[sunshinemomma]

Once again you seem like you have all the answers. That's great. Hope that it all works out for you. More importantly for your foster daughter that you hope to adopt.

By the way, my daughter has a pony and puppies etc etc etc. She also has visits with her siblings including a half sibling that she hadn't seen since she was a baby.

We don't have any plans for some self-fulfilling prophecy.

[crick]

Look, if you don't believe in sibling bond or that it's beneficial to her, then maybe look at it another way..will it HARM her to have a playdate? Kids play...they don't sit and talk about family relationships.

You are worried about things far in the future that quite frankly have nothing to do with the current situation of a few visits with her brother. So maybe quit focusing so much on the experts and their timelines, and go with the day to day decisions?

Sorry if I sound harsh...I just truly don't get what the situation is.

[Hadley2]

I'm sorry you are feeling so upset and pressured into something that just doesn't feel comfortable to you. And I'm not surprised that it doesn't seem comfortable if someone is trying to force it and if it means changing your perspective on what "my family" means to you and different members of your family as well as your vision of your family living and growing into the future.

And I absolutely agree that parents need to be free to make the most responsible decisions they can for their child. That is why I take a stand against open adoption agreements--NOT open adoptions, which I think can be beneficial more often than not--at every opportunity. I do not think anyone should make promises, especially binding ones, regarding decisions that affect their ability to keep their child safe during their childhood.

That said, I am a bit taken aback by your assertions re how your fd knowing her brother from a nonverbal age forward is going to have all these negative consequences. That it would somehow damage her self-image or sense of identity. Or disrupt your family life or threaten her permanency. Or that it would be worse to know him for a few years and then be separated by a possible move for which there is not now any reason to think will happen. Or that there is some magic, turning-point age at which children are "ready" to be told they are adopted and have other biological relatives.

And I agree with Crick that, short term, a few visits now don't necessarily translate into a lifetime commitment. At the same time, if it became one, I think it would contribute to your daughter's healthy development, not harm it.

You keep referring to research you've done. I really can't imagine what research would support any of these ideas except something from the 1950s or earlier or some current researcher outside the mainstream.

As for "being ready," children are ready the day they are born to begin learning their story. The more naturally it is told, conversed about, etc., the better for them. How in the world could simply dumping the whole enchilada at once as if it were--and actually had been kept as--a terrible secret and frightening news on a child raised to believe that she is a biochild and that therefore adoption is "other" and alien to her experience possibly be better for her? How could that not send the message that her adoption is somehow bad? Why would anyone actually plan to do that to another person?

Would you wait for a "suitable" age to tell your biochild that you gave birth to them? Why or why not? Why should it be any different for an adoptee's story? Do they not, as children, also need to hear their story?

Again, I do not believe any credible mental health professional would recommend holding this information back to some "suitable" age. Mainstream thinking on this has for many, many years been consistently on the side of naturalizing adoption at as early an age as possible.

Knowing her brother also won't confuse her, I assure you. She may have to come up to speed on traditional, mainstream interpretations of family relationships when she is a little older, probably sometime in first grade. She will probably have questions, but they won't be the kind that mean she has lost her sense of place in your family, only that she is trying to map his. At that time, though, she will most likely have many friends whose families don't fit the mold, either. More don't these days than do. Honestly, and this is not an accusation, it is human and I can relate to it, I think that "confusing the child" may simply be a blind for not matching up to what you thought and want your family to be.

I don't believe knowing him will harm her self-image any, either. I actually don't believe there is any credible research that would indicate that. Quite the opposite. It is the mystery family, the mystery origin, etc., that erodes a child's sense of self. As well, the secret family--the secret that you keep and that she senses--that is what will make her feel as if there is something wrong about her. "Self-fulfilling prophecy" is, again, an idea from the earlier part of the last century. She can know them while identifying with you. As long as you are secure in your parenthood, she will be secure in her identity as your daughter.

And, yes, she will have added facets to her identify that don't come directly from you. And if you have moments of insecurity, that makes you human, not bad; even biological mothers have many moments of insecurity about their parenthood.

Along that line, as for not telling a child that she is adopted until some "later" time, that is not healthy, either, we know that. In the first place, that will mean keeping a secret, a life-turning secret, from your dd. She WILL KNOW that something is not right, that something is off and she WILL assume that there is something not quite right about her. This happens around virtually all family secrets, from secret adoptions to secret dad drinks too much, to secret crazy Auntie Jane, etc. Credible research supports that--family secrets are toxic to healthy development, period.

Secondly, when she does find out, from her perspective, you will have LIED to her, for her entire life, and she will feel betrayed. I can pretty much guarantee that she will not say, "oh thank you for protecting me from that news when I was young and fragile and impressionable." If she is extremely mature and compassionate, she will forgive you with love, pat you on the head, and proceed to live her life as she sees fit as if she is the adult. She'll forgive, but she'll rely on herself before she trusts your judgment. If she is like most children over the age of 9 or 10, however, you will have simply lost her trust and ignited the anger fueled by sensing that secret and feeling bad without knowing why all those years.

Our dd "met" her half-siblings as a baby and a toddler but had no conscious memories of them by age 5. From age 5 to 7 or 8, we really didn't know if they were real or first mother's hallucinations. She finally got to see them and talk with them for the first time in her conscious memory at the first mother's funeral this past summer. Despite the circumstances, it was wonderful. Faces mirrored hers. Gestures, body build, vibe, it was all there. Even though she is also related to us and her sisters within our family biologically, this was just a wonderful affirmation for her of her other origins. I don't know if we will be able to keep a regular relationship going or not--they are much older and have very different lives--but even if it is just a single meeting during childhood, it was very, very worthwhile.

It would have been so much better, I have no doubt, if she'd known them and about them sooner. That was something I really wanted to give her, and couldn't, until other things came to pass. I am so grateful for that day, though, because I know we were lucky to have it.

Probably this thread will continue with similar pro-contact thoughts. Give yourself time to gain perspective; you've done research, now let it and what you hear here percolate. Good luck, I hope it all resolves well for your daughter and her brother.

[chloroxsis]

Before your child was placed with you, did Mom have a "no contact" order? If so, you will have a valid concern. What is different that makes the no contact order. However, usually on a sibling visit, the child comes over with the CW. Does either of child have a CASA or Guardian Ad Litem? Perhaps they can help. I think that the courts do want to preserve some of the child's biological attachments. At the ages of these two, they don't understand siblings biological or adoptive. I do think when children grow up and can't picture any family, they seem to feel lost. They seem to have a need to find someone like them. At this age, you can make an impact on teen mom, the baby and your child can have pictures of her playing with the brother she may one day become separated from.

It's hard because when you do a foster-to-adopt, you do take risk. But adoption always involve at least two families. You can't make that go away.

If you have concerns about safety, you can bring that up in court. They need to be valid or the court will think you are not cooperating.

Good luck! There's no easy answer, but you do have a legal obligation.

[LeighM]

You can find research to back up any opinion that you have. But it doesn't mean it is right. I am not sure if your original post was just to vent or to seek out the opinion of others. My guess is you just wanted the support of others who think like you. I stand behind my choice of allowing the contact with our ad siblings.

[CaddoRose]

One solution is to set up a PO Box where you can receive pics from the other family of the brother. This way there is no immediate contact, but you can control what info your daughter gets as she ages. This way you can protect her from the bad things in the bio family and still allow her to know she has a brother out there.

From my experience of having known a lot of adoptees, no matter how wonderful their childhood is, they want to know something about their blood relations. Your daughter may not be able to have a face to face relationship with him now, but she can know about him and when she is an adult, then she can decide about meeting.

(P.S. I also second everything in Hadley2's post)

[WVMOMof2]

Thank you... you are the only one that provided me some perpective on how my daughter would feel. My mom said the same thing. She met her half-siblings when she was old and she felt no connection. It was a curiosity. A "one had my eyes and one had the same color hair" kind of thing. Both of her parents wanted what was in the best interest of the children and they decided a normal, healthy, stable childhood was most important and they could tell them later. Even sibling visits every 90 would not establish any kind of bond or I would have a bond with my orthodontist I see every 30 days. Babies this age do not know genetics.
Would I miss my brother if I was kept apart from him? You bet I would because I have a bond with him that formed with him through daily interaction and sharing of common experiences. Their lives will be vastly different and they need to allow me to make this decision in the best interest of my child. I found an amazing research study last night from UCSF that is in all of the medical journasl and was in newspapers all over the world because of it's impact and have case law to supportmy decision, but hearing from you... from what my daughter's perspective may be years from now... has verified what my mom told me... you know how mom's tell you things to make you feel better, like.. it's good luck when it rains on your wedding day : )
Thank you for your understanding and support.

[WVMOMof2]

After discussing it with other adopted children as adults who never met, met in childhood, met in adulthood and hearing it from their perspective (as verified by Longing2BMom). Hadley2 made me curious, but Psychiatrist Herbert Weider feels strongly that telling your child he's adopted too early can cause permanent emotional damage. Says Weider "My clinical data unequivocally demonstrates the traumatic effect of early communication and its participation in anxiety, confusion, and regressions... the needs and development of a child 2 or 3 years are not well served by revelation of his adoptive status". And ALL experts agree you do not have children meet their siblings before they are told they are adopted.
Remember that boy you used to have play dates with? You had the same biological mother.
I was hoping to hear from more people who were in the child's shoes... not on the outside looking in. You can't know how those children feel. You need to be or have been the child.
The idea of this was to get opinions from people and make me look at this from different points of view from the child's perspective. Thank you Longing2BMomx

[crick]

Well from the perspective of a parent who has 4 children that have always know they were adopted, I assure you they do not have emotional trauma stemming from their knowledge of being adopted. They are reaching the age where they need to know about their 1/2 siblings and I admittedly keep thinking it's not the right time. I know that I just might be shooting myself in the foot because when I DO tell them, they just might be pretty angry with me for not telling them beforehand. So the later years just might induce more of an emotional trauma than the experts think.

As a wife of an adult adoptee who has also known he was always adopted and had been told at a very young age, again..no emotional trauma.

My dh just met his bmom and 1/2 siblings last weekend in fact. And you are right, since they didn't grow up together, there is no bond. However, he sure did like knowing about them, meeting them and seeing a bit of himself in them. Where it goes from here, who knows? But the point is, even without that true sibling bond, he appreciates it. DNA doesn't make a family in adoption, but it is still a piece of the big picture. Your dd will decide for herself one day how big of a piece it is for her.

I find it interesting that the only perspectives you want are those that agree with you. And doubly interesting that you say
"I was hoping to hear from more people who were in the child's shoes... not on the outside looking in. You can't know how those children feel. You need to be or have been the child." when presumably you yourself are not in your child's shoes, are on the outside looking in, and do not know how she'll feel, and are not that child.

Yet the rest of us who have been there done that and do have some educational information or ideas for you just don't know anything. Interesting.

You strike me as a person who is very well read and is doing her research. That's great! Hopefully you'll find the answers you need for the best interests of your daughter. It's not going to be the fancy homes, cars, trips to Europe, and all the other things that matter the most to her when she is an adult. What will matter the most is that you as her mother did what was truly right for HER. (whatever that might be)

Best of luck to you...

[momraine]

I know a lot of children and adults who are adopted. The only ones who feel traumatized by it were the ones who feel they were lied to. The ones who were told later, feel like they were lied to up until that point. The ones who feel like they have always known feel special and wanted and not traumatized by it. The ones who find out later, feel betrayed by the secret kept from them. Before adopting I did tons and tons of research and reading. While it is true that most of what you can find you can find other stuff to contradict it, most of the books and papers and reports and such all agreed that it was best to tell the children they are adopted from the very begining, to make it a positive thing and just a part of thier story. Not to make a it a secret, that makes it seem like something bad. I would say 98% of what I read even if they did not agree on other things did agree on telling kids that they are adopted as early as possible.

[parenting-over-40]

Hadley2 - I agreed with you 100% until I read the most recent post from WVMOMof2 who stated this quote from Herbert Weider.

Originally Posted by WVMOMof2

Says Weider "My clinical data unequivocally demonstrates the traumatic effect of early communication and its participation in anxiety, confusion, and regressions... the needs and development of a child 2 or 3 years are not well served by revelation of his adoptive status".

I looked up this quote and found that he made this statement in 1977. So, this expert information wasn't from the 50's (as Hadley2 suggested) but from the 70's. Oh my! Still a very LOOOOOONG time ago. Way too long ago to be relevant now.

For someone who has 20 years experience dealing with physicians on many different professional levels, I take what "the experts" say with a grain of salt. Often they don't live in the real world or "the trenches" so to speak. Actually, Weider states that this is "my clinical data". Thus, many of these so called clinical experts don't live with this day in and day out like we do.

That being said, WVMOMof2 - since you are looking for feedback from the child's perspective, I would encourage you to pose this question on the ADULT ADOPTEE board.

Please realize that everyone here is trying to help you. Our goal isn't to make you mad. I would encourage you to not get defensive when someone answers your questions and you don't agree. I would also encourage you to be open & listen to what people are saying and look at this from all perspectives.

[KarynB]

They do have a bond - they were born from the same womb. They have a common birth mother. That is a bond.

Your daughter's life did not start when she met you - it started 9 months before that.

You said "you can't miss someone you never knew". I'm quite sure most adult adoptees couldn't disagree with you more on that one.

Most current literature now shows that adoptees fair much better later in life if adoption is just "common knowledge" to them - it's just part of their life story, not a "big announcement" to be made at some perfect age.

Longin2bMOM - I think your situation is very different. You had the choice to know your family, and then choose who to have relationships. Children don't choose adoption, we choose it for them, and then they need to live with the consequences of that. Blanket statements like "DNA doesn't matter" (to me) never work - to some it matters very much. To some it doesn't matter. Since this LO is only 21 months who knows if it will matter to her, but why not have the relationship/contact in place so she can make the choice later?

Here's a list of characteristics of a successful adoptive parent I got at an adoption conference - especially note "un-possessive attitude towards child".

What makes a good adoptive parent?

• Realistic expectations (biggest issue in adoptive breakdowns)
• Genuine respect for birth parents
• Understanding of loss issue for birth parents and child
• Understanding of loss issue for themselves
• Acceptance and acknowledge child’s differences as an adopted child
• Unpossessive attitude towards child
• Empathy (for child's loss, for different stages of grief in the child’s life, for times when the child won’t want to discuss adoption…)
• Assertiveness and ability to advocate for the child
• Openness to support and learning from others
• Flexibility and ability to improvise
• Interchangeable supportive roles as a couple
• A network of support
• High tolerance for emotional pain (and ability to defer their own emotions and put the childs needs first)
• Sense of humour
• Sense of spirituality or source of inner strength
• Ability to meet own personal needs
• Ability to provide an accepting nurturing and stable environment for child
• Ability to work as s team, with therapists, schools, professions etc.
• Ability to be reflective
• Self awareness willingness to seek help

Good luck to you. And to your daughter.

[BethanyB]

So it was the best thing for the new baby to be placed with you but since that didn't happen NOW there is no need for that relationship?

Your child has another human being in the world who shares their DNA. Someone who may share their eyes or smile or other traits. I think it may be hard for non adopted people to understand that adopted children have no connection to anyone who looks like them.

As someone who has a chronic illness, pregnancy can be deadly for me. I adopted two children who I love more than life itself. It matters not that they don't share my DNA. They are my children. BUT...there are days when I look at my cousins children or my friends children and I see my cousins and friends in their children's face and I think wow, that is amazing. Then I get that sadness that I will never see myself in another human being. I imagine that can be hard on adoptees as well when growing up.

I have siblings and we used to have contact with my kids sister and I recently thought her amom cut us out of their lives. I have since gotten an email but no pictures and no plans to get together. My kids enjoy seeing her and they have many similar features. I think it's so important for them to remain in touch while growing up. They will be able to guide each other through this situation together and I think that is great.

Not to be mean but it sounds like you are a bit bitter about the other family getting the child. I do think that the siblings should have been placed together but now that that didn't happen, I do think visitation would be in their best interest. It does not have to be often but I think it is important.

As far as telling a child they are adopted. I think that should start as soon as kids can talk. I have read and heard that it is best for kids to just always "know" that they are adopted. They should not just be sat down and told one day as that will probably be a shock.

And as far as your laundry list of the what your child's bio mom has done to make her a horrible person... what difference does that make? My kids know on an age appropriate level that their mom had some problems she had to work out but that does not matter to them. They still want to see pictures and talk about her, even though they have not ever spent any time with her and we do not have contact. One day you will tell your child the facts about her bio moms life and how she came into care. People make mistakes. People can change. Don't worry about the future now.

[Longing2bMom]

Originally Posted by KarynB

Longin2bMOM - I think your situation is very different. You had the choice to know your family, and then choose who to have relationships. Children don't choose adoption, we choose it for them, and then they need to live with the consequences of that. Blanket statements like "DNA doesn't matter" (to me) never work - to some it matters very much. To some it doesn't matter. Since this LO is only 21 months who knows if it will matter to her, but why not have the relationship/contact in place so she can make the choice later?

Actually, it's not all that different. I didn't have a choice to know my family. I had to see them as part of my father's visitation (which made no sense since he was NEVER home while I was there). At first, I had conflicted feelings because I felt I was supposed to love them since they were my siblings, but yet I also felt like they were strangers. I wanted to have the close relationship with them that I had with my other siblings (and that they had with each other), but it was impossible to build any kind of real sibling relationship given the limited contact. In the end, I just ended up being indifferent to it. It was something I had to do and really didn't care one way or the other. When my father's family moved away and we lost contact, it didn't bother me at all.

I don't want anyone to get the idea that I think it's harmful for siblings to have contact. I don't. But neither do I think it is necessary (if there is not already a bond). I think each parent needs to make their own choice about what is best for their children. This is what I think the OP is trying to do - decide what is best for HER child.

[kakuehl]

The children I raised first met their older half-brother 4 years ago. They had known of his existence since they were in their teens. My daughter commented after our meeting that she had expected the day to be awkward but had found it to be very comfortable. I don't know if you would say they had an instant bond or not, all I know is that they have behaved like siblings ever since. I think it does reflect well on D's upbringing, btw, but he's been the big brother to both his siblings. (They are all in their 30s now.) What excites me personally is that he is finally going to meet his other sibling (half-brother, son of his bdad). That will happen this week and frankly, I'm praying they have a good meeting and relationship too. BTW, none of this has changed his relationship with the two sisters he was raised with.