[dadfor2]

hi anna,

as you know, or probably can tell, im a hard core liberal...lol

however, no, i dont think musical chairs should be played where everyone wins.....

some competiveness is fine and children need to learn that.
the world is competitive and not fair.....thats one thing i do know.

some games should be competitive, and others not. I think it all depends on the game they are playing and the age of the children.

i dont think being liberal has anything to do with winning or losing games though.....lol.

I think you put it best...

quote"

"did you know that NOW when the children play musical chairs NO ONE looses!!! We do not want to hurt their little feelings...."

lol.......i think thats more of parents trying to protect their children from having any uncomfortable feelings. neither liberal or conservative.....but i do feel that children need to lose and feel those feelings, in order to prepare themselves for their future.

uncomfortablitly, fear, sadness, anger....these are all feelings that we feel, and i think we should not rob our children from feeling them.

as the old saying goes..."its not if you win or lose...its how you play the game..." and i think thats what we should be teaching our kids....is how to play the game....

dadfor2

[HappyMomAnna]

I think it is very possible for Parents from completely different view points to share a common goal of raising healthy children!

....by the way that is the only reason i took offense to the 'liberal' remark made by one post here.

I feel that successful parenting is when we can raise our children and have them feel safe in forming thier own ideas. I personally, am ver conservative--however I have raised a flaming liberal! How did that happen?

My bios are a year apart--had I only had my son I would have assumed he simply adopted my 'way' of thinkng and living. But, I don't just have a son--I have his sister too....and she is very much her own person. As much as I cannot stand her viewpoints the good news is that she feels free to share them with me!

Maybe I really am a liberal?

no--that cannot be true! Help me--I cannot be a liberal. But, I can be a tolerant--diverse and open minded person!

I raised the bios telling them things this way:
"Everyone has the chance to decide things for themselves. Some choices we make in life come with strings attached. Not all people are tolerant of your right to decide what you want to believe.

The reality is that some choices will place you into the minority and with that will come judgements and biases and possibley problems. For examply my personal chioce is not to have an interratial marriage--NOT THAT I THINK OTHERS SHOULD NOT--but, just because for me the string attached are simply more then I wish to accept. I don't support the attidue of judging others for their choice--but, I am not everyone and there are people who will not support that decision. I have decided to elimanate that battle from my list of battles in life...you are welcome to choose your own."

And they have


Back to the "over Praising" thing! I agree our children need to be praised and hopefully far more times then they are repramanded...however, I believe they do need to suffer the consequesnces of their choices so that they can grow up picking thier own battles and knowing the implications of thier choices.

Losing a game is reality. Not getting a job you interview for happens....not everyone who is part of your life will tolerate negative behariors from you and still stand their and tell you they love you.....I do not want you to cheet on your wife--she may not parise you for telling her how sorry you are.... Some suffering is needed as a child in order to even understand the reality of life!

[jamie3]

I can't imagine getting children to comply without some sort of positive reinforcement or praise.

I can't believe celine is the child of a teacher since she didn't read where I wrote:

she uses positive reinforcement almost exclusively. I agree that this does have a place in training, but I think it is too much pressure on R. to be good and please.

So if I say that I don't think positive reinforcement should be used exclusively, I'm a liberal? Would someone please explain that to me? I just read in Toddler Adoption that both positive reinforcement and time-out if used alone can be very harmful to abused/neglected toddlers.

Sue has begun to use time out with R. too now and is having good results. We are getting good reports more days a week than before now.

By the way, I race my kids to get ready all of the time. I don't let them win always but I do a lot. They need some wins in their lives after all of the losses. I don't, however, believe they need to be pitited and allowed to have their way in everything.

Now the great debate is whether or not to keep them in their daycare/preschool program during the summer while I am not teaching. I love the idea of us all being home 24 hours a day and hate it at the same time. I need to hold their spot at daycare and the state is paying for it as long as they continue to attend. They are also getting practice coloring, painting, cutting, etc.

[dadfor2]

sorry jamie....

looks like we went off track...lol

maybe you can put the kids part time in day care, a few hours. This way you have your time to get things done and when you have your kids home, all the chores are done so you can spend quailty time with them.

I dont think day care is a bad thing, though i know some disagree, but my children have started to form realationships with other kids and we have play dates. the kids are exited when their friend is coming over.

I dont know, i think with my kids, they have had so many social problems that being around other kids actually helps them.

friends is a good thing.


dadfor2

[HappyMomAnna]

Originally posted by jamie3
Now the great debate is whether or not to keep them in their daycare/preschool program during the summer while I am not teaching. I love the idea of us all being home 24 hours a day and hate it at the same time. I need to hold their spot at daycare and the state is paying for it as long as they continue to attend. They are also getting practice coloring, painting, cutting, etc.

Gee can I relate to this!

I will tell you how I have been dealing with this whole issue. We do not want to lose our spot in the day school either and I am a stay at home mother but the program there is so fantastic it is so hard to let go of!

What we have done is register for the MIN time in order to keep our place.... And it is actually kind of nice we went this way. Right now I have my system set up where our daughter has Kindergarten 2 and 1/2 days a week (very strange!) But we have her attending on the other half day only so I have her out of the house three days a week--which honestly is kind of nice. I have the baby in a morning program from 8-11:30 two mornings a week.

One morning when our daughter is home with me alone and baby is at day care and one morning baby is at day care while she is at school (I get 3 1/2 hours to myslef!) and then there is one day I have both children with no time line all day long!

I am loving this situation because I am getting quality time alone with each of the children and a little break for myself!

If I were you I would find out what the MIN times can be for the pre-school attendance and ask the state if they would like a little lower pay out for the summer--but are willing to increase it back in the fall?

I loved the 'idea' of 24/7 too--trust me it is not exactly as romantic as we want it to be...after finding time with each kid and time for myself I am very much HAPPY

[Annie6]

Does your sitter understand that these children all need to be treated as individuals? What might work for one child might not work for another. The general expectations would be the same but some just need a little more disipline than another while others need less or a different form. I wonder if this has happened from the first day in daycare or just started (which would mean the honeymoon is over). As a daycare provider no matter what the typical house time outs are each child needs it's individual attention. Naps are no problem for this daycare provider. I have kids who would never nap at home but when they come here its just the way life is. Even the toughest foster child learns early that bedtime is bedtime. Has your daycare provider had her training on how to deal with children with special needs? Maybe she could ask for sugestions from your county daycare support services, on how to handle kids like these.

Annie6

[jamie3]

She has never mentioned any training, but things are going better. We have gone the whole week without a bad daycare day. Monday he was in time-out for rough housing with the kids but I think that was because he hadn't seen them all weekend and was excited. She said he wasn't being mean, just was too rough and wanted to wrestle.

She wants to keep them over the summer and was talking about their spots for next year, so it must not be too bad.

[lucyjoy]

If it were me, I would keep them home during the summer and request a spot for next fall when school starts. It would be really good bonding time.

[semay7]

"At home we have a time-out chair and we talk to them after they have had time out. Then they sit for another 2 minutes to think about what we have said. We then give hugs and kisses and forget the episode. I don't use candy to enforce behavior, but I do give praise for good behavior. I actually don't give warnings for temper tantrums or hitting, etc. Discipline is immediate and consistent"

Arrgghhh, what a mixed message that sends. Punishment (time out) followed by praise (hugs and kisses) is sooo contradictory. I've been a child development professional for many years and I've never heard positive reinforcement referred to in a negative way. All people need positive reinforcement (raises, bonuses, recognition). They also need consequences that match their actions (DUI = loss of driving). Time out is neither and hugs and kisses as a part of a consequence is very confusing. If you insist on time-out, keep it to 1 minute per year and talk during that time. Of course, temper tantrums should be ignored first.

Try a book called "How to Behave so your Preschooler will Too!" by Sal Severe.

Don't even get me started on the whole liberal thing!

[lucyjoy]

Although I'm not a fan of time out, ther is nothing wrong with hugging a child after they've taking the time to think about what they've done. You dislike the behvior, but that doesn't change the love for the child would be the message. However, with traumatized children, time out is just not useful.

As for all people need is positive reenforcement? This won't work with children with attachment problems.

[semay7]

First let me say that children w/ attachment disorders or other illnesses that require therapy should have a therapist and fp should follow the advice of said therapists. That being said...

Positive reinforcement can and will work for everyone it just takes time. Any change requires 30 days of constant practice to be effective. If a child has trouble attaching, what better method than to reinforce behaviors that you like. Punishing and alienating a child (ie Time-out) can't possibly help a child to attach. And, young children only remember the last bit of something (that's why rules are said like "walk" instead of "don't run" because children only hear "run" and miss the "don't" part) so hugging a child after time-out causes them to remember a hug as the consequence for their action which only reinforces a negative behavior.

[lucyjoy]

With an attachment disorder child, their thought processes do not follow normal suit. If you reward a child with this disorder for doing what he should do, he'll think you're stupid which makes him unsafe. Luckily, an attachment disorder therapist would recommend using something else. I don't like timeout and would never use it with a traumatized child.

However, if I were going to use it, I would talk to my child and hug them afterwords.

I also prefer Parenting With Love and Logic for all kids.

[semay7]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. But an opinion is only that unless it is backed up with fact. With over 10 years of child development experience, I'm here to tell you that time-out followed by hugs is not a good idea!

[lucyjoy]

Well, I'm no expert, just a mom of nine special needs children.
I think sticking a kid in time out and not talking to them and hugging them sounds a lot like punishment with little learning value except mom only likes me when I'm good. But, like you said, that's simply my opinion as I have no "experteise" in this area.

[mckenna]

i have nearly 10 years of child development experience but you don't get facts on a child with an attachment dissorder until you have parented oneor been the caregiver for one for extended peirods of time. i have to agree with lucy as any advice i have seen her give has only been reinforced through trial at home with my son and when i run it by my attachment specialist. she is typically right on.