professional opinions say what a mixed message that sends. I'm too bored of this to defend everyting else that I said, but I could because it is based on fact!! Anyway, thanks to everyone who did offer valuable information on this post. I learned a lot. I hope everyone else did as well. And, my apologizes to those that I offended.

Edited for Terms of Service Violation

1. Personal attacks on individuals or agencies will not be tolerated. Community Websites are intended to be a positive, safe place for everyone. If you read a post and your views differ please respond in a kind and respectful manner. Some of the situations posted on the forums are complex. Please express your thoughts respectfully in a manner that is helpful and courteous.

2. Offensive language is not permitted.

[lucyjoy]

Jamie is asking valid questions and does not sound like an idiot.

Also, which experts are you referring too? None of the experts I've spoken with agree with the "facts" you're stating. While you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine, I find your attitude arrogant and insulting.

[jamie3]

ditto to lucyjoy!

[seedsower]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. But an opinion is only that unless it is backed up with fact. With over 10 years of child development experience, I'm here to tell you that time-out followed by hugs is not a good idea!

Dear Semay7,

I agree with you that this forum provides all of us with an incredible opportunity to learn. I am very much interested in the "FACTS" regarding displays of affection after appropriate time out periods.

Please share with the group any documentation you have.

Oh, yes one thing more. Please be sure that what is provided, speaks specifically to children that have experienced the following.

Fetal exposure to alcohol and drugs.
Neglect including physical and emotional, lack of education etc.
Abuse, again physical, emotional and sexual
Abandonment, by bio parents, extended family, foster parents and possibly unsuccesful adoption placements.

Sorry, one more quick idea. It would be best if the "FACTS" also was in reference to children suffering from the following.

ADHD
ADD
OD
FAS
FAE
Autism
Bipolar disorder
Clincal Depression
Attachment Disorder

These are the children that we speak of on this list. Any assistance the "FACTS" can provide us to help us as we work to raise our children to become "normal, healthy, responsible and stable adults is very much appreciated.

[HappyMomAnna]

When I have an argument with DH--we talk about it after words in order to sort out the 'stuff' that was part of the argument.

When my child is in trouble for any reason--we talk about it after the heat of the moment and I affrim my love to my child--especially my newly adopted child who often has some insecurities about the possiblity that I might be so mad I give her away!

I have often hugged and kissed my daughter in the middle of a tantrum--in the midddle of a time out--in the middle of a conflict---she should feel safe and know that I LOVE her even when I am angry--even when she is naughty.

My daughter has been in the middle of screaming how much she hates me--she wants to live someplace else---and I have hugged her...and held her while she spit and hit and scratched my arms...

The most special gift my father ever gave me was to tell me he loved me after I had messed up.

I guess if a family does not do a lot of hugging in general that a hug after a time-out would be odd---but, the one thing we can do to help attachment is to hug and say a thousand times how much our love will NEVER change just because something has gone wrong.

Our children have come for pasts we do not know too much about. They have seen and felt the anger of other people who once loved them. Some of our children actually believe deep inside that 'they were bad' and that was the reason their parent lost them.....my daughter actually dreams her birthmother is happy now and has adopted 'good' kids.

Her birthmother hit her with a fly swatter when she was angry--my daughter has TRIED to make me angry often to see if she can get me to hit her with a fly swatter--she has actually come out and said, "if I am so naughty then why did you adopt me?"

Some children do NOT talk as much as my little girl does....she is an open book for information on her feelings--thankfully for us. She has deep pain that she was a bad-girl and that oneday I will send her away....I really cannot even imagine NOT hugging her after she has been disciplined in any way.

I also have never ever heard that is was NOT OK to show our child love following anything--before--after---during. In fact I would suspect that the most well adjusted children grow up knowing thier parents love is really unconditional....as it should be.

I guess if you would like to "hold it aggainst" a child even after the consequence has been PAID--that is your right as a parent. I didn't realize that a time out came with Probation but knowing this I am now even more convienced that I as a Parent do not have the skills to use 'time-out' Probation after penalty is to me not a good method to raise my children....I will continure to say, "I love you!" even when I am angry--mad and inflicting the consequence---

[Hunter's Mom]

I am also "not an expert" - only being a mom for 9 years and a fm and a teacher for special needs kids for 10 years.

First of all, let me say that with my bio son, I always make sure that whatever punishment he has fits the crime, so to speak. That means it is never the same thing twice, really. I also make sure that AFTER the heat of the moment, we have a talk about what he did, why it was worng, what he could do differently in the future and THAT I LOVE HIM!!!!! We have to reinforce that the behavior is not desirable - the child is still lovable and is loved.

I do the same thing with my foster kids and my neices and nephews. Each child is treated individually, though for each instance. Does that make sense?

What is wrong with hugging a child after a time out? Maybe I am missing something.

*********************
Jamie,

I am a big advocate for pre-school. IMO, if it is a structured learning environment, I would let them go for the summer. If it is just playschool, I probably would not. I love to be at home with my son, but I like for him to be in school, too. It's tough to decide sometimes. Either way, you will have time to bond with your kids if you are off. .

Christy